intro- Fear of becoming like Nparents

[gl]

Fear of becoming like my Nparents has driven me back into therapy.  This board helped me to realize that empty feeling I get after speaking to my parents isn't just me being too needy.  That it is not normal for my mom to seek attention for her illness every single time someone else is ill.  The reality that both of my parents are N is so overwhelming, but even as a child I knew something was not right.  I recall crying myself to sleep asking myself, "Why did they have me." They enablabled one another and blamed us for all their problems, because they are never wrong.  I am tired of fearing my parents.  I am in my midthirties and need to grow up, being a psedomature child in the past has robbed me of so much.
      Thank God for my niece and nephew.  Playing with them in my own home we got to make messes and scream like children should be allowed to.  This summer we eat lots of junk food, something that was forbidden when I was growing up.  The food issues I now face are overwhelming.  Growing up the household revolved around my father's needs.  I always thought our life would be better if mom left him.  Now I realize she enabled him and she has become a N herself.  I now live in fear of being like them.
     I was married to a N for four years and I am recovering from that experience.  I am hopeful.  

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[rosencrantz]

Welcome gl - glad you have posted.  The topic is one that has been bothering me, too.  

I cannot 'play' - whenever my husband and son play creatively I find myself trying to 'perfect' what they are doing.  Triple groan!  I'm trying not to hate myself and just keep my mouth shut instead.  But I still make them self-conscious just by walking into the room.  Still, a few months ago I wouldn't have been able to put words to the experience so I am a few steps forward!!  I meant no harm - I was just trying to join in but didn't know how!! (Weepy, weepy). So you have a gift if you can play and have fun.

We have so much N in us, however far we have progressed - the difference is that we just might be brave enough to look and see how much and then take steps to change.  On the other hand, we probably berate ourselves for N-ness where there is none.  It's VERY difficult to see alone, and yet we've learnt to mistrust the views of 'the other'.  It makes me dizzy!

But I share with you in hopefulness!
R

UPDATE (2 years on!) Now I know, as they had Aspergers in common, that it had much to do with us living on two different planets, trying to play by different sets of rules!

[CC]

soooo true.  Same worry here. One thing for sure though, you are not a true narcissist if you are capable of EMPATHY.  Don't know if this helps. but if you find that in yourself, take comfort that though we may carry on some N traits, our empathy will prevent us from hurting people too significantly.  Our empathy will help us heal, and learn new behaviors that are not destructive to others.

I do the same thing as R.  Always perfecting.  I slip into the controlling and manipulative behaviors sometimes with my poor husband, or my stepdaughter.  Even my Nmother!  The difference is that I can look backward and see it, and take responsibility for it, apologize, and tell them how I really feel about them.  I can look them in the eye, and say (and truly feel)  "I'm not perfect, but I'm trying hard to be better"  - and take steps to prevent it in the future.  My N mother cannot.

I bet the two of you can do that too, and that is the difference between you and a true narcissist.

[g l]

Thank you Rosencrantz and CC for validating my concern.   I do have empathy for how other people feel, something my parents seem to lack.  

     I'm guilty of making my younger sister nervous and self-conscious as well.   I used to pick up when I visited, as my mom still does.  Now I ignore the mess and focus on speaking to my sister.  People and meaningful conversation are more important than a little pile of toys. My mom does this nervous cleaning thing every time we have a holiday. It makes people  so uncomfortable. There is a difference between friendly helping and being a control freak about it.  I fight that control freak in myself daily because deep down mom believes she is helping and that we are just not grateful.
 
     I do grieve for my poor mom because her mother treated her like a maid not a daughter.  Poor mom just does not have some maternal skills that other ladies do.  I hope and pray this cycle will end with my sister and me.

[Nic]

I had to perform..thank God I was a messy kid!  I'm not a perfectonnist at all..BUT..I was knocked down by my parents for having too much empathy and sympathy for others.  " Oh Nic is too generous..he can't handle money"  They capitalized on saying I was irresponsible.  And of course I was on a few occasions like anybody.  My parents shamed me alot and continually..sor for a long time I lost myself..i became a pleaser.
What scares me the most is when someone else shames me or laughs at me and/or misinterprets me..I get this feeling in the pit of my stomach..I feel a "rage" coming on really I do and it hurts real bad..I can identify that now and keep it under control..but man it's an ugly feeling.  I don't turn it against someone else now ( like my friends when I was a kid) but inwardly..I get this sense of self loathing and tend to isolate myself.
Working on it...
Nic

[Neko]

My mother never played with us, I only ever saw her "play" with babies - as if humans had to be completely helpless for her to feel comfortable around them. I guess I was lucky, because I had a lot of younger cousins growing up and we were always left to ourselves: those fun experiences outweighed seeing my mom's contempt for games. I love to play, and I'm thankful for that - however...

I too have that drive to perform, and a huge sensitivity to shame, people laughing at me and being misintepreted - Nic, your words really hit home! I enjoy playing games with friends, but whenever I make a bad move and people laugh (friendly and part of the game!) while they take advantage of the opening, I feel like I've been skinned alive. The same thing happens whenever I make a mistake at work too, no matter how small - I accept that I messed up and take responsibility, but my first, automatic reaction is a sinking feeling that I've once again demonstrated I'm a failure. Of course I know it's not the case and I'm overreacting because of my upbringing, but I'm so tired of having that first desperate reaction. It's slowly getting better as life proves to me I'm in no danger. Takes a lot of work though.

[Tinkergirl]

Hi all...

I can't imagine any healthy (or working on it!) child of an N doesn't have a fear of becoming like their parents.  Like the previous poster said, if you can empathize, recognize, and apologize when the behavior does hit (which I think is normal to an extent)....then therein lies the HUGE difference between you and your N.

I was recently reminded by a dear childhood friend that I was never allowed to 'lounge' in the morning after our little girl sleepovers; i was always summoned to clean the oven or some other random chore that could have waited...but my N mother couldn't stand the idea that I was having a fun, leisurely 8-year old morning while she had to do the grown-up work in the house by herself.  I too remember every time I mentioned I didn't feel well my mother would have a bigger, better story about her ailments and basically told me to get over mine, for they would never be as important as hers (I suppose that is one reason I never told her I started my 'monthly bill'...I couldn't take her stories about it (sorry guys)...I wonder if she ever wonders if I got it now that I'm in my 30's????!!!!)  

Anyway, by the mere fact that you are all on this board on the road to self-discovery, you should ALL be less worried that you will ever truly become an N.  You already care way too much about your lives and how you affect others to become like them.  Peace.

[Guest22]

Hi, i just found this board and am loving reading all about you all -- not so much that you are going through such difficult times because of irresponsible people you are unfairly saddled with -- but because you are all so real in your pain and suffering. I'm surprised by what i just said - real - but phaps that's because i just broke up with my (i just realized it) N boyfriend/fiance of 5 yrs and moved back (i did think about this!) to the house i grew up in, which i am now sharing with my two Nparents. (I'm sure about my father, not quite sure whether my mom is an N-enabler or has now shifted to full-blown N-dom)

The fear of becoming them that has been discussed was one in my own mind, too -- although the rational side of my mind was telling me what some of you have said, that if we are concerned about this, it is unlikely that we will end up entirely as bad.

What i am now terrified of is that i will, once again fall back into the familiarity of falling for an Nboyfriend. It is exciting to be swept off one's feet, as i was years ago. (Now i realize that the exhilaration lasted very briefly, whereas the mess and trauma endured and worsened)

I met someone before i packed my bags and came back (just in case you all think i am absolutely crazy, i think i needed to revisit the horror of my parents, but on MY terms and make sure i never forget their pettiness/stupidity/smallness and moreover, never succumb to their guilt again, unless it is convenient to me in, for example preventing huge outburts/drama/raging fits)
And while our currrent situations in life are all wrong for a 'relationship', he has been incredibly supportive and warm and caring ... Of course, having spent the last few days reading and reading about Ns and how they operate, i am worrying and doubting myself and, let's be frank, berating myself, for ever having opened up to him
There is no urgency to this particular situation, because he is miles away. And that is a relief because i can't untangle the messy knot of my emotions any time soon, but i am wondering if any of you have ideas/suggestions/experiences of how to break out of the pattern of being attracted to Ns
Sometimes i wonder if it was just bad luck on my part, but if i think about my other relationships, they are uncomfortably similar to the horrible patterns that indicate the presence of an N (then again, both my parents were Ns and i had absolutely no idea until last year ... so rather than some self-destructive impulse, i think it had more to do with what was familiar and what i was (well!) brought up to do -- make others feel better, ignoring the cost on myself.

Thanks again for all your posts.
Guest22

[Sallying Forth]

I too remember every time I mentioned I didn't feel well my mother would have a bigger, better story about her ailments and basically told me to get over mine, for they would never be as important as hers ...

This brought back several memories of my childhood where I was very ill and my Nmother wouldn't hear of it.

I could never understand the time I had an extremely painful earache and she insisted we all go to 4th of July fireworks. After all it was our family tradition. You did what mother said and wanted and you had a "good time" whether you really did or not. The memory of the that night is strong. The smell of the grass which was green that year. Normally it was brown and green by July. The smoke of the fireworks. The people all around us waiting for another blast in the sky.  Each sparkling trail sent shivers down my spine as I waited for the possible next boom instead a beautiful, blooming, firework. When I saw it wasn't going to be a sparkle, I'd quickly cover my ears and it would be too late. I would scream out in pain.

My Nmother thought I was enjoying the fireworks. It wasn't until more than halfway through the evening, that she discovered my pain was real. And only when she looked in my ear to find blood there.   She half held me in her arms, angry that I was spoiling a good evening at the park.

I didn't see a doctor until the next day and by that time I was in severe pain.


My Nmother would do dangerous things with my ears too. Her favorite was cleaning my ears out with bobby pins. I didn't realize this was dangerous until I read about some other woman whose controlling mother did that to her. In my case it was "normal" - you know that setting on the dryer?    I accepted what my Nmother said was best because after all she knew what was "best" for me!


Another time I was quite ill with the flu in junior high school. My Nbrother and Nmother told me I was faking it. They teased and mocked my illness. Again my Nmother didn't believe my illness was real until she took my temperature, it was over 104 degrees F. Her remark, "well may be you are sick." Years later I learned about the seriousness of my high fever.

A couple of weeks later my Nbrother got the same flu and she waited on him hand and foot, catering to his every need. If I tried to say anything about him faking it I got yelled at my Nmother and Nbrother.


And still another time I got the German Measles within 8 weeks of my H.S. graduation. My Nmother accused me of feigning illness to miss school because I most likely had a test. Of course I had tests, it was the end of the school year. She sent me to school with a sore throat, high fever and nausea. She never checked my temperature. By noon my Nmother was called to pick me up from the nursing office. I had a high temp, flushed face with spots on my chest and a severe sore throat. She was livid and seething with rage because I interrupted her soap operas and her life! Then accused me of purposely catching G. Measles to cause her such inconveniences.

While weeks before that she actually encouraged me to "catch" it from a girlfriend so I wouldn't get it later on in life and kill my baby. sick, sick, sick

[Brigid]

Guest22,

What i am now terrified of is that i will, once again fall back into the familiarity of falling for an Nboyfriend. It is exciting to be swept off one's feet, as i was years ago.

As a survivor of an N father, nabling mother (both dead) and 2 n ex-husbands I have one important piece of advice.  I think you would be very well served right now to get some therapy to help you sort out the past and how it has affected you.  You need to spend some time now examining yourself and finding that self inside that has been lost.  You are in a vulnerable place right now and could easily become prey to another n relationship.  Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. They seek out people who are in a weakened condition, turn on the charm and draw you in.   Better that you should spend some time alone now, than be like me having spent 22 years in a relationship that has devastated me.  I thankfully have my two wonderful children, but starting over at 55 is a lot scarier than  at your age.  For the first time in my life, I am having to give myself permission to do things that are just for me.  It is not easy to do, but with the help of good therapy, I'm getting there.  I wish you well.

Blessings,

Brigid