Father's Day 2005

[Dazza]

If this were a talk radio show, I'd begin by saying, "First time caller, long time listener...."

After reading many of your moving posts, I've decided to throw my hat into the ring and ask how you're going to deal with Father's Day.

Me? Well, I am keeping a safe distance from my N dad. There is no other option for me.

What about you?

[mum]

Welcome Dazza.  

I think you will get lots of support here, as it seems many are dealing with N parents, or the fallout of having had one...
Good for you for keeping distance.  I know from what my kids are going through, how very hard it is to feel ok about that.

I will spend father's day remembering what a great dad (now deceased) I got to have, while my children spend the day with the biggest Nidiot in North America.  (Ok, the western states, because Mia's ex might have a hold of the east coast!)

Sending you welcomes and lots of light.

[Guest2]

This is a good question.  For everyone, even those whose parents are dead, this type of holiday is fraught with booby traps. Forgive my writing.

I will just pass on a comment made by my best friend in high school, as I agonized over what to get my father for his birthday:  "What did he get you for your birthday?"

This comment made me realize that often I got nothing, and my father would later, much much later, say that he forgot my birthday.  "When is you birthday again?"  He asked me many times until I finally caught on that he should have known, he perhaps did know, but it was of no importance to him.

I have digressed.   I am saying to look at it from the otehr side.  What did your dad do for you on your birthday or mother's day or whateve special occasion when you should have been able to expect a thoughtful gift?   What would he do for you in your place if you were the father?  And act accordingly when you select his reward.

[mudpuppy]

Welcome Dazza,

I ditto what mum said, right down to the good and kind deceased dad I also had.
But you have plenty of company here with others who have Daddy Dearest stories to share. It will be interesting to compare father's day posts with the mother's day ones.

Hey mum,

Maybe you and Mia could get your exes all steamed up about who the biggest N is. Maybe start a grudge match.
You know like Godzilla versus Gamera.  One behemoth jerk from the west coast; one colossal ass from the east, the ground trembling under their big cheesey feet. Grappling for supremacy they both fall (in slow motion of course) into the sea and sink to the bottom.    
Of course the problem with that is Godzilla never seems to croak.

mud

[mum as guest]

ok, in that case, Mia's ex can be Godzilla!!! (hi, Mia )

[Bliz]

What was the name of the ficticious greeting card company created here for Mothers Day?  Hellmark?

"Happy Fathers Day" from Hellmark

[crookedtree]

I am undecided as to what to do for father's day - I think I'll create something, ie: something real, as opposed to the usual illusion of a happy holiday!  
I learned how to knit this winter.  I was originally thinking of selling scarves after I knit them - but that would bring me in about 25 cents an hour profit     Maybe I'll revisit my college days and make smelly candles.  
As an aside, and following the mention of birthday presents earlier in this thread (and incidentally that old thread of the most narcissistic things said ever) my mother told me for my birthday this year that she had forgotten my birthday, which is why I didn't get a present... but she then went on to say that she later remembered my birthday but decided not to get me a present.  I am happy to say that instead of asking why, I laughed, and it was sincerely funny to me.   She didn't laugh, which made me laugh more.
So this father's day, I wish you all a happy create a day - create what you want for yourself for that day...

[Dazza]

Thank you all for your warm greeting to the board...I look forward to exchanging ideas and offering support!

It took me a long time to figure out what was wrong with my family. And for years, I didn't have a clue.

My conflict came to a head about six years ago over a relationship that my N mother, N father and N sisters didn't accept.

Despite the fact that I am a responsible, educated, and accomplished adult, they proceeded to stalk and harass me. My mother said some of the most terrible things, and her horrible words (like her voice), will always echo in my mind.

Adding insult to injury, they showed up at my office looking to pick a fight with me in front of my co-workers, called my landlord and said that I was a drug dealer and was living with a prostitute, threw out many of my prized possessions (and car!) that were at my parents' house, called me at all hours to pick fights...and this is just what happened in the first month.

I couldn't eat or sleep or function, so I went to a counselor to try and sort things out. After a few sessions, he said that people in my parents' age group often act in this manner. Huh? I told him that he had to be kidding, but he was serious. I then asked about my N twin sister. We were born at the same time, raised in the same environment, attended the same school, etc.....we could be a case study! His explanation was weak.

The following week, I told the counselor that this was my last session. He became flustered and said that I needed weeks of exit sessions, etc. "You're not ready," he begged. Despite his shameful plea, I thanked him and left.

By luck, I found a new counselor. Within five minutes of the first session, she said that I come from a N family and couldn't believe that I wasn't like them at all. I knew what N was, but didn't know the full ramifications of the disorder.

(Side note: When I asked my new counselor about what she would do/say when I decided to leave, she said, "I would wish you all the best and would be here should you decide to come back." Good answer.)

From there, I learned a lot about N and maintained a silent distance from my family. I also had to distance myself from a few other people in my life who were N.

After five years, I agreed to talk to them again last year under certain conditions. Studying N, reading about it and discussing the past gave me a better framework...but it was hardly perfect.

Two months ago, I was forced to distance myself again as they were all up to their old tricks again....too long of a story to tell, but I had to protect myself.

This all brings me back to the topic of my initial post about Father's Day. Holidays are/were always a tough time for me, and I am often bitter how they've tainted several days of the year for me. I understand why they do it, but it doesn't make this bitter pill any easier to swallow.

[Anonymous]

Wecome Dazza:

Good for you for laying those boundaries and enforcing them.   Sometimes, it's all that can be done to look after you.

I understand why they do it, but it doesn't make this bitter pill any easier to swallow.

Is their behaviour is the bitter pill?  You don't have to swallow it.  You can spit it out, if you want to.  You don't have to take their pills.....or accept their actions in any way or form.

You have your own life and self to look after.  I say.....leave their behaviour, their mess....to them.  It's good that you understand why they do it but that doesn't mean you have to continue to take it.

Good for you for posting here!  One more time....welcome!!

GFN

[mudpuppy]

Hi again Dazza,

Stormchild posted a website on the 'what helps' board that might give you even more insight into your familiy's dynamics and maybe yourself.
You sound like you might be the 'wise child' described on the site.
I'm sure you already know this, but by being normal and leaving their little system of denial you are making it really hard for them to keep the denial up. To them you're threatening their web of weirdness with exposure. So you're being stalked and punished for betraying their sick little world.
Me too. Not much fun, huh?

I pasted that URL below if you want to take a look. It sure explained a lot to me.
http://www.angriesout.com/grown20.htm

mudpup

[mum]

Hi, Again, Dazza: I read the "bitter pill" to mean that is the state of things and you have accepted it....even though it's unpleasant.  I'm sorry.
Holidays were always a wonderful time when I was growing up...all of them.  I'm sorry that holidays are painful for you instead.

My ex either remembered them or not, depending (I think now..) on whether he had some guilt...then I got expensive things. But the "feeling" of holidays that I remember from my youth was never there, and I am sorry for my kids as well. I do what I can, myself, to make things special, though.  For instance, I see father's day through my children's eyes, so I help them get or make something for their dad.  It's really so they feel good....if it were up to me, I'd leave a bag of flaming poop on his porch!

He never helps them get anything for me....they are now old enough to do things alone, but I usually tell them Mother's day is happy just because I get to be their mother (and then they clean their rooms!!).  I think they feel a little bad, though, as if they haven't been at my house right before a holiday, they have no time to prepare.

So, maybe, like me, you could take care of your child (inside) and do something nice for some older man you know....or don't know...
This is so far fetched....don't know if I could do it, but at my mom's nursing home, I see old men with no one to visit them, no one to sit and talk or send them something. Maybe that could translate into an anonymous gift to an old soldier's home...who knows.  All I know, is father's day isn't really about having a great father...it's more about being a great kid.

I think you are a great kid, because you have detached from the drama and dysfunction.  No small feat.

[Dazza]

Thanks again to all of you for sending so much positivity my way!  

GFN, you are totally right about the bitter pill I refer to. They are the sick ones, not me.

Down deep, I will always wish that I had a normal family. I try to not get too lost in that feeling, and sometimes it is easier than others. That sentiment is always heightened around a holiday, and that is ironic as most holidays were pretty terrible for me.

Mudpup, you are so right about being the 'wise child.' I read this amazing book called "CHILDREN OF THE SELF-ABSORBED" that briefly discussed the role reversal of a child playing parent to a N. That was the role I played for most of my life.

And yes, they do feel threatened because I am fairly open about my relationship with my family and they don't like that at all.  

Fortunately for me Mudpup they haven’t harassed me this time around. I wish you all of the strength in your personal situation.

 [/b]

[Anonymous]

Hi Dazza,

And yes, they do feel threatened because I am fairly open about my relationship with my family and they don't like that at all.

It might or might not make it worse to be open about them. Sometimes the truth being disseminated causes them to withdraw in the hope the truth will stop being told.
The problem with these weirdos is, its just the fact of you crawling out of the swamp that constitutes the threat.
Even if you never said a word about them you would still be a threat, because you are a challenge to the lie they all know they are living.
Its either attack you or confront the mess of their own lives.
Thats an easy choice for an N to make.
They will NEVER admit to making a mess of their lives.
Its so much easier to try and make everyone else as miserable as they are.  

mudpup

[Dazza]

Mum, I think you offer some wise advice.

From what you've described, you've taken the high road with your ex and that should be acknowledged. Seeing a holiday through your children's eyes is something wonderful and could be so easily overlooked as a great solution. It takes a person of character to act so strongly.

Funny that you mention visiting a nursing home....

Before I recently cut ties with my family, I mentioned to my mother that I was thinking of doing some volunteer work, like visiting the elderly, etc. My mother looked at me like I had three heads and said, "You don't have to visit strangers, you should be visiting us more!"

Where most normal, grounded parents would encourage their child to do some good in their community, she took the opposite viewpoint. Why? Because it wasn't about her.

So last night I did my first volunteer gig for a city job's program. I helped an older, downsized woman polish up her resume and coached her on some basic interview skills. My client was super-nice and most appreciative.

A few minutes ago, my friend (who, after being a volunteer for 2 years, is about to take a job at a non-profit) e-mailed me and inquired about last night's volunteer session. I replied that it went well, but that I felt that I didn't do too much. I mean, all I did was listen to her and provide some basics.

My friend replied with this quote:

Margaret Mead said, "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

Inspirational words to live by, indeed.

[Dazza]

Hey Mudpup:

When I refer to my situation, people around me know about my families' actions. I don't go telling everyone per se, but I can't deny it.

For years, I felt a lot of shame about their actions and the conflicts that they caused for me. From the most minor (routinely getting into arguments with staff and people in stores/supermarkets/parking lots) to major (calling a girlfriend and telling her that she had better watch out), it's not healthy for me to bottle up anything.

The irony is that when I was estranged from them for so many years, they constantly complained/sobbed/grieved to my sisters that everything would be better if I were around.

So I came back. And when the honeymoon was over, they went back to their mean, hateful, judgmental, self-centered, manipulative ways. I know that I can handle myself; I just worry about my two young nephews who are exposed to all of the mania.

And Mudpup, you are so right that they'd never admit that their lives aren't so great and that my parents and sisters are scared people who are so afraid of being inferior.

Dazza