acapella and the other n-partners

[Jaded911]

What was so horrible about the post about Herm leaving?  I guess I have never understood that.  Why did she feel that it needed to be deleted?  Hope, isnt why you chose to speak out?  You just simply asked why it was deleted.

Well my memory isnt the best, but if I recall, 100% was everyone stating they hated to see her go.  

You know, I read that when a relationship ends with a N person.  The N gets everything out of their sight that reminds them of the significant other.  As if they think OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND.  

Out of all of those posts that people put there about Herm leaving, how many of those people have come over to be supportive of Herm now?

[hope2003]

Jaded: you are right, I posted my concern because there was 100% support for herm, and I felt that the thread wasn't left up long enough for the membership to review it.  That thread wasn't getting hostile. My  thread did get heated.  

Originally, it was my hope that if herm was lurking, she would see how much people cared about her and rethink her decision.  For me, as I was seeing herm post less and less, the board wasn't the same and I was losing some enthusiasm.  

I think that it is so clear and obvious that Sand wanted herm out--for whatever reason.  Herm is gone, and now we have somebody even better:

BUNNY

[bunny]

Guest,

It helps a lot to hear your opinion. Thanks for the validation. I hope you will keep visiting us here.

[hope2003]

Star started a thread on the other board saying very nice things about me and Herm:

I'm having a little trouble with the attitude about Hope and Herm being gone. Without splitting hairs about what happened &  why, blah blah, what I remember is their great qualities, thinking, strength,  and how helpful they were to us whenever we needed help. I'd like to think we don't discard all of that. I can't.
There are so many great people here, but they are great, too.

If you are out there lurking, I really appreciate your kind thoughts.  It will be interesting to see if anybody has the guts to chime in.  I think that Sand has created fear in the members of being banned.

Time for "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"  Can't think about this topic much longer.

[hope2003]

I just checked the npartners board to see the responses to the nice thread star posted.  I couldn't resist sending Sand this direct e-mail:


I assume that you are going to ban MariaTree for accusing members of Nism behavior.  You are preaching that is not allowed and is a reason for banning, and she is obviously referring to some who are still members.

After all, you banned me before I ever used the N word.  

I know how “fair” you are, so let’s see it?

How much do you want to bet that she will have a subtle nuance that distinguishes what mariatree said from what we did.  I guess the subtle difference is that we directed our comments at Sand, and mariatree directed at us.  

This is hypocrisy.

[I'm_mine]

Bobbe,

about being logged in or not - that happens on this site.  It times out and I haven't found a way to detect if I am really logged in - as you noted it still can have your name next to 'Log out' and yet you are no longer logged in.  

I emailed the moderator/manager here, R Grossman, and he acknowledged the difficulty that situation poses and yet it is a technical constraint. I tried the preview button....

Echo, thanks for the info.  I just remembered a board a friend of mine had, the same kind as this one, and the exact same thing happened on her board.

See, I can't log in again.  I logged in 4 times, looked like it was successful, but as soon as I got to the page w/your post so I could quote it, I was logged out again.  

Oh, well - if that's the worst thing I ever have to deal with in my life, I'm very , very lucky, right?
   
bobbie

[Acappella]

Yup bobbie, helps put things in perspective eh?

Hope, speaking of perspective...treating relationships like pieces on a chess board really is so counterproductive once you know how good a real connection can feel, right?  And, I've come to realize (oh my gosh I am still growing up at 41! Yippie, means I aint dead yet for one thing.)  that since I live in a world where many people may just see relationships as a maneuvering game, and I have some tendency to get unknowingly caught up in the game I best learn to spot the board and some key strategies so I can forfeit or avoid playing at all .   I think you are getting some excellent forsight about what to expect.  Aside from the good relationships that may come of this unfortunate event that seems to be the next biggest gain....night vision.

ECHO (Acappella on the Sandahl site aka the Npartners site)

[Acappella]

I am thankful to anyone at the Sandahl site who is questioning the safety there.  You know who you are (in more ways than one).  I feel like you are tending to a sort of social ecology that reaches beyond any single board or relationship and makes a lot of individuals feel stronger and safer too, yourself included I imagine and hope.  

I am thankful because:
#1  Feeling connected and then cut off without notice or being missed or a valid avenue to reconnect hurts!  The best antidote to disconnection is connection.  I feel more connected seeing examples of courage and the struggle for group safety.
#2  Speaking up in a group on whom you depend is likely scary for most of us, according to posts I've read and my own experience - even without such blatant signs of danger.  I appreciate the courage you have.  I like being reminded that in addition to the harshness in the world there are counter balances too.
#3  It isn't only about being defended or not or any single person but about community, virtual and otherwise - a community with a social ecology - Expressing concern about the image vs. the reality of that site is about encouraging integrity and I believe that is good for us all.  It just makes the world a better, safer place.  I know it is good for me anyway.  

THANK YOU.  I won't post names here if you aren't posting here and besides you know who you are.

I don't hate anyone at the other site, I don't know them well enough to be quite that hurt and hate beyond a quick reactive feeling it just wastes my precious energy anyway.  I do feel Sandahl's reaction must have been valid for whatever was going on inside her AND totally ineffective in terms of a vital level of consistency and trust in the group she claimed to "support".  If that board falls apart it will be in part because of the lack of integrity and the safety that goes along with at least a basic level of integrity.

This all may seem obvious to some folks but two weeks ago it wasn't for me and seems like not for a lot of people.

I am only interested in continuing on this thread as:
#1  A way of understanding how I got myself into that and what signs were there that I missed and to start getting clearer on what I do and don't want in relationships.

#2  A reference for others at the Sandahl site (or any other board) who have unsafe experiences and want a safer alternative and to know they aren't alone in that other experience.  A thread can't go on forever though.

For myself I want to explore how I got myself into that situation and if there were signs I didn't see. How does it relate to my other relationships in life?  I know I attract some people with strong N tendancies and I want to better understand how it happens.  I want to understand better the flags that fly both ways and the tacit contracts that get made, that I make.  I'd also like to look at that with others who still have those questions for themselves or other questions or feelings about what happened. I sure do not want to be focusing on any of this any longer than necessary - I just want to turn it into awareness, specific awareness ...not "they" are everywhere and "they" are bad awareness (venting is part of the process too though).    If anyone is interested in that discussion perhaps we can continue it as a smaller group?  My email is on this site in the member section.  I don't know how many people on the voicelessness site were involved directly or otherwise in this incident and are interested but not speaking up here.  I have noticed a tremendous number of views though.  I am tempted to post here my total exchange (all of which was public and short) with the manager of the other site.  I dont know if it would be helpful for anyone else.  I may just do it for myself....haven't decided yet.

ECHO/(aka Acappella at other site)

[Jaded911]

Echo,

Doesn't it feel good to know that you are regaining the strength to defend yourself?  I had a very interesting thought today about this ordeal.  Remember the post from the other site that mentioned a member meeting her xN girlfriend before she came along?  It talked about meeting and her expectations of her were not how she presented to be.

That led me into thinking about my xN talking about his xwife.  He said the most horrible things about her and although some were true, I know some were false too.  But I remember thinking how much he loved me and how special I was to him, blah blah blah.  I just knew that he would never NEVER ever have anything that horrible to say about me.

WRONGO!!    I am blah blah blah.  Point to my thoughts boils down to this.  Everyone there who thinks they are beyond being treated like we were, guess again.  Anybody there could be next with their words twisted, actions exagerated, and their mouths covered as they are rushed to the door, in order to silence them.  So basically, I thought he wouldnt dream of speaking about me like that, never thought I could ever be on my xN bash list.  Ya well,  I was just the next one in line, just another naive woman.  

But, who the heck wants to stand in that line again.  What you see is what you get, and I seen it and cant say I regret that my blinders were not on this time.  I made the right decision to speak out, wish I would have done it with my xN.  But ya just cant have everything now can ya??

[tiredofthewhining]

you say you want differing opinions but when the nike person offered opposing views.........you have attacked her

you have done nothing here other than slander sand and her board she's helped alot of people. it is a good board and good support.

hermione quit the board.thats not her fault. yet you attack her.besides the herm character gave blatantly wrong information.

you sound like a bunch of whining children because you didn't get your way. who's the n here? not sand.

my opinion...... go ahead slam me..... you know you are going to.

totw

[guest]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking on that board for 6 months.  Imo, "hermione" helped countless people work their way out of emotional chaos, providing some of the sanest, most practical advice and observations on the internet.

I have a friend who manages a resource site regarding damage inflicted on survivors by online "support" groups . . .

http://groups.msn.com/ANarcissisticPersonalityDisorderPsychoGroupOrdeal/theordeal.msnw

sandahl has much in common with femfree, imho.  Their motto: Overcome the narcissists in your life by becoming one yourself.

I wish you all peace and strength on your healing journeys.

[bunny]

tired of the whining,

If you don't like us, what are you doing here calling people names. What is the point. You won't convince anyone of your integrity or intelligence. Just sounds like another abuser.

[tiredofthewhining]

i didn't call anyone anything. i said you sounded like a bunch of whining children. do you always take offense to everything eveyrone says?

it was you who caused all of this because you couldn't take someone opposing your views. so you made this big dramatic post about leaving. then everyone attacked a good manager on a good board and she is paying the price for it.

get over it and move on. thats what most adults do.

there is a time when one must move on from victim to survivor. you were not victimized. you left because you got pissed off because someone didn't agree with you.

i'm here because i am tired of hearing sand get slammed. someone should take up for her the way you guys are carrying on.

[Acappella]

Guest,

thank you for the link!  

And as for the becoming self imploded to deal with the self implosion of someone else....that is an excellent topic! A sucko feeling and important to note.  

I noticed I was trying to fluff my feathers as big, if not bigger than a certain roster in my life.  I realized that I actually must be seeing the bully's bulling as powerful or I wouldn't have been trying to compete.  Caring about him was a different topic all together.  Being hurt was also a separate topic from hatred and retaliation once I got that I was competing with him and that to do so I must value, percieve as strong, his tactics on some level.  Even if it was just feeling it was the only option, that was a way of valuing the option.  I didn't like seeing it in myself and once I did I felt instantly less reactive. That was a turning point for me and I know I can still go that way..the potential is there, the reaction still there until my alternative skills and feelings are strengthened through practise.  I was beginning to practice getting mean as I was so frightened of the bullying and felt so trapped.  One day I realized, "I am trying to get good at this!".  Hello! No way to spend a life or a moment of it when there is an alternative.


Echo (gots to change this name)

[Anonymous]

('Nofights' here)

Jaded and Echo

What I learned from the goings-on at N-partners was an extension of what I learned from the experience with my N.  That when I see certain behaviors in another that are not acceptable, I do not try to change the other, or argue my position with them.  I merely announce my position and move on.  When I broke up with the N was the first time I ever broke up with someone and did not agree to any discussion of the causes, because we were obviously on 2 completely different wavelengths (little did I know . . . )

That's how I have handled the first such breakdown at n-partners (over a year ago, and repeated at least 3 times since), and I have done the same recently when an N appeared in a sports league that I belonged to.  I spotted the unacceptable behavior, I announced my observations, and I moved on.  I am finding it healthier and more satisfying than trying to stick around where unacceptable behavior reigns.  And I don't carry lingering worry of whether I did or didn't do the right thing because I know what I saw and that is all that matters to me.  That's an improvement over wondering if other's views are more 'valid' than mine, etc., which leaves one vulnerable to manipulation.  

It obviously depends on what the issue is.  I am not advocating 'my way or the highway'.  But it has all taught me how to better identify certain issues that cannot be compromised (boundaries, I guess), and to not doubt myself on them, which hopefully makes me less of an n-target in the future.  In the case of Sand, what I spotted in the first conflict was a severe double standard, and I view that as a personality trait that you cannot 'argue' someone out of, so why bother yourself with it (thus the 'nofights' handle).  I stick with the generally accepted description of N-ism, and I can't say that sand has demonstrated to me that she is an N.  But she has demonstrated to me enough unacceptable behavior for me to want to move on and not be affected by her positions.  

There are enough times when I have no choice but to accept it, specifically in the work environment, that I will not tolerate it when I don't have to.

Hope that addresses your posts