Anxiety, anxiety, PANIC

[longtire]

mum, beatifully put! &    It never ceases to amaze and reassure me that even though we all have vastly different situations and personalities, the way forward is essentially the same for all of us.  A million unique ways to get into bad situations and only one way to get out (through), so we can all help each other out.

[Anonymous]

How do I keep doing that?

I'm sure you are a much more valuable person than he has tried convinced you.  You don't have to believe him.

[Anonymous]

Sorry Longtire:

I must have been posting at the same time as you.

And Mum, you're attitude is what I see as being the strength/power that helps you "through it".  You are an inspirational example for all of us.  (((Mum)))

GFN

[dogbit]

Mum,  I love your word "nidiot".  Now I can just call him a nidiot and still be in the bounds of polite conversation.  And I know he's trying to get to me through my children.  When I left, I went 90% no contact for self-preservation and he went 100% no contact with the kids.  All my kids are adults, by the way, legally.  Two are in college and he would pay their tuition but wouldn't provide any financial information so they could get their financial aid.  So, and I'm telling this just in case anyone else is in the same situation, my kids used me as "custodial parent" and  they used my financial information which was dismal and received a significant amount more than they were receiving.  But both schools called me and asked how I could spend more on my basic needs than I brought in and I just told them the situation.  Neither school seemed surprised.  I think this happens a lot.       And it was absolutely the scariest thing I have ever done also.  I don't want to ask you anything too personal but you mean you keep having to go back to court even after you're divorced!!!!  My attorney is asking for a lump sum payout because she knows this jerk will fight alimony and that's fine with me and, again, there are no custody issues.  But it still has them afraid.  They always knew who he was and were probably in less denial than I but to experience directed to them personally has them scared.  They just don't want to be near him.   Thanks again...it's sad to know we're scared but it's nice to know I'm not alone....Dogbittles

[mum as guest]

Hey, Dogbittles!....and all.  I'm always happy when my meaning comes through my writing (and always surprised,considering how I write! )

So, for perspective, Dogbittles, my ex nidiot calls after being overseas for work, to ask if while he was away, did I remind the children that he was away and that he had missed seeing them for his usual weekend......(he currently gets every weekend)?  Because he was surprised THEY chose NOT to see him extra time this weekend (now that he is back).  After falling off my chair laughing to myself, I asked him if he was aware of how old his children were (they are teenagers).

I have to deal with him because a year and a half ago, I wanted to move to another state to be with my dying mother, large extended family and fiance (I had a higher paying job, great schools, etc....and Ih ave no family here).  He was on an extended job overseas (for 4 months) which he does frequently. Long story short, he won his case, and stopped me from leaving (well, not ME, just the kids from leaving....right, like I would leave without them).
Now he is taking me back to court to reduce his child support. His arguement? He has NO CHOICE but stopping the work he does because it takes him away from his children, and I won't let him make up the time.....and now he makes less than me (I am a teacher!)   (its been in two court orders, that HE agreed to, that there is no "make up time").  

Anyhow, it just bugs the heck out of him, that his children, who he is used to manipulating and scaring, could be bold enough to choose to follow the approved schedule and not WANT to make up visitation time with him at his house.   I let my kids choose, HE wants them to have NO voice (or choose what he wants only).   Honestly, if they wanted to be over there, I would encourage them.

These NIDIOTS are the ultimate victims, are they not?   "Bullly-babies" is another good term for them!!!

Anyway, that's a bit of my history....but I am not depressed about my life at all. (I was).  I found a way out of the bad energy, and so will you.

These guys usually get worse, the more "free" of them we become, but then....who gives a d***?  Let 'em get mad.  Maybe he will get so mad, his head will explode like those "fembots" in Austin Powers!  Anyhow, anger is HIS trademark, not mine.

Hope you are having a good day, bittles (can I call you bittles?)
MUM

[Anonymous]

dogbit:

I have come to realize I still am hearing the "tapes" that my N father played.  He was very hypercritical.  Nothing was good enough.  His demanding that nothing but perfection was good enough has been passed on to my brothers.  Either I was to fat or to something.  I still impose these tapes and if I do not do things perfectly, anxiety and depression set in.  I realize this is ridiculous.  It is as  you stated anything that I do or perform, fear and anxiety set in.  The anxiety and fear are a result of what happened when my father was displeased.  I was yelled at, demeaned, made to do chores beyond what was reasonable, was shamed.  I was not allowed to voice my opinion.   The result:  anxiety and depression if things are not in perfect order.  I impose this on myself, but I know where it comes from.

To a certain extent I still feel as if I am in prison.  Unable to turn one way or the other.

I remember having a dream as a child, I think I was about 5.  I remember I was dressed in a clown's suit.  I was lying under the house in this suit and it was very dark and dank.  The most terrifying part of it was if I moved or try to turn or inch from  under the house, I was stuck with pins all over.  Any which way I moved, I was stuck with pins.  I remember waking  up crying, I was sleeping in bed with my mother.  It was a very terrifying dream.  This should tell you exactly how things were for me as a child.  Patz

[mum as guest]

Patz: wow.  your father's abuse and your childhood dream........chilling and terrifying.  I am in awe that you are now such a centered, caring person. (I need an emoticon for my jaw still on the floor).  How is it you have come so far?

[Anonymous]

Patz,
I'm sorry your father was not worthy of raising you.
But I'm proud of what a sweetheart you are now.
Especially when you're talking about fighting for your son.
You took all of your father's lessons and threw them in the trash where they belong and made yourself into the parent your son needed. That's some kind of strength.
((((Patz))))

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Mum and Mudpup:

I do not know why as I got older why I saw all this N behaviour as not "acceptable".  I can only say that my maternal grandfather helped to rear me when my father abandoned our family when I was 4.  Just thinking about the ages, this dream must have occurred before my father abandoned the family, or just after he remarried my mother.  Either I was 4 or 8-9, in the aforementioned dream.  I must have been 8 to remember this.

At any rate my maternal grandfather always took care of all the grandchilden.  Even though he was alcoholic, he did keep us fed, housed, and clothed.  There was about 10 of us living in a 3 bedroom, 1 bath house.  This included adults and children.  There was no other place to go.  I remember he bought us nice bunny rabbits for Easter.  He made cages for the rabbits so we could really take care of them and feed them appropriately.  He always cared for animals and plants in a loving way.  I suppose he has been my saving grace on how to love people and treat people.  More importantly when my mother remarried my N father (my N father hated my grandfather) going back into the N environment made by ezcema extremely bad.  In fact at one point they had to send me back to my grandparents when I was about 13 for about a week or two.  At that time my grandfather treated my ezcema as it was mostly all over my face, arms and legs.  He would bath my skin with cool boric acid crystals (which you can use on ezcema) on a daily basis.  This was he way of loving and caring for me.  So I would have to say this was the stark contrast that I had to choose from.  Even though he was alcoholic (he eventually kicked the habit) he was able to do this for me.

Just being able to relate these last two posts have brought the signifance of what I went through.  Sometimes I tend to down play the "oh things really weren't that bad) but they were.  It was not so much physcial abuse but the mental abuse.  My N father was a master at "mental games".  I am trying to remember but at one time, I did confront him with his behaviour and it was over some issue that he had bamboozled my mother over.  Maybe as I remember these things I will remember what happened.  At any rate when I confronted him, he turned white as a sheet and just about ran out of the room.  This is when I took my power back from him.  It is interesting I cannot for the life of me remember the issue.  It is bound to be important and probably painful.  Does this happen to anyone else?

So being strong was not an option.  I had to be mentally tough to out last him.  My mother was not that strong.  She had a "nervous breakdown" when I was about 16 and I had to take care of my two other brothers.  She would black out from the anxiety and eventually would become psychotic.  She was so ill at one point when she eveutally would go back home to my grandfathers, that it was my Uncle who recognized that she belonged on a psych ward.  My father was no where around. She stayed there for about six week.  Which in retrospect is a long time for the early 60's .  I think part of the therapy was that my father was to go in with my mother.  Needless to say that fell through.  He didn't even want to pay the bill.  I remember that money was tight but you still can make arrangements and pay your bill off.  I remember his family did not even lift a finger to come over to help while my mum was in the hospital.  I did at that time confront my Aunt (my dad's sister) who was overbearing, demanding, an N about the treatment of my mother.  I was only 16 at the time.  Needless to say she did not fool with me much after that time.

So this gives you just a little backdrop on my childhood and teen years and the experiences.  I can only say that my grandmother taking me to church and I do mean to church every Wednesday night and Sunday was
literally my Salvation.  The influences of my grandfathers personality, helped to me to make it through.

I have been told on more than one occasion what an emotionally strong person I am.  I tend to minimize that but I guess it is true.  I remember when my n husband was so sick with congestive heart failure, the doctor taking me aside and telling what an emotionally strong indiviudal I had to be.  I asked why he thought that.  He replied "because of how you are dealing with your sick and very difficult husband and also taking care of an autistic child.  It takes a very strong person to do that."  I tend to minimize this.......as in so just what are the other options?  Curl up in a ball and die?  No, each problem is a challenge.  Most problems have solutions.  Given enough time problems do resolve themselves.  I  have tended to try to get them to resolve themselves in the best possible way and to learn from my mistakes.

If this can help any one, I hope it does.  You can make it, if I can.

Much love,
Patz

[Brigid]

Dogbit (I like bittles better), Patz & Mum,

I am just catching up with this thread and I must say that my heart breaks for all of you.  I can relate to some of it, i.e. Patz with the n father who was so hypercritical.  It is hard to stop those tapes of worthlessness that run in your head.  In my case, I had my grandmother who was my only saving grace.

But, thank God, I cannot relate to the issues with the kids.  My H just has very little to do with his and I am so grateful for that.  It means that they have me as their primary parental role model and I think I'm doing a damn good job.  Its the one accomplishment in my life that I am truly proud of and willing to take much credit for.  Being a mother has been my one true passion in life.

Fortunately, he has also agreed (after much posturing and fighting legally) to pay me a fair sum of money for a reasonable length of time.  He did not want to pay maintenance because I could then take him back to court in the future when he will be making considerably more money and get my fair share.  We agreed on a straight cash settlement per month, and I get paid regardless of remarriage.  I think the main reason for his finally agreeing to be fair financially, was to protect his reputation (what's left of it) for the sake of his business (I think his family put the pressure on too to protect their standing in the community).

Anyway, I didn't mean to start making this response about me, but to say how sorry I am for what all of you are going through and I am keeping you all in my prayers.

(((((((bittles)))))))), (((((((((mum))))))))), (((((((((patz)))))))))

Brigid

[dogbit]

"Bullly-babies"

Great description!  That's really how they act.  I've read that a naracissist's development is arrested at age 7 or so but I really think it is around 2 years of age.  And, I'm not trying to be funny!  

but I am not depressed about my life at all. (I was). I found a way out of the bad energy, and so will you.

Thank you...I really need to hear that some days.  And it was bad energy not bad "me".  I'm getting that now.

These guys usually get worse, the more "free" of them we become.

Ha!  Yes, I think you're right at least in observing his more recent actions.  I talked to his sister from whom he has been "estranged" for ten years after locating her on a web site dedicated to finding people who have listed phone numbers.  (Since he didn't like her, I could not talk to her while still married...).  She was glad to hear from me but her first words were:  "You mean he's still alive!  I thought he would stroke out long ago from so much anger".  She had walked away from him because  she was afraid of his anger.  Since he had to stop drinking, and since I left, he's like in a 24/7 rage....This is so awful but whenever I hear an ambulance siren, I am somewhat hopeful........Forgive me, Lord...

Dogbittles or just bittles...

[dogbit]

But, thank God, I cannot relate to the issues with the kids. My H just has very little to do with his and I am so grateful for that. It means that they have me as their primary parental role model and I think I'm doing a damn good job. Its the one accomplishment in my life that I am truly proud of and willing to take much credit for. Being a mother has been my one true passion in life.


Brigid...good for you.  My stbx had very little to do with mine from the day they were born and I was the primary caretaker and I know I was a good mother and I love to say that because I still have a lot of problems giving myself credit for what I have done well...but I am getting over that   .  My kids were "adults" when I left and they actually all encouraged me to leave...It was a mixed blessing.  I probably could not have done it without their support but I was so sad that they knew who he really was and is.  I thought I was keeping a lid on everything....denial, denial, denial... Bittles

[dogbit]

Patz,

Thank you for sharing that story.  Your Grandfather was you life-line and by standing up to your Father, you learned the spunk that helped you advocate for your son.  You know, you say your Grandfather was an alcoholic but he still was loving and responsible.  Maybe he was self-medicating which I don't blame him...jeepers, he must have had to really gather every ounce of strength each day to keep on taking care of his family.  But it made me remember something my Dad told me.  He said everyone on his side of the family (they were all kind of strange in different ways....lots of bi-polar stuff) drank until they were around 50 and then they all stopped.  Doesn't that sort of say that by the time you are 50, some of the bad guys have died or left or you were able to leave and then you didn't have to drink anymore!  Just a thought and I'm glad you had him.  Dogbit

[Anonymous]

Bittles:

Thanks.  I loved my grandfather very much.  I think he was self medicating inasmuch when he stopped he had a great deal of nerves and anxiety.  He was also about 55 at the time.  It is very strange I can tell you the date he passed away  May 14, 1983 about 10 AM but I cannot tell you the date  my father died.  He died sometime in June of 2000.  My grandfather was 72 and I really can't say how old my father was maybe 71.  In other words I cannot tell you some vital things about my father without looking it up, on the other hand I know exactly about my grandfather.  So this should tell you the significance my grandfather played not only in my life, but also in the lives of his other grandchildren.
I remember times if someone came to his house, if they were hungary, he would set them down on the back steps of the house and share what we had with them.  He would buy shoes for people who were down on their luck.   I am sure the responsibility of taking care of us all made him drink.  He stopped drinking when he retired as many of the grandkids had moved on.  There were still about 3 grandkids left at home when he retired.

I still have pictures on my dresser of the old home place, my grandfather.  No pictures of my n father or his family.  They do not exist.
Never minimize love over quanity.  Love wins every time.  We did not have much but the one thing we did have at my grandfather's house, you simply cannot buy. My n father and his family where such losers.  Losers in every sense of the word.  What mattered to them leaves no legacy, no memories.

Patz

[dogbit]

Patz...I'm crying a few tears with you.  We have very similar backgrounds and you have described it beautifully.  Bittles