Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
acapella and the other n-partners
bunny:
Lisa,
If it wasn't obvious to you or others, I'm sorry. It was obvious to some of the members. And the thing about my sister was also VERY obvious to me. Some members, including Sand, attacked me, said terrible things about me, my sister, and niece, and if you didn't notice that, I can't help you see it. I can't spell everything out for every person. Nor do I owe any explanation. People come and go in life. I had to leave N-partners because my safety comes first. Sand would be the first to agree with that.
If you see Sand's email to Hope as a "normal conversation" I disagree. It's not a normal conversation I would ever have.
hope2003:
Lisa:
I think that the reason that some people asked about Herm was because they hadn't read the thread. First of all, not everybody reads the posts every day or all day. Second, some, including me, don't read the content of every thread or every post in every thread. Personally, I didn't read much about the N's and AA thread because it is not a topic that currently interests me. I went back and reviewed the thread when I realized that something was going on. Sand came down pretty hard on Herm, and it looked like a set-up to me because she put herms name in the title of the thread. I think that a healthy debate is just fine, and I believe that Herm could stand up for her position, but it was getting nasty. People asked about herm because they missed the posts.
Lisa, nobody is trying to change your mind here. But, your not going to change our minds either. I happen to agree with Bunny that if you think that Sand's responses were normal, I worry about your future in terms of tolerating more abuse. You suffered enough with Tammy. We spent a lot of time talking about boundaries, and we are simply establishing boundaries. Also, I don't notice you putting pressure on Sandahl to apologize to us and ask us to come back. If you are, forgive me, because you could be doing it privately.
Read Engel's post. I think she summed up my feelings. I don't know if she has been lurking here and seeing the other side, but if she hasn't she gets a lot of credit for reading between the lines. Sandahl is being self-righteous and a know-it-all. "Trust me I know what I am doing."
In any case, personally I request that you stop trying to talk me out of my feelings. It feels very discounting and disrespectful to me. I understand that you want us all to make peace, but sometimes it just doesn't happen and we go our separate ways.
Best of luck to you and I hope that you will join in on other discussions.
Jaded911:
You know, I sit here and I read some of the comments being made about me saying the "N" word. I have said this a million freggin times and I am going to say it one more time with the hope that whoever lurks here will know what I said and realize it is my opinion how I felt she was behaving, not yours, MINE!!
I did not call her a N, I stated she was behaving with N actions, Geesh freggin pete. I really felt it then and I am damn sure of it now. I want to show from Sands own list of some of the actions I witnessed from her on that post. Now remember folks, it is IMHO, doesnt mean it has to be yours, but I damn sure have the right to have a freggin IMHO, remember, we lost that right at one time, well I got mine back and I am going to freggin say it whether or not it agrees with IYHO, but ya know, I just do not plan on fighting my whole freggin life with people that think that THEIR HUMBLE OPINION WIPES OUT EVERYONE ELSES WHINEY WEAK OPINION.
Quoted from Sands list of 85 blah blah.
Emotional immaturity. Behavior is not age appropriate.
2. Self-centeredness. He comes first and foremost. Is insincere about real interest in other people.
3. Little if any remorse for mistakes.
7. Inability to postpose immediate gratification - what he wants, he wants now. Impulsive and demanding.
10. Tendency to project his own shortcomings on to the world about him - frequent blaming. Never at fault.
13. Gives lip service to professed values and beliefs.
16. Ability to put up a good ‘front' to impress and exploit others.
(I am seeing more of this going on right now then when I stated it in the first damn place)
18. Can ‘con' to get what he wants to meet his needs, often at the expense of others. The behavior is highly repetitious and many people are used.
19. Sees others as pawns on the chess board. Maneuvers people around for his own purposes. When done with them, they are ‘checkmated' or rejected.
20. Ready rationalization - rarely at a loss for words - twists conversation to divorce himself from responsibility. When he is trapped, he just keeps talking or changes the subject, or gets angry.
21. Incapable of maintaining genuine loyalities to any person, group, or code.
24. ‘ Chip on shoulder' attitude - cocky and arrogant.
63. Convincing. Successful at getting other people to believe in his perception of a problem. Is adamant that people side with him vs. Allow them to feel/believe differently.
68. He has to be right. He has to win. He has to look good.
69. He announces, not discusses. He tells, not asks.
84. Is not interested in problem-solving openly.
Now, whether or any anyone else agrees with this, I am stating this is what I saw from Sand that made me want to come forward and speak out about it. I didnt even post about herm. KNOW WHY??????? Because I did not have all of the facts and I had no right to put my two cents in. Perhaps that would be some good advice for anyone and everyone for that matter on the N-Partner board.
Right now all I am witnessing is alot of bad mouthing about my comment. Ya know what, if it makes ya feel better, hang me for my opinion. But grow the hell up and look around at everything and I do mean everything. I saw how Sand was becoming more hostile with herm as that one post went on. She was out of line, so if it means I kicked for speaking my mind, damn right!! I should have done it two freggin miserable years ago with my xN. That would have saved me from alot of crap, including my broken rib and the chipping away bit by bit at my FEELINGS OF HAVING THE RIGHT TO SPEAK MY MIND. Ya damn right I spoke up for what I believed to be how Sand treated Herm.
I really hope everyone who just can not get over me saying the N word realises that alot of her behavior is what triggered me to speak. I just will not allow anyone else in my lifetime to warp my sense of judgement. That includes in person and on that board. It is what it is. I do not think Sands comments to Hope were just a normal arguement. To me it screams "I am talking hope, shut the hell up and what I say goes. Now run right on along and have a long miserable life like you had while living with a N, tata hope.
But then again, that is only IMHO. Good grief, get over me saying the N action word. Its there in black and white. Geese Louise!
Nike:
Bunny,
The stuff about your sister I didnt get to read much about...I have to work during the days so I dont get to read until the evenings and by then alot had been deleted...I understood as much as I could with what limited amount of knowledge I had at that time, and I thought you just wanted it all to go away and for us not to ask any more questions about it.
That would be normal conversation to you if you were in an argument with that person. What Hope copied sounds typical of two people arguing to me.
hope2003:
Amen Jaded.
Nike, then I guess you think it o.k. to say F**K OFF in an argument, because that is what she did.
Guess what, I don't want to argue with you any longer. I have different standards of what is appropriate behavior.
Gotta run.......
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