acapella and the other n-partners

[Anonymous]

You can have any thought or feeling you want Herm, I think all of you should , I never said you shouldnt. I am just upset that something like this upset the board like it has and that it wasnt handled well by either party. My whole "voice" on this whole situation has been more to the liking of "lets pick our battles" instead of immediately getting up in arms over something that you yourself didnt really want us to know much about or you would have explained your leaving better, right? But heck, you can do whatever you want and I hope that everything works out well for all of us and that we are happy no matter where we go or stay.

Hope, I didnt say for you to "have a nice life"....I dont know what you are talking about unless you are referring to what I said to you when I then obviously noted to you that I was joking....?!
I am not trying at all to urge you to more anger only to see if there would be any way you might come back to the board as well as stay here since you like it so much....but I can see that you dont want to do that so I will leave it alone. Lisa

[Anonymous]

Bobbie,
I am so sorry about all of the problems you are having right now. I know it must be very sad as well as just a big pain in the ass with your father being in the shape he's in.

I hope things look up for you very soon and that YOU yourself start to feel better, I didnt know you werent well. The last thing you need is all this crap, huh? Take care of yourself and come back to us at NPD or stay here and talk , but please go somewhere to vent things if you need to.
I'll be thinking of you, xo Lisa

[I_am_mine]

Jaded, I haven't made any decision about the other board yet.  Yes, I'm going to hang around and read and learn - you're right, it seems there are many good people there, that's what attracted me to it in the first place.  I just don't think I'm in a good spot right now to decide to leave, but I'm not real comfy about contributing, either.  I'll work it out, the board will go on either way, and I think it's just best for me to not make an impulsive decision.

Lisa, thanks for your concern and support.  I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to turn this whole thing into "about me" - I just wanted people to know that there were reasons (in addition to me just kinda "popping up" in the midst of all this) that I felt I'd said my piece and would disappear back into the woodwork.

Like I said, no one pressured me to "go to bat", what I did was my own choice, and I know everyone understands if I step out now.  

Don't worry, if I need to vent, I usually do - but sometimes I don't have the energy or the motivation.  Then when I do get the energy, I usually come out with a "super-rant"!  Gotta learn to modify that process a bit, I think!

I'm just feeling badly because it seemed you all felt part of a helpful community, and now some good people are "displaced" - not a good situation when people are looking for help and support.

OK - everyone try to be good to yourselves, and I'm actually going to try to get some sleep tonight....   All I can say, as an outsider looking in, is that it sounds like you've all learned a lot from this experience, and tho it wasn't a positive experience, what you've learned will benefit you.

Sweet dreams to all,

bobbie

[Anonymous]

Bobbie,

Thanks for all you've done. I'm sorry you have all this other stuff to deal with, and I hope you are going to be okay.

Bunny (love that name) - no thanks needed, I didn't do anything but state my feelings.  As for the other stuff - well, I don't know anyone who doesn't have "other stuff", it's all part of life.  Sometimes I just spew...and more stuff comes out than I intend.

And thank you for your concern, I'll be ok.  I mean, I have to be, right?  That's my main goal in life, at this late stage, is to be as "okay" as I can be.

From what I understand, you got a pretty raw deal in all this, and I'm very sorry for that.  I'd read many of your posts, and have a lot of respect and admiration for you, and it sounds like you were shoved aside like old garbage.  No one should be treated that way, and I feel bad that it happened.

We all deal with the things we have to deal with, right?  And I'm convinced if we all keep working at it, we'll all be much more "okay" as time goes on.

bobbie

[I'm_mine]

oh, nuts, I got signed off, too lazy to log in again.

Just noticed that at 12:35 I said i was going to sleep...now it's 3:38 and the alarm rings at 6:30!

Disclaimer:  Anything I said previously that was stupid or goofy is due to chronic sleep deprivation!  Yeah....that works!

bobbie

[I'm_mine]

Unbelievable!  I thought I just took too long to post or something and got logged off, but when I looked at the post to bunny...well, i guess i never logged in to begin with!

sleep...sleep...sleep...

bobbie

[hope2003]

Lisa: the "have a nice life" is a quote of Sandahl.  It was her response to both me and mindy.  I thought that it was dismissive.  Yes, we should pick our battles, but I happen to think (obviously) that this is one worth fighting.  It is a battle against nism.  It is why we are all on these boards in the first place.

[hope2003]

to all:

I just read Engel's post on the Npartners board.  She came to my defense saying that she couldn't see what I said that was offensive, and that my tone was reasonable.

Sandahl lied.  This was my private e-mail to her.  I  wrote this to her privately when she had kicked me off  Of course, we can't read the thread because she erased it, but she said that she was trying to avert a train wreck and that she started a thread inviting us to discuss it with her privately.  You judge who is offensive:



You are creating the train wreck.  Obviously, nobody
> wanted to respond
> to your thread because they wanted to discuss how
> the group should be
> run among the group members, through a consensus.

This group is not up for a vote!!!
 
> You kicked me off without so much as an explanation.

Seems to me you hung yourself...I owe you no
explanation...you lost that when you refused to use
the proper format.
>  For somebody who
> claims to care about the healing of others, how do
> you think that you
> have made me feel?  Obviously, you don't care.
> I agree with Mindy.  You are the N.

Your N coment alone is grounds for banning though I
only resended your membership.  You owe me, and
> everybody else and
> apology for your controlling crap.

I owe you nothing!!!

> This wasn't about you to begin with, but now it is.
You all made it about me...now go have a nice life.
>



Now, this is the woman committed to helping people heal and diversity of opinion.

[bunny]

Lisa,

We are picking our battles. It's a battle against a vindictive, cruel, arbitrary person (Sandahl). You may not like the way things turned out, but this is how people handle being abused.

I didn't give a reason why I was leaving because it seemed obvious to me. Others knew exactly why -- it was because Sand had become very hostile toward me. Why would I stick around for that? I also had no interest in starting a big conflict. There was a conflict anyway, because of SAND. She handled it poorly; no one else did, if you care to look at it more closely.

[Nike]

Bunny,
If it was so obvious why you left, why were so many people asking, "where's Herm??" "why did Herm leave?" "Is she going to come back and talk to us about it??" It didnt seem to be very clear at all to me why you left and I dont think it was very clear to many of the people at N partners. That's ok, you can do what you want to do but I'm just saying I dont believe Sandahls "meanness" was as obvious as you say or those questions wouldnt have been asked. Personally I thought you wanted your privacy and for us NOT to know what the problem was because in your other posts about the incident at your sisters you got very mad and up and left then too..was Sand being mean to you then?

Hope,
Really I see that as normal conversation between two people who are arguing where things are starting to get heated. Add to that the fact that we are all typing our remarks and alot of things can be taken the wrong way sometimes.

[bunny]

Lisa,

If it wasn't obvious to you or others, I'm sorry. It was obvious to some of the members. And the thing about my sister was also VERY obvious to me. Some members, including Sand, attacked me, said terrible things about me, my sister, and niece, and if you didn't notice that, I can't help you see it. I can't spell everything out for every person. Nor do I owe any explanation. People come and go in life. I had to leave N-partners because my safety comes first. Sand would be the first to agree with that.

If you see Sand's email to Hope as a "normal conversation" I disagree. It's not a normal conversation I would ever have.

[hope2003]

Lisa:

I think that the reason that some people asked about Herm was because they hadn't read the thread.  First of all, not everybody reads the posts every day or all day.  Second, some, including me, don't read the content of every thread or every post in every thread.  Personally, I didn't read much about the N's and AA thread because it is not a topic that currently interests me.  I went back and reviewed the thread when I realized that something was going on. Sand came down pretty hard on Herm, and it looked like a set-up to me because she put herms name in the title of the thread.  I think that a healthy debate is just fine, and I believe that Herm could stand up for her position, but it was getting nasty.  People asked about herm because they missed the posts.

Lisa, nobody is trying to change your mind here.  But, your not going to change our minds either.  I happen to agree with Bunny that if you think that Sand's responses were normal, I worry about your future in terms of tolerating more abuse.  You suffered enough with Tammy.  We spent a lot of time talking about boundaries, and we are simply establishing boundaries.  Also, I don't notice you putting pressure on Sandahl to apologize to us and ask us to come back.  If you are, forgive me, because you could be doing it privately.  

Read Engel's post.  I think she summed up my feelings.  I don't know if she has been lurking here and seeing the other side, but if she hasn't she gets a lot of credit for reading between the lines. Sandahl is being self-righteous and a know-it-all.  "Trust me I know what I am doing."

In any case, personally I request that you stop trying to talk me out of my feelings. It feels very discounting and disrespectful to me.  I understand that you want us all to make peace, but sometimes it just doesn't happen and we go our separate ways.

Best of luck to you and I hope that you will join in on other discussions.

[Jaded911]

You know, I sit here and I read some of the comments being made about me saying the "N" word.  I have said this a million freggin times and I am going to say it one more time with the hope that whoever lurks here will know what I said and realize it is my opinion how I felt she was behaving, not yours, MINE!!

I did not call her a N, I stated she was behaving with N actions,  Geesh freggin pete.  I really felt it then and I am damn sure of it now.  I want to show from Sands own list of some of the actions I witnessed from her on that post.  Now remember folks, it is IMHO, doesnt mean it has to be yours, but I damn sure have the right to have a freggin IMHO, remember, we lost that right at one time, well I got mine back and I am going to freggin say it whether or not it agrees with IYHO, but ya know, I just do not plan on fighting my whole freggin life with people that think that THEIR HUMBLE OPINION WIPES OUT EVERYONE ELSES WHINEY WEAK OPINION.  

Quoted from Sands list of 85 blah blah.
 Emotional immaturity. Behavior is not age appropriate.
2. Self-centeredness. He comes first and foremost. Is insincere about real interest in other people.

3. Little if any remorse for mistakes.

7. Inability to postpose immediate gratification - what he wants, he wants now. Impulsive and demanding.

10. Tendency to project his own shortcomings on to the world about him - frequent blaming. Never at fault.

13. Gives lip service to professed values and beliefs.


16. Ability to put up a good ‘front' to impress and exploit others.
(I am seeing more of this going on right now then when I stated it in the first damn place)
18. Can ‘con' to get what he wants to meet his needs, often at the expense of others. The  behavior is highly repetitious and many people are used.

19. Sees others as pawns on the chess board. Maneuvers people around for his own purposes. When done with them,  they are ‘checkmated' or rejected.

20. Ready rationalization - rarely at a loss for words - twists conversation to divorce himself from responsibility. When he  is trapped, he just keeps talking or changes the subject, or gets angry.

21. Incapable of maintaining genuine loyalities to any person, group, or code.

24. ‘ Chip on shoulder' attitude - cocky and arrogant.

63. Convincing. Successful at getting other people to believe in his perception of a problem. Is adamant that people side with him vs. Allow them to feel/believe differently.

68. He has to be right. He has to win. He has to look good.

69. He announces, not discusses. He tells, not asks.

84. Is not interested in problem-solving openly.

Now, whether or any anyone else agrees with this, I am stating this is what I saw from Sand that made me want to come forward and speak out about it.  I didnt even post about herm.  KNOW WHY??????? Because I did not have all of the facts and I had no right to put my two cents in.  Perhaps that would be some good advice for anyone and everyone for that matter on the N-Partner board.  

Right now all I am witnessing is alot of bad mouthing about my comment.  Ya know what, if it makes ya feel better, hang me for my opinion.  But grow the hell up and look around at everything and I do mean everything.  I saw how Sand was becoming more hostile with herm as that one post went on.  She was out of line, so if it means I kicked for speaking my mind, damn right!!  I should have done it two freggin miserable years ago with my xN.  That would have saved me from alot of crap, including my broken rib and the chipping away bit by bit at my FEELINGS OF HAVING THE RIGHT TO SPEAK MY MIND.  Ya damn right I spoke up for what I believed to be how Sand treated Herm.  

I really hope everyone who just can not get over me saying the N word realises that alot of her behavior is what triggered me to speak.  I just will not allow anyone else in my lifetime to warp my sense of judgement.  That includes in person and on that board.  It is what it is.  I do not think Sands comments to Hope were just a normal arguement.  To me it screams "I am talking hope, shut the hell up and what I say goes.  Now run right on along and have a long miserable life like you had while living with a N, tata hope.

But then again, that is only IMHO.  Good grief, get over me saying the N action word.  Its there in black and white. Geese Louise!

[Nike]

Bunny,
The stuff about your sister I didnt get to read much about...I have to work during the days so I dont get to read until the evenings and by then alot had been deleted...I understood as much as I could with what limited amount of knowledge I had at that time, and I thought you just wanted it all to go away and for us not to ask any more questions about it.

That would be normal conversation to you if you were in an argument with that person. What Hope copied sounds typical of two people arguing to me.

[hope2003]

Amen Jaded.  

Nike, then I guess you think it o.k. to say F**K OFF in an argument, because that is what she did.  

Guess what, I don't want to argue with you any longer.  I have different standards of what is appropriate behavior.

Gotta run.......