Hope, are you out there?

[Guest]

Jaded-- please STOP with all of the negativity and anger, hiding it behind the guise of "my right to a voice".

Maybe in one way, you are truly discovering your voice, your assertiveness, your ability to question things presented to you, after living an egg shell, hell walk with xN.    We all know what that is like.  But please remember that there is BALANCE.   You can go too far the other way as well.

This exchange was between Hope & Engel, and it was really not your business.   You really should have left it alone Jaded.    It is NOT a matter of your "right" to speak your opinion(yes, you have that) it was a matter of common courtesy, etiquette, thoughtfulness.   Do you understand the difference??

 Now, you may have even ruined Hope's chances of connecting with Engel, and she wantes too!!!    

Engel is a sweet, SINCERE woman, who reached out with a loving heart and didn't deserve such a negative interference by a long shot.   Engel, if you are reading this, know how much you are respected and liked.

Perhaps you are processing anger over xN(many of us are) and that is understandable, but to consistently unleash it on your fellow N partners is NOT okay by any means.    WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT HERE, AND NEED TO ***SUPPORT*** one another.

You can let some things pass that you have feelings on, you know.   You don't have to comment on every thing that you feel.   Again, even though the message was written in a public forum(couldn't be helped)  the conversation was meant to be between those two people.    There is a time to be thoughtful, and courteous, and simply leave things alone.  

Do you see the negative vibe and agruging you have succeeded in causing?    Do you feel good about this?  That is a serious question, NOT a put down.    Ask yourself if you get a payoff-- something like feeling powerful where you have felt powerless before in your life, feeling heard where you have felt unheard, etc...  

Please do not just lash out and attack others who are writing in disagreement to what you said.    Instead, why not end the thread(with your silence) and THINK to yourself only, about things.    

If so many people are replying to you in the same way, it is worth some thought, no?   Isn't part of healing from N having the ability to examine  ourselves and grow?    

If you feel like attacking me, as you have with others who have tried to reason with you (NOT shut down your voice, just get you to not use it so it hurts others NEEDLESSLY) maybe take that as an inner cue...   That you want to lash out yet *again*.   Is it because you feel criticised and feel like you need to react at gut level and mount a defense instead of reflecting on any truth that might be there for you to learn from?

Please think about these things, instead of just being ready to POUNCE, to attack...    Let go of so much anger that seems everywhere for you(this is not the first post of yours I've read)...  It will drain, make you ill, and isolate you.  

Best of luck to you.

Hope, I do hope that you get to connect with Engel somehow.  IMHO, it would be a loss if you didn't

[Guest who did above mail]

Forgive spelling errors in previous.   I gave up part of my lunch hour to type this(how strongly I felt about it) and was rushed.  

I'm sure the point is understood fine.

[Anonymous]

Yeah Accapella but sometimes you just need to cut to the chase with statements like "full of crap"....I mean it does kinda sum it all up.

[Anonymous]

Hi this is bunny (herm to some of you),

Engel, I think Hope would love to hear from you so please email her if you can.

Jaded, I sent you an email, maybe you are upset about something and we can help you. You've been through a lot with Brent and something must have triggered you. But I don't think Engel meant anything harmful at all.

Hi to max, rhd, and other people from N-partners.

[Acappella]

This exchange was between Hope & Engel, and it was really not your business

This exchange is in a public forum.
Hope very wizely let Engle know how to contact her.

"full of crap"....I mean it does kinda sum it all up.

It sums nothing up to me.  It is impersonal and void of content other than the very"crap" it supposedly is meant to describe.  There is nothing there about feelings for starters.

Well anyway I do not believe Jaded attacked anyone.

But please remember that there is BALANCE

 Yes and balance is what we can also use internally especially when reading what someone writes about their feelings.  Balance is about feeling out a middle ground and true balance means going to edges...that is how the middle is found.  

Now, you may have even ruined Hope's chances of connecting with Engel, and she wantes too!!!

 Oh, really.  Jaded you control all the air waves now?  Girl you are powerful.

understandable, but

 BUT?  It is understandable period.

You don't have to comment on every thing that you feel

 Well perhaps we should start emailing you in private to find out exactly which feelings we/she should comment on.  

Do you see the negative vibe and agruging you have succeeded in causing?

 This is familiar sort of talk.  Wow.  I for one do not feel Jaded caused any negative vibe.  Your spin on it is clearly a negative one.

Ask yourself if you get a payoff-- something like feeling powerful where you have felt powerless before in your life, feeling heard where you have felt unheard, etc...

 I hope your answer Jaded is

Yes, hell yes.

why not end the thread(with your silence) and THINK to yourself only

This on a "voicelessness" site.  Well it speaks for itself.[/quote]

[hope2003]

Since this is a thread to me, let me speak up.

Having a voice is good.  Using it properly is essential.  Frankly, I don't listen to really negative communications.  I tune out the content of the message.  

This applies to everyone.  I don't care for phrases like "full of crap"  I don't find them useful.

You end up voiceless with language such as that.

Please let's stop negativity and name-calling.  We can voice differences ina respectful manner.  

I am not angry with Jaded or anyone else, but I think we all have work to do.

[Acappella]

And this is is part of that work for me at least.

[Guest]

I just painfully read your post Acappella.   I'm really not sure if you and Jaded are the same person, but for sure you have some kind of alliance with her, even if it is just one you have taken on personally for yourself.

It is just completely *FUTILE*  to try to reason with a couple of you.   By "reason" I certainly don't mean that you have to agree with others.   Just try meet them halfway, consider some things being said, instead of being so rigid and defensive.   That is something everyone should do, if they'd like to have a cohesive community.

I'd have been willing to speak more about this, even in private(as you suggested), if I thought if would go anywhere, but sadly, I don't.   I think it would just be an endless cycle of anger and defense, instead of a two way, respectful, mutual *listening* dialogue.      No thanks-- been there done that with xN, and don't plan to do it EVER again.

It's unfortunate that it is that way, but I guess I will have to choose the healthy thing and not waste my time and energy.   No more time and energy wasted for me here, either.   I'll let the select few of you stew in your own juices.   Minus me, and it will just be another member, another issue to rage over, that gets automatically inserted.    

I can certainly see where the use of a moderator comes in handy, and why Sandahl has closed the topic of what went on previously, on the other board.     This (negativity and over-anger about things) will never end here, because there are people that won't allow it to.      

It will play out endlessly, just like unmoderated newsgroups.   They have been arguing on there for *YEARS*, and vicsiously many times.    You go there at your own risk.   If that is the kind of community you wish to build, keep at it.

I'm happily out of here!!!         Good luck all.   I do wish you peace, and healing.   Believe it or not, that is truly heartfelt, though I'm sure it will be degraded.    

Won't be around to read it though!

[Acappella]

even in private(as you suggested)

excuse me.  i was not clear.  I was illustrating a point indirectly when I said perhaps guest should be a filter for what feelings are and are not posted here.

[Anonymous]

Accapella,
Why do you speak so much about "feelings" instead of "facts"?
Admittedly, feelings are important but feelings are emotions and emotions as you know can go the way of the old rollercoaster. Not fun.
Not only are they not factual or reliable in an argument (which is what is going on here) , but they also change from person to person so you cant really argue about someones "feelings"... you cant say it's wrong for someone to "FEEL" that another is "full of crap" when that is their feeling concerning the situation....or is it a fact?! Is it a fact that Jaded was "full of crap" when she was trying to make something wrong out of Engels post? I for one "FEEL" that she was.

[Anonymous]

Hi Hope,
It's Star. I, too, am thinking about your upcoming hearing and how you are doing in general. Also hello to you, Herm.

[hope2003]

Hi Star:

 I have a hearing tomorrow.  I could use some positive vibes sent through the air in the morning.  

Now, the jerk is making the car payment on our nanny car, which he has. The loan is in my name.  I have already been reported for one delinquent payment, and in a few days, there will be another.  It never ends.........

It would be great if the judge would have a little change of heart.

[Jaded911]

Hope,

Yes it would be great if the judge not only had a change of heart, but they also opened their eyes while they were at it.  But then again it would be even better if he would grow the heck up and put his children's needs before his wicked ways.  

I really do not think putting your children first is asking to much of a parent.  Do you?  It reminds me of that song "Cats in the cradle".  Remember Hope, that child did grow up and that DAD did get his paybacks.  He got what he gave, which was nothing!!

[Anonymous]

Okay, Hope,
You can count on positive vibes, and a few prayers sent to you tommorrow. It takes a lot of strength to continually be in the quagmire of N chaos, and try to be a good mom, too ( I've been there). I hope you can carve out time soon to relax and somehow detach from these attacks. In December, it will be one year since my divorce. I am far more relaxed and happy, and my N's shenanigans (not backed with high-powered money, though) look more and more foolish and ridiculous to me. The latest with us is that N is crying poor to everyone he knows, yet has plans to take a 2 week vacation with GF (she's a sucker, and probably paying for it all) during the holidays. Meanwhile, he is a total cheapskate with our kids (my daugheter sees right through it), and whines because they don't seem to be close to him. The OW will be leaving her 2 small children over Christmas, again. This is a sick couple.
But back to you, take care, and best wishes for tommorrow. -Star

[Guest]

I have been watching this board and the N -Partners board.  Jaded, you have communication/anger problems.  You are too ready to attack, be crass and or vulgar.  Unfortunately for me, you have made this board unsafe and I don't plan on coming back here.

I am also unhappy with what happened on N-partners. Without the rest of you, it just isn't as good as it was.  So I now feel I have no place to go.  This board is aptly named Voicelessness, it muzzled me.

Hope, I am sending you all the positive vibes I can.  I think of you often.  


Bye