Author Topic: What is responsiblity?  (Read 5053 times)

longtire

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What is responsiblity?
« on: May 13, 2005, 05:21:43 PM »
I've been going over affirmations yesterday and today and the word "responsible" keeps cropping up.  On reading these affirmations, they make a lot of sense.  But, I realized that I'm not sure what the word "responsible" really means.  There are a lot of things that are implied, but what does it really mean to be responsible for these things?  Being mindful that my behavior is my choice, not someone else's?  That I am culpable for my choices, words and behavior?  That I make my choices willing to accepting the consequences of those decisions, words and actions?  If I am responsible, what does it really look and sound like?  Likewise, what does it look and sound like if I am not responsible?  Maybe most importantly, what does "responsible" look like when my needs or choices conflict with someone else's?

Here are some of the affirmations I have found with the word "responsible" in them.  You don't have to agree with these affirmations, they are just some examples I had handy:
    You are not
responsible for anyone else (except your children).

You are responsible for how you think and feel.  You can change these, but it is very hard work.

It's crucial to develop a balanced sense of responsibility.  This means accepting the consequences for what you do and refusing to accept the consequences for what someone else does.  (It also means owning my feelings but not taking responsibility for others' feelings.)

Give others the responsibility for their own beliefs, decisions, feelings, and thoughts without feeling guilty, anxious, or selfish.  Feeling responsible for other adults often burdens me, and blocks ther growing self-confidence and self-respect.
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longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

daylily

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Re: What is responsiblity?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2005, 06:27:51 PM »
Quote from: longtire
There are a lot of things that are implied, but what does it really mean to be responsible for these things?  Being mindful that my behavior is my choice, not someone else's?  That I am culpable for my choices, words and behavior?  That I make my choices willing to accepting the consequences of those decisions, words and actions?  If I am responsible, what does it really look and sound like?  Likewise, what does it look and sound like if I am not responsible?  Maybe most importantly, what does "responsible" look like when my needs or choices conflict with someone else's?


It's interesting to me that "responsible" evolved from the Old French and, before that, the Latin that is more accurately translated as "respondable"--that is, "called upon to respond or give account."  I try to keep that in mind when I'm tempted to overuse the word, or the idea, of "responsibility."

For example, I can never say, "I am responsible for my feelings."  Emotions and feelings rise out of my subconscious--breaking the surface and then, just as quickly, returning to the depths from which they came.  I can't say that I'll ever be able to explain, or account for, how I feel.  I can only account for how I let those feelings affect other people.

In that sense, I view the idea of "responsibility" as primarily external.  We are "responsible" for what we say and do, not what we think and feel.  Even in the case of a parent/child relationship, is the parent "responsible" for the child's personality?  I don't think so, and my experience of this site tends to support that--so many people here have survived emotional abuse that could have turned them into monsters.  Rather, we collectively mourn, and hold others accountable for, how we were (or are) treated.  Our abusers are responsible for the behavior they showed us, and by extension for their failure to understand and manage the feelings that gave rise to that behavior.  But I honestly don't know if they're responsible for the feelings themselves.

I think that "N-survivors" tend to over-claim responsibility, because the N him/herself claims none, and pushes off his or her responsibilities onto those around them, creating victims.  One of the challenges of being an "N-survivor," I think, is to recognize where one's responsibility ends.  I've spent many years believing that I was responsible for everybody's unhappiness, and therefore everybody's happiness.  It's a losing proposition.

What does responsibility look like?  I think that it looks like a good faith effort to act both consciously and considerately towards self and others.  It looks like refusing to be manipulated into confusing responsibility with love.  I can love someone without assuming their burden of responsibility.  I can respect their needs without compromising my own.  And, in the hard work of day-to-day relations, I can always remember to ask myself if this is the battle worth fighting, keeping in mind that sometimes the answer will be "Yes."

Everybody's needs conflict with everybody else's, all the time.  Relationships are all about compromise, I think--giving up some of our inborn desire to dominate for the greater benefit of connection.  I try to ask myself whose claim is more legitimate; I try to examine my own motives as well as my opponent's.  But sometimes, it comes down to something you can't reason your way out of.  Sometimes you have to put yourself first, knowing that not only will the other person be hurt, but his or her sense of injury will be completely reasonable.  You can only explain yourself, do what you need to do, and recognize that the relationship will have to take the consequences.  "N-survivors" are, to my mind, always afraid of losing the relationship because they don't see themselves as having value in it.  The relationship is a gift, an act of charity:  We wouldn't want to belong to any clubs that would have us as members.  But part of the long journey out of the shadow of narcissism is to challenge those beliefs.

I imagine you're feeling a lot of conflicting emotions right now, Longtire:  relief, exhilaration, guilt, exhaustion, doubt.  As I said above, I don't think you're "responsible" for those emotions.  But I do hope you won't let them talk you out of retreating.  That would be a choice, and one I think you might regret.

Sorry for the ramble.  I hope you're doing well.

Best,
daylily

bunny as guest

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2005, 06:41:51 PM »
Very articulate post, daylily. You call that rambling??   :)

To me, the idea of "we're responsible for our thoughts and feelings" goes like this. We may allow ourselves to have distorted thoughts, knowing or sensing they are distorted, and not change them. We may allow ourselves to wallow in resentment and anger, knowing we could try to get out of it, but we don't. It's not really about spontaneous feelings arising, but how we choose to manage them. Because even if we don't say anything, our thoughts and feelings could manifest in ways that screw things up. Basically we can choose how long to stay with a thought or feeling.

bunny

mudpuppy

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2005, 07:39:55 PM »
I hope I'm not just in a contrary mood today. (see Chutz's thread bunny:oops: )

But I absolutely feel responsible for my wife and her happiness. If I treat her like a punching bag she's probably going to be quite unhappy. If I treat her like a queen she will more than likely be relatively happy. Of course some things out of my control can make her unhappy, and obviously I am not reponsible for those.
The same with my thoughts, for the most part. I can mostly control what I think. Thinking is mostly volitional. Feelings however are mostly not.
I even think I am considerably responsible for my kid's personality. A lot of it is genetic no doubt, but after all they are called Personality Disorders and most people seem to think they are substantially produced by how a child is raised. If I treat my daughter like cr#p, she's going to have a pretty good chance of having a cr#ppy personality.
Quote
What does responsibility look like? I think that it looks like a good faith effort to act both consciously and considerately towards self and others.

Perfect, Daylily, the quote feature was made for your writing. I wish I could ramble like you. 8)

mud

Brigid

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2005, 08:15:02 PM »
Daylily,
I loved what you wrote and the way you wrote it.  I wish I could ramble like that.

Quote
N-survivors" are, to my mind, always afraid of losing the relationship because they don't see themselves as having value in it. The relationship is a gift, an act of charity: We wouldn't want to belong to any clubs that would have us as members. But part of the long journey out of the shadow of narcissism is to challenge those beliefs.


I can relate to this and I guess is the root of my great fear of abandonment.

Is there a point when we can stop being "responsible" adults? :wink:  (I hope I'm getting close  :lol: )

Brigid

write

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I have some Buddhist words staring at me
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2005, 08:20:23 PM »
right now:

By ourselves is evil done
By ourselves we pain endure
By ourselves we cease from wrong
By ourselves become we pure.

No one saves us but ourselves
No one can and no one may
We ourselves must walk the path
Buddhas merely show the way.

***

I've often thought about all the bad things which happen- and how much is my karma etc.

Now I'm at peace with it: it's not my fault if I wasn't enlightened enough or in a position to change it!

I try to attain a degree of self-reliance...but I also know that leaning on others and sharing life is important.

I feel like there are many wisdoms but no one true way. We all have to find what works for us, and confidently discard things that don't. And above all- be gentle and kind to ourselves, especially whilst going through a life problem where no one else is.

OR

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2005, 11:42:33 PM »
Hey Long, I hope all is going good for you.

Responsiblity walks a fine line between what's healthy and what's not.
No doubt I have found myself in the unhealthy parts of responsiblity.
Choices we make in life, taking anothers life and making choices for them
then being able to live with a happy heart about a decision.

Like a virus you might catch, the next time you're able to fight off the virus, you now have antibodies you never had before.
we shelter or take responsiblity for others  to fight off the bad things. letting a little pain or life building skills is for the best.

Let others take responsibility (get in trouble, suffer the consequenses)  Allow them to grow a little into a stronger person.
Learn who is a liability or Asset. (balance) I know now I'm not equipt to solve those liabilities and will look for those who are an asset to my life.

I wish I had been more wise, the people who are a liability will be a drain and will need others to take all the responsibility. N-s look younger than most of their peers because they have no responsibility it's everyone else who must take the burden. Having concern for another and how they would feel can be who you are but easily truned into a liability.

I find taking a leap of faith, you could be wrong but must make the choice based on all you know and understand.

It could be wise to get advise from others or pray about it so when you do make a choice you feel good that you were not reckless so you don't second guess your choice.
You should be able to live with your choice take responsibility for that choice. Be happy about the efforts to take charge of your decision.

Just some thoughts.  OR

longtire

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2005, 10:17:34 PM »
daylily, bunny, mudpuppy, brigid, OR, thank you for your insightful replies.  I am always grateful to get the varied, but all valid points of view here.  You each have something unique to offer.  Thank you for sharing. :D

I jotted this off quickly last week on the way out of work.  I wish I'd taken more time to expand a bit.  I think that I do act with responsibility much of the time.  Sometimes I take on TOO MUCH responsibility for others.  A lot of times though the hardest part is deciding which of conflicting responsibilities to pursue.  In the past, I almost always erred on the side of taking care of someone else hoping to be cared for in return.  That hasn't worked out the best for me.   :?  Still, I'm not sure what to put in its place.  To be honest, the only reason I was able to move out recently was because it was an all or nothing situation for me.  I could no longer function, therefore I HAD to make that choice.  I don't want to always anything.  I don't want to always err on the side of taking care of others.  I don't want to always wait until there is no other choice to avoid haveing to actually make a choice.

How do you make the balance between taking care of yourself and taking care of important others in your life?  (Or maybe even complete strangers. :) )

Dang it, I feel like I'm missing something on a higher level than my Q, but that's the best way I know to phrase it today.  There's probably some zen or buddist saying about already knowing the answer when you ask the right questions.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Anonymous

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2005, 11:05:05 PM »
Quote from: longtire
How do you make the balance between taking care of yourself and taking care of important others in your life?  (Or maybe even complete strangers. :) )


I ask myself whether they will be fine if I take care of myself. Usually the answer is, "They will be fine."

bunny

mum

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2005, 11:16:03 PM »
perfect, Bunny.  They will be fine.  Something I had to learn as a mother.  

When I was a lifeguard in college, we knew to leave a victim who was attacking us.....or else we would go down too.  In an airplane, we put our own oxygen masks on first and then help others, or we won't be much help either.

For those of us whose belief systems were so screwed up as to think the above self preservation tactics are selfish.....it's hard to learn... but essential.

longtire

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2005, 11:51:13 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Quote from: longtire
How do you make the balance between taking care of yourself and taking care of important others in your life?  (Or maybe even complete strangers. :) )


I ask myself whether they will be fine if I take care of myself. Usually the answer is, "They will be fine."

bunny

Oh, that's good!  I still feel like I have to make things good for other people.  Just letting them be fine on their own.  It's so simple, but that's really a revelation to me. :shock: In a sense, it doesn't seem like a choice to me.

If I want to be taken care of, I have to take care of others and make it good for them first. :evil:

Looking at this statement, I hardly know which fallacy to start fixing.  I am an adult.  I take care of myself.  Others can take care of me too (like here), but I am the only one ever responsible for taking care of myself.  Taking care of other people does not mean that they will take care of me.  Taking care of other people instead of letting them do it prevents them from learning and doing it for themselves the way they need to.  They will be fine.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

d'smom

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2005, 12:21:07 AM »
Quote from: longtire
Sometimes I take on TOO MUCH responsibility for others.  A lot of times though the hardest part is deciding which of conflicting responsibilities to pursue.  In the past, I almost always erred on the side of taking care of someone else hoping to be cared for in return.  That hasn't worked out the best for me.   :?  Still, I'm not sure what to put in its place. ....

How do you make the balance between taking care of yourself and taking care of important others in your life?



hi longtire. hope the house is well.  im not sure if this will work for you.. but its a very different viewpoint, so it might be useful. to me, the reponsibility thing is about respect.

i dont like having other people take away my power, by doing things for me that i should do myself... that feels like disrespect.

so i do not take on responsibility for others - i hope anyway - becuase to me thats disrespecting them. i try to give them the same respect i would want for myself..... the same freedom.... i dont want people edging into my space, so i dont edge into theirs.

maybe there is something in your taking care of others that comes from wanting to be taken care of, (which is kind of what you said ) or other reasons leading you to imagine its what others want or its whats expected.

so maybe you can logically look at those things and deconstruct them,  thinking, 'would i want that'? would i want someone else taking away my power like that? is this something i would be taking from that person, if i didnt let them do it for themselves?  and if you wouldnt want someone doing that for you, maybe it would be easier for you to stop doing it for others, and rebuild the boundaries between you and others into a more comfortable place that respects both you and them more. gives them more power, gives you more power.

your moving from relationships based on powerlessness into relationships based on more personal power.....  the more you feel personally empowered, i think the more you will naturally want to let other people have their own power too.

those are my thoughts. hope things are going well.
d's mom

d'smom

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What is responsiblity?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2005, 12:25:50 AM »
oops, then you just wrote everything i said!

d'oh !