Help! I need support.

[longtire]

Oh I'm feeling really low right now.  I've been trying to get some support through church, but al they have is "we believe all marriages are saveable and we work to restore the marriage and bring the spouses closer together" stuff.  I feel so invalidated by that.  I haven't found anyone around here who understands this kind of verbal abuse.  Plus I called and left a message Friday that I wasn't continuing to see my T.  I haven't heard anything back from him, so I'm not sure if he got the message yet, he used to be out Fridays.

I feel all alone with this right now.  I can't seem to find anyone in the flesh who knows what I've been going though.  I can't seem to find anyone who cares more about me that whether I am following God's inarguable law.

I have put off getting a place to live until Monday when I talk to the lawyer.  I know that it sounds better if I could say that I'll stay and fight for the marriage, but I feel so alone with this that I don't knopw what to do but try to  find some space and time where I can just try to accept and support myself in the face of all this.

I'm reading The Verbally Abusive Relationship right and I feel some peace and acceptance with that.  I identify with so much in this book.  It feels like there is someone out there who has been through this.  In my brain I know that there are people who suffer much worse things with rape and physiacl abuse and who never escape, but this is bad enough to bring me to my knees.  I feel that its even worse because I'm a man nad men aren't abused, right?  Even in this book the author claims that hsi is predominantly a sexist phenonema and men are almost always the abusers.  All this makes me question if I am actually the abuser and I'm too bad/evil/clueless/abusive to realize it.  Am I insane?  Have I totally misinterpreted everything, even though my experience as the partner of a verbally abusive person is prefectly described in this book?  I will keep reading.

Eveyone says find a good T.  How do I do that?  How do I find someone who will really care about me and understand what this has done to me?  the place I'm in this morning tells me I DO need a helpful T to get though this.  I will keep looking.

I could use any word of support, kindness, spitiual support, love, caring, understainding, absolution, pity, etc. right now.  This place is my resource when I fall so low.

[Anonymous]

Hi longtire,

Unfortunately churches and other religious insts. are the last place to find support for ending a marriage. Even if the marriage sucks and is miserable. That's just not their bag. (duh, right?)

I think you may be extremely upset because you need a therapist and don't have one. You may wish to go back to this therapist or hope he calls so you can get some therapy, no matter how poor it is. That would be natural.

Men are abused by women all the time. It's just that most men don't admit to it. Everyone knows that men are abused. I mean everyone with some common sense. Don't go to that place of second guessing.

P.S. You don't have to move out if you're panicking.

Anyway I just opened my AOL IM thing and you can contact me at vidalia1111 if you want.

bunny

[Stormchild Guesting]

((((longtire))))

I'm sorry your church isn't helping. I've found many churches to be very hostile, or at the very least, unwelcoming, merely because I am a single woman under 90 and not hideous beyond belief...

They aren't all like this, but it's hard to go looking for one when you feel terrible, as I know you do now.

There's a fellow named Jeff VanVonderen who is a minister and has helped people who have found church environments unsupportive or even abusive. Hang on and I'll see if I can find a link for his stuff:

http://www.spiritualabuse.com/index.shtml

This might help some and it does point to other links that could also help. I wish you had some support right up close and personal just now -- so don't feel bad about going online for it.

((((longtire)))) praying for you.

[mum]

I agree with Bunny,  Longtire, in general, a church organization won't support ending a marriage.  It's a matter of having all your eggs in one basket.  I don't anymore, as I know any one organization, religious or otherwise can't be the answer to all my questions.

I know people who find great support and comfort in religion, and I feel such joy for them, and certainly mean no disrespect.  I have not had the same experience, and partly because I don't subscribe to the "stay together no matter what" philosophy many religious organizations adhere to. (even though the Catholic church I grew up in would have supported my own breakup because my ex was having "relations" outside the marriage).
Marriages are man made...and thus faulty by nature.  Religions are full of humans as well, and human fault.  That's ok.  It  occurs to me that the folks who can do the church thing understand this and aren't so hardlined as I am.

Anyway, sitting with pain is not a bad idea. Everybody feels pain.  It's not unnatural or something to get rid of right away, perhaps.

Maybe you are in your current "can't find an out/ a helper" situation simply because you have to have to figure that out.  I have found that if I sit still inside that pain, instead of squirming and freaking out and trying to avoid or alleviate it, I can detach after a bit, and look at why it's there. What it's telling me.  It's almost as if I HAVE to let it go...just let it go, flow out of my body and then look at it.  Why? because it's pretty tough to hang on to pain, when you know you are holding onto it yourself!  But you can't let go of something you don't hold in the  first place.  So hold on a bit.  Maybe don't DO anything.  

If you are a man of faith (Christian?) perhaps you could this in a way that my wonderful dad would do when things overwhelmed him: give it to God to deal with for a while. Let go and let God as it were.  I think it's the same concept.  Don't DO anything.  Admit you can't right now and relax.

Honestly, there is help everywhere, (like here) but the only real helper is within you.  YOU are the power to transform this (or God who resides in us, if you will).  Your percieved isolation may be forcing this recognition upon you.
That's what I found out anyway.  It's all good learning (the good stuff hurts the most unfortunately).  I think when we figure this out, we will be free. (still working on it myself, but I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and that is joy in itself).

((((((Lontire)))))))). Hang in there, you're going to be fine.  Repeat after me: "I am strong, I am beautiful, I am worthy of my dreams."

[Joey]

My heart goes out to you.  I, too, have never found someone "in the flesh" that will support or understand what it is like to live with a N, because that N is often cunning and very charming on the outside.  I've tried to find someone for many, many years and always came away more empty and full of guilt than before.  

I've only been a member for a few days, but have found more comfort from these survivors than I ever thought possible, so please keep on posting in.  

Men ARE abused and as stated by "Guest" often embarrassed to admit this because it is somethings seen as a weakness, but be assured women feel that it is a weakness within themselves also because we are supposed to be the nurturers.

Please, please keep reading on the subject.  You can KNOW what abuse you have been given and know it is not you creating the problem. But when you finally begin to feel it in your heart, healing will begin.  I wish I could explain that in a better more understandable way.    

I finally sought out councelors that had been abused themsevles before and were in the psychology business to help others with their own experiences.  I also found it important to find one that was very experienced and not just starting out.  Good luck and I'm praying for you.  Joey

[Jaded911]

Hi Longtire,

The foundation of marriage is to love, honor and cherish your spouse.  What is so honorable about verbally abusing your spouse?  How much does one cherish their loved one when they verbally run them down?  Where the hell is the love when this is all takes place?

Yes I am sure when there are two people who do not verbally, physically, or emotionally abuse during a marriage all problems can be worked out.  But that is not the situation here.

If you can't find a therapist right now that you can openly communicate with, is there a friend or coworker that you trust that you can confide in?  You might get some exceptional input from one or the other.

I also wanted to suggest something else to you.  I used to wonder if I was the one in denial longtire.  I used to think maybe it was me  who couldnt see the fire through the smoke.  I decided to purchase a small tape recorder and set it up so when the moment arose that he became an a-hole, I would click it on and listen back later when it was all said and done with.

I did just that and was horrified and disgusted when I listened to the words that came out of his mouth.  There was no taunting, responding, or recipricating on my part.  The man made me sick from that second on and I was able for the first time to prove that it was him who said all the horrible things that he accused me of saying and doing.

Dig down deep and find some strength to pull you through this valley long.  If your strength is drained then you lean to someone for strength.  Your only other option is to be trapped in that hell for the rest of your life.  It is hard to find the strength when someone zaps you like this but my God the alternative is a life sentence.

[longtire]

Thank you all for the support and for the suggestions.  I talked to bunny for quite a while and am feeling much much better.  I only have a minute but wanted to let you all know:

I'm grateful for this place and all the people here.  There are not many places like it.

I was feeling very emotionally distressed earlier. Thank you for helping get through that.  I haven't got it all figured out by any means, but consider it a full days work if I do nothing else today (not the case).

The God that is in me is loving, accepting, supportive, concerned, forgiving, and protective.  I believe in that God, not the one that other people tell me is setting me up for failure.  I'm standing up for my relationship with God, even if it is only with myself.

I'll post more later.

[vunil]

Hi, Longtire--

I am so sorry you feel so alone!  You really aren't, I promise.  We aren't "in person" but we're all sending you love.

It is probably too much to change right now, but truth is there are religious organizations that are not judgmental about divorce.   I agree it will be tough to find a place that calls itself conservative or fundamentalist that is going to be open to ending a marriage (there may be exceptions!  I'm just generalizing from my own experience). But I go to a christian church that is nothing like what you describe.  The minister himself is divorced.   There are a lot of gay couples who are members;  they live together in a committed relationship and can't legally marry.  There are single people, older people, younger people, etc.  It's a motley cre.  In general, it's an atmosphere expressing utter acceptance of us in all our human-ness.

It might not be your cup of tea, of course.  But it is available.  One place to look is for an interfaith network in your community.  Or, type "liberal religion" in google, along with your town.  "Liberal" in this case does not mean politically liberal, it means having a liberal attitude toward people who violate "laws" like not to get divorced (without in any way saying everyone should immediately go out and do so!).  In my church we have people of all political persuasions.  

Just some ideas.  I do send you warm wishes.  I'm sorry you haven't gotten the support that you need in your church.

[phillip]

Though I never attend longtire, I have always found the Unity Church to be the most deeply people oriented group out there.  I even took astrology classes there years ago.  They weren't teaching it, but allowed others to utilize their space for classes.  Very little dogma, but very heavy on support.  Fellowship is a very big part of their organization.  Just my personal experience.  I admire their openness.

[Chutzbagirl- reply]

Hi Longtire,

I'm so sorry you are having a hard time with no support.  Unfortunately there are a lot of churches that don't "get it".  Fortunately, I am a member of a church that does.  I pray you find a fellowship of people that can help you.  

Sorry if I missed this information, but does your wife have an alcohol or drug problem?  There are some all-men Al Anon or Coda meetings that may be of some value to you.  I love Al Anon - tons of love and wisdom in those rooms.  

Hang in there.  Sometimes God seems so dang far away...But when I continue seeking Him I hear His voice.  My little heart is still so angry it can be hard for me to hear Him above my shouting.  I surrender, but only after a lot of kicking and screaming.  

Prayers your way,

Chutzbagirl

[sleepyhead]

Hang in there Longtire. Of course men are abused, but they often don't want to admit it, and society doesn't want to acknowledge that women can be abusive. When it comes to getting a good therapist I can only share my plan for when I get back home: find a t who is experienced in working with the victims of Ns. Such a t will be able to validate your experience and believe what you are telling him/her. It seems that so many people can't believe our experiences, b/c they have never encountered something similar. Good luck and I'm glad to hear that you're doing better.

[Butterfly]

Hi Longtire

I'm happy to hear that you are feeling better.  I'm lifting you up before the Father.  As I was doing my quiet time I found some verses that have provided me comfort in tough times and I thought of you.   I hope they will be a source of comfort and strength as they are for me...

"He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.  I will say to the Lord, "he is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust." Psalm 91:1-2

"Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from him.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.  My salvation and my honor depend on God; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.  Trust in him at all times, O people; pour out your hearts to him, for God is our refuge."  Psalm 62:5-8

"Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death.  But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.  He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us.  On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us."  II Corinthians 1:9-10

"The Lord is near."  Philippians 4:5b

"And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus."  Phil 4:19

"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.  Are you not much more valuable than they?"  Matthew 6:26

Blessings,
Butterfly

[OR]

Longtire, you will become clear on a choice, hang in there.

Days before I left my H, my D told me of a dream she had.

Her Dad was telling her he was going to talk to GOD. How great it was he had the chance and she would get to talk to God because of him.

Nearby was a little skinny big eared looking human wearing a baggie dipper, sitting  watching laughing..
She said I was talking and was told to stop,because God wanted to talk to my H. How she was mad at me if I would spoil the chance for God to speak with them.

I listen to her, right away I thought Why would GOD, allow my H, such a flesh loving sprit, see him. I told her the skinning guy in the big dipper must be the devil, what a whimp. What a narrsstic thought, beliving you had connections to SEE GOD.

This was my D's dream, feeling the infulance of her N-father.



Your D is growing up fast, she may want to come visit you alot more away for your spouse, having you  a happier person.

Sitting quiet wihout input from outside thoughts, may help, so you hear what is really deep down. Too many thoughts can be a way to keep you from making a choice. You could panic, not sure what recommendation to take.  Allowing you to procrasstinate.

Rules apply to your wife too. She thinks it's YOU with the problem.
You are not following the rules. The rule is you will always lose.
She will never admit to such flaws.

I changed my Username to OR from Onlyrenting. It's shorter and
The life of it's "All your fault"  OR a life with balance.

It's reasonable to ask for balance in your life.
Going on with the Negative more than Positive is over for me.
Think the intention for your life was to have a positive, nurturing, Love, and no need for a T, because you have balance.

Talking with Bunny is a positive thing, she is good to get straight to the problem, I'm sure you would feel better now.


Hang in there, your time will come in just the right time. .....OR

[longtire]

Thank you all for your replies, your support, and your prayers.  I don't know how I would have made it through without your help.  I know I am living my life well because when I call out for help, there are more helping hands than I can use. I would like to share some of the things that I talked about with bunny yesterday.

Thanks Stormchild for the link. This church IS very supportive, I will be loved and not even looked down on no matter what I do.  Unfortunately, their sole focus is on saving marriages, and they don't seem to realize that there is a line beyond which preserving the marriage turns to hating the people involved, instead of loving them.  I was also putting too much stock in what people were saying, instead of going to the source.  I've prayed about this already, I have my answer.  I trust my relationship with God over what anyone else tells me now.  I will listen and not shut them out, but I will also check it out before I agree.  By listening to the people, I was not leaning on the main source of strength and was experiencing the lack of it!  I realized at church this morning that it is not the "leaders" of the church who are most supportive, it is the regular Joe and Jane who know suffering and are the most supportive.

Now confronting this change, part of my reaction was plain fear of my wife and what she will do.  What will she do when she feels like she has nothing left to lose?  My biggest fear is that she will go back even stronger in turning my daughter and other family and friends against me.  I'm praying a lot about this and working on building up my relationship with my daughter every day.  In the end, I can control none of this, so I'll prepare the best I can and then deal with what comes.

There was more about changing some parts of me that have been causing me to fearfully hold on to some shred of hope and not give up no matter what the cost.  I don't feel ready to talk about all of that today.  All of this came up in response to having made my choice.  Call it decision aftermath or pre-action worries.

I talk to the lawyer tomorrow and get advice on what I need to do to protect myself financially without doing anything stupid that could hurt me in the end.  I will take care of that and get a place, hopefully the one I have already picked out.  Then, I just need to wait for a time when my wife is going to be out and make the move.  I already have lists and reminders of what I need to take.  I've been gathering things together so it won't take too much time to throw it all in boxes and get out.  I'll document everything and give my wife a copy so she can't claim I'm hiding anything.  I will also document the house and belongings as they are today so nothing can disappear either.

OR, I didn't hear the description of your D's dream.  I wonder if the pathetic human figure was actually God, laughing at your husbands pride in thinking he was going off to something special, when God is sitting right there, being ignored by him.  "As you do to the least of these you do to me..."  Not sure about this one, just came up.

[OR]

Long, Good luck at the lawyers.

 I'm glad you have made a choice. Making the steps to get things ready to leave will get your mind in the needed direction.

Now that I'm in Dallas, I worry about the lies my H, continues to tell about me.

The fight is on, I can only be ready to defend myself aginst them. The benifits of having him gone, out weigh the trouble. You will have so much more energy to fight the up coming war. One battle at a time, will win the war.  You will be surprized how much energy you have not dealing with the emotional rollercoaster.

I know angels are watching over my D and myself. I have found myself here with amazement and will continue to be positive about the future.

Longtire:

Now confronting this change, part of my reaction was plain fear of my wife and what she will do. What will she do when she feels like she has nothing left to lose? My biggest fear is that she will go back even stronger in turning my daughter and other family and friends against me.

She will have far less energy than you. She appears stronger than you because of your being sucked lifless from an emotional vampire.

Long, this was the Dream: This took place the day before we left CA.
My D was letting me know about the dream, thinking I was the problem, talking too much.

Her Dad was telling her he was going to talk to GOD. How great it was he had the chance and she would get to talk to God because of him.

Nearby was a little skinny big eared looking human wearing a baggie dipper, sitting watching laughing..
She said I was talking and was told to stop,because God wanted to talk to my H. How she was mad at me if I would spoil the chance for God to speak with them.

You think the skinny guy waas GOD...Intresting.

Sending Positive thoughts your way.  OR