Author Topic: My way or the highway  (Read 8117 times)

phillip

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My way or the highway
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2005, 09:50:23 PM »
I have to share a feeling with you folks.  In plain terms, you all warm my heart.  I thank-you all for being you.
ALL THAT IS NOT GIVEN IS LOST

                                               HASAN PAL

phillip

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My way or the highway
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2005, 10:06:42 PM »
Mudpuppy-I am inclined to agree with you.  I just have this silly notion that all issues can be settled with love and compassion.  Yet, I am getting too old to be so naive.  I just can't let it go though.  Maybe it is just stubbornness.  I will continue to assess my own boundaries.  Turning the other cheek is a new experience for me and it is too early for me to clearly define what I am doing.  I am learning as I go.  Sorry for the drama.
ALL THAT IS NOT GIVEN IS LOST

                                               HASAN PAL

mudpuppy

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My way or the highway
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2005, 10:49:10 PM »
No problemo Phillipe,

Its hard to know what to do with someone like that.

mud

Wispery

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My way or the highway
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2005, 11:10:36 PM »
K....one can always still hope though. :)

Thank you all for your support and wisdom.

mum

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My way or the highway
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2005, 11:55:00 PM »
Phillip, Wispery.  Just caught up with this thread.  Interesting stuff, even when it comes down to getting this person to visit here (sounded dicey to me...like inviting a wolf to eat with the sheep).
Just a question: it's clear you love this person, but she is too damaged to appreciate it.  And it's clear you don't want to give up on her.  Why not?
What are you attached to?  If you have tried with loving intention to be kind and good and set healthy boundaries with this person, do you know what motivates you to keep this going? (this hope, this idea that healing will happen if you care enough, or whatever the attachment is)
Is it guilt? Are you thinking you need to repair damage you caused?

I am a bit of a pain, I know, but I am learning to detach from my exN in a major way now, and those are questions I ask myself a lot.
In less spiritual and more visual terms, a simple thing that helps me is Steven Covey's imagery of the concentric circles of "concern" (larger, outer circle) and the inner circle of "influence".  I try to stay in the inner circle of influence....what can I DO about a concern of mine.
If I am spending all my energy in the outer circle of concern, over which I have no influence, I am usually unhappy or stressed, and attached to something I cannot change.  As a visual artist, this imagery really makes sense to me.
I know you two have a million coping tools, (most importantly, each other) but I figure I can always use another tool in the shed...
So along those lines....let it go, let it go, let it go.

bunny as guest

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My way or the highway
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2005, 12:16:02 AM »
Quote from: phillip
Mudpuppy-I am inclined to agree with you.  I just have this silly notion that all issues can be settled with love and compassion.  Yet, I am getting too old to be so naive.  I just can't let it go though.  Maybe it is just stubbornness.  I will continue to assess my own boundaries.  Turning the other cheek is a new experience for me and it is too early for me to clearly define what I am doing.  I am learning as I go.  Sorry for the drama.


Your compassion was: you set limits for everyone's own good including hers. If she wanted to reflect on the 'betrayal' dramas in her life, things would change. The real problem is: she won't reflect but will only react. This is all about her early childhood and not about you guys at all.

bunny

wispery

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My way or the highway
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2005, 12:34:44 AM »
Yes, she went through terrible traumas. Horrible to even contemplate. Put it this way, her case was famous and publicised. She had been dragged to hell and back, and has been abused all of her life.

I wish I could share more, but that would be getting too personal. Just to say, that the reason we found it so hard to let go, was because we saw her as a beautiful flower, not just a metaphor, but an expressive beauty, lead by her heart, striving for compassion.

Since I've known her for so long now, even though I've never met her in person, the things we shared and went through together would shatter the walls of this board to divulge.

I know we just have to let her go....and hope that she is alright.

mum

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My way or the highway
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2005, 02:09:17 AM »
Wispery, I understand.  You are a good soul.  I pray she will know peace.
mum

phillip

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My way or the highway
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2005, 02:17:37 AM »
MUM-Read your pm.  Thank you.  I once read a sufi quote. We are all moving toward our destiny.  The only choice we have is to walk forward into it with our eyes opened, or walk backwards with our eyes closed.  We are on the same page.  I suppose in the end, the destination does not matter, no attachment to outcomes.  Only the journey, one foot in front of the other.  Blessings and my heart to your niece and her mother.
ALL THAT IS NOT GIVEN IS LOST

                                               HASAN PAL

d'smom

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My way or the highway
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2005, 04:22:42 AM »
Quote from: wispery
Yes, she went through terrible traumas. Horrible to even contemplate.......  Just to say, that the reason we found it so hard to let go, was because we saw her as a beautiful flower, not just a metaphor, but an expressive beauty, lead by her heart, striving for compassion.

I know we just have to let her go....and hope that she is alright.




I just want to say, I can really understand your position of caring about someone like that and not knowing where to draw the line......... I want to tell you how its been with my daughters father, becuase i feel similarly about him. he is -not- an N, or a borderline, or anything, (im not sure if your friend is or not)  but he -is- a very damaged person with a lot of issues, which is why we're not together.

he doesnt have a personality disorder in any way, hes a wonderful, talented, creative, thoughtful person with massive amounts of integrity, who i probably respect more than anyone else ive ever met; but he is =so= damaged, that he jsut doestn trust =anyone=, and for that reason he wont get any kind of help. still he struggles to live -without- taking out his emotions on others, which is a big reason why i respect him. but he is bipolar and he doesnt trust doctors enough to get medicine, which is another reason hes hard to deal with and another reason i respect him, for having the mental strength to survive being bipolar, without meds, beuase i know how incredibly tough that is.

so here is this person, that i respect so completely, but who is so unable to trust anyone who might possibly help him. ive known him for.... almost 13 years now..... there have been many times he has turned against me as though i were his enemy, becuase he was in so much pain. it really hurt and i just have to draw the line on that kind of behavior.  i swore to myself i would always be loyal to him, becuase he made my pregnancy so wonderful and was there for me so many times in real life when the chips were down. BUT this -doesnt- mean accepting bad behavior.

there have been times i havent seen him for several years becuase he was behaving so badly and i did not want to be around it. he pulled himself together and we were friends again.

this person has huge amounts of anger becuase of things that have happened to him all his life and he has plenty of reason to feel that way..... i often dont know how to 'defuse' him when he gets that way, and have to just disengage.  recently something GFN said really helped me in my dealing with him. (which i wanted to tell GFN actually :).)

last week the phone rang at 4 am, which is very unusual. it was this guy, who was in a very bad space. he was very upset and 'angry' about varoius things that happened that made him feel powerless and that he couldnt control and nobody likes to feel that way. he was talking about ripping up photographs and sounding very upset and i knew it was bad if he was calling at 4 am.  i didnt know what to say but then i thought of what GFN recently taught me about anger being a secondary emotion.

so i said to my freind - 'i am sorry you are hurting'. i kept saying that over and over in a patient way, as he 'raged' at me. it wasnt really apparent how much good it did but a few days later he called me sounding really positive and saying he had gotten cable and was finally on the internet, which hes been working toward for awhile. it was a really positive outreaching move for him. he talked about getting work (hes disabled) and in general sounded really interested in being involved with life again, which surprised me a lot.

i was suprised that this happened beucase its very hard to defuse him sometimes when he gets like that.

so..... i know how sad it is when someone you really love is difficult and even self-destructive...... sometimes you have to disengage and let them walk their path.. but you can always be there for them if they will treat you (and themselves) with respect, and you can try to say to this woman, 'i am sorry you are hurting'. if she is capable of responding, she may respond. if she cant even respond to something like that - maybe she has a personality disorder and you will need to disengage even more. you can only do so much for someone no matter how cool they are.

i just felt like tossing that out becuase i know it really hurts to see someone beautiful who is trapped in themselves like that. sometimes bottom line, you have to step back and leave it to them. if they dont reach back.. that has to be their choice...

take care :}/
Anna

d'smom

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My way or the highway
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2005, 04:26:45 AM »
Quote from: wispery
Yes, she went through terrible traumas. Horrible to even contemplate.......  Just to say, that the reason we found it so hard to let go, was because we saw her as a beautiful flower, not just a metaphor, but an expressive beauty, lead by her heart, striving for compassion.

I know we just have to let her go....and hope that she is alright.




I just want to say, I can really understand your position of caring about someone like that and not knowing where to draw the line......... I want to tell you how its been with my daughters father, becuase i feel similarly about him. he is -not- an N, or a borderline, or anything, (im not sure if your friend is or not)  but he -is- a very damaged person with a lot of issues, which is why we're not together.

he doesnt have a personality disorder in any way, hes a wonderful, talented, creative, thoughtful person with massive amounts of integrity, who i probably respect more than anyone else ive ever met; but he is =so= damaged, that he jsut doestn trust =anyone=, and for that reason he wont get any kind of help. still he struggles to live -without- taking out his emotions on others, which is a big reason why i respect him. but he is bipolar and he doesnt trust doctors enough to get medicine, which is another reason hes hard to deal with and another reason i respect him, for having the mental strength to survive being bipolar, without meds, beuase i know how incredibly tough that is.

so here is this person, that i respect so completely, but who is so unable to trust anyone who might possibly help him. ive known him for.... almost 13 years now..... there have been many times he has turned against me as though i were his enemy, becuase he was in so much pain. it really hurt and i just have to draw the line on that kind of behavior.  i swore to myself i would always be loyal to him, becuase he made my pregnancy so wonderful and was there for me so many times in real life when the chips were down. BUT this -doesnt- mean accepting bad behavior.

there have been times i havent seen him for several years becuase he was behaving so badly and i did not want to be around it. he pulled himself together and we were friends again.

this person has huge amounts of anger becuase of things that have happened to him all his life and he has plenty of reason to feel that way..... i often dont know how to 'defuse' him when he gets that way, and have to just disengage.  recently something GFN said really helped me in my dealing with him. (which i wanted to tell GFN actually :).)

last week the phone rang at 4 am, which is very unusual. it was this guy, who was in a very bad space. he was very upset and 'angry' about varoius things that happened that made him feel powerless and that he couldnt control and nobody likes to feel that way. he was talking about ripping up photographs and sounding very upset and i knew it was bad if he was calling at 4 am.  i didnt know what to say but then i thought of what GFN recently taught me about anger being a secondary emotion.

so i said to my freind - 'i am sorry you are hurting'. i kept saying that over and over in a patient way, as he 'raged' at me. it wasnt really apparent how much good it did but a few days later he called me sounding really positive and saying he had gotten cable and was finally on the internet, which hes been working toward for awhile. it was a really positive outreaching move for him. he talked about getting work (hes disabled) and in general sounded really interested in being involved with life again, which surprised me a lot.

i was suprised that this happened beucase its very hard to defuse him sometimes when he gets like that.

so..... i know how sad it is when someone you really love is difficult and even self-destructive...... sometimes you have to disengage and let them walk their path.. but you can always be there for them if they will treat you (and themselves) with respect, and you can try to say to this woman, 'i am sorry you are hurting'. if she is capable of responding, she may respond. if she cant even respond to something like that - maybe she has a personality disorder and you will need to disengage even more. you can only do so much for someone no matter how cool they are.

i just felt like tossing that out becuase i know it really hurts to see someone beautiful who is trapped in themselves like that. sometimes bottom line, you have to step back and leave it to them. if they dont reach back.. that has to be their choice...

take care :}/
Anna

bunny as guest

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My way or the highway
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2005, 10:12:21 AM »
anna,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Thanks.  :)

bunny

Anonymous

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My way or the highway
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2005, 05:54:54 AM »
Phillip:

Thank you for your insightful remarks.  They were very helpful to me.

Patz