I have access to my N's personal email

[Anonymous]

Now here's something that MAY actually be a problem: I am still pretty upset that he caused me this much pain and possibly harm and walked away scott free. I am not happy with that at all. It's time to revisit the What Exactly is Wrong with Revenge thread I started, because I am still wanting some kind of justice.

Society punishes criminals. You commit a crime, you pay for it. What is the difference between that and some approriate form of retribution for a crime of the heart? I am struggling with what would be appropriate in this case. What would feel satifsying? What would put closure on this for me? I don't want him dead or sick. I want him to suffer in proportion to the suffering he caused me. I wish our society had courts for stuff like this.

This makes perfect sense and is very human, but it's also very narcissistic.  This sort of instinct is what causes narcissism-- early in childhood.  And it's what narcissists teach their children in turn.  I guess I'd still recommend reading about what a narcissistic family does to a child as a way to deal with these fantasies.  I only say this because it helped me learn how to deal with that kind of anger.  

Earlier someone mentioned that the thread was split on whether reading this guy's e-mails was ok.  That really scares me. It just isn't ok, no matter what-- using arguments that it's ok because of what the reader wants or needs is really narcissistic.  

One thing that worries me about this board is it sets us all up as the judges, complaining about those N others.  It doesn't seem allowed to suggest alternatives to the "they are terrible" line of reasoning-- which I am not sure helps any of us.  Some of this is our fault, too-- if only because we picked them/let them affect us.

[Anonymous]

Earlier someone mentioned that the thread was split on whether reading this guy's e-mails was ok.  That really scares me. It just isn't ok, no matter what-- using arguments that it's ok because of what the reader wants or needs is really narcissistic.

Well it doesn't matter whether the vote count was for or against reading his email. She has stopped doing it. All the musing about whether or not it was okay was basically people processing their feelings.

 

One thing that worries me about this board is it sets us all up as the judges, complaining about those N others.  It doesn't seem allowed to suggest alternatives to the "they are terrible" line of reasoning-- which I am not sure helps any of us.  Some of this is our fault, too-- if only because we picked them/let them affect us.

There are posters in this group suggesting alternatives to the "they are terrible" line of thinking.

And some people are just finding out about narcissism and a lot of feelings are coming up. And some people had such nightmarish childhoods that they have to keep processing and processing. And they may need to do this polarizing stuff. It's just people processing feelings. That's how I see it.

bunny

[Anonymous]

You're right-- there really are stages to all of this!  And it definitely doesn't all go linearly (I've had my share of going around in circles....)

[Moira]

Hi! Boy can I relate to your feelings and horrific experience with your n. I too had very crazy making and scarring experience of relationship- my term as N's are incapable of any relationship-. I ended it a few weeks ago and kicked him out. I was at the point where I was losing my sanity and my health. My n., like yours, was a somatic N. I discovered a whole secret life involving his life long preferred sexual activity involving countless hours daily masturbating to porn, sex chat rooms and phone services( pardon the pun!). Then I began to - intellectually- get what was happening to our relationship and sex life. This has been the strangest trip I've ever been on and it has completely screwed up my own sexuality. I endured the intense seemingly whole and loving sex life in the beginning. It quickly degenerated into months of no sex under the guise of impotency caused by his antidepressants- then he got Viagra- not for us- but to continue his masturbating to porn. More often than not there was an enduring and escalating patttern of his sexually frustrating and punishing me in a very twisted sadistic sense. He would begin playing around and when I was aroused, he'd look at me and smile- " goodnight"- and roll over- even though he had an erection. Theses behaviours are text book examples of behaviur by a somatic N. I was merely a vessel for him to masturbate into.I was and had been aall along, just  an object. However the adoration and the beginning declarations of " this is the best sex I've ever had" turned into, with lightening speed, being devalued and criticized for the same qualities he so allegedly found vital and " different from any of my other women". I am now totally questioning my own sexuality and trust issues.I feel especially weirded out- and likely inappropriately guilty- because I incorporated clothes and role play into our sex life in the beginning which I have with most of my other healthy relationships. Little did i know at the time that I was objectifying myself into his porn fantasies and that's why he could always respond sexually- not to me, but to the stilettoes etc. I'm so freaked out now fixated on restricting myself- in future- to white bread sex as I'm terrified of this happening again. and I can't trust it won't. bottom line- the N. carefully picks and grooms their prey- that's all we are and that's all the N. is capable of being- a predator- and they cannot change. They have zero empathy and think there is nothing wrong with them so why go into therapy or change for anyone else? It's totally understandable that we survivors get stuck in the incredible mourning phase- more intense than any of your other relationships- exactly because the N. learns all your buttons and promises the world and seeming unconditional love. You think you'll never find that again- although you never did- and you're brainwashed into believing You are the one with the problems. Get back into the life you likely let slip away- reconnect with friends, seek out supportive people who won't judge you as a weak person, get back into activities you enjoyed and found nourishing, explore new avenues. I'm just starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. even though we know intellectually life will improve and you deserve happiness. The fear and anxiety and incredible sadness are overwhelming due to the crushing blow to your heart and soul. this is so empowering and healing to connect here with others. Hang in there.

[Moira]

Hi- a few comments on this access to email. My N gave access to one of his emails- denied having any other accounts, however through this one I discovered at least 50 others. He said " I wouldn't have given it to you if I didn't trust you and now you can see I have nothing to hide". My N. is a sex addict , a fact I stumbled into. i'm the first person in his life to discover the double life. He is 52 and has been compulsively masturbating daily for hours to internet porn, sex chat room, phone sex etc. for a somatic n. this is their only method of sex- preferred to sex with a real partner. Sex with a real women is nothing more than using her for a vessel to masturbate. N's are masters of provoking you and when I confronted him with his addiction, I was told I was delusional, psychotic etc. He made calls to friends, my family and my shrink alleging above. He delighted in then spending time manufacturing " evidence" that would " prove I was the liar". Months of no sex- sexual anorexia, short bursts of intense sex just to keep you hooked and abuse you, and endless cycles of sexual sadism and frustration. I spent countless hours surfing his email, reading and then delting really disgusting stuf, obsessing till it was destroying me. Checking his email became my addiction. Typical co dependent behaviour. My N. also knew and exploited my OCD knowing I'd help drive myself nuts as well as provide him with endless entertainment torturing me . I ended it by changing his password. When I no longer could check, I had nothing to " accuse" him of and he had his supply of negative interaction- N's thrive on hostility as adoration as well as mimicing intense love- cut off. Nothing better to shut down a N. than refusing to engage at all and act bored. Hang in there.

[Brigid]

Moira,
As I was reading your first post I had to look to see if my name was attached as the experience is so similar.  My now xnh had all the same issues, but kept it hidden from me for nearly 20 years.  For most of that time we had a very limited sex life with him making all the same excuses.  When he finally decided he was leaving me for another woman, he started admitting to his deviate behaviors--extensive viewing of porn accompanied by masturbation and finally moving on to having an affair.  At one point he was getting testosterone injections, but claimed they didn't make any difference (this was years ago), but finally admitted that they had indeed worked, but he just watched more porn and masturbated more often.  He became impotent with me and eventually started taking Viagra.  Toward the end of the marriage, he would basically have to masturbate himself to an orgasm and would not let me touch him.  My T thinks there are probably many more behaviors he engaged in that I will never know about.  The woman he left me for is married and after nearly 2 years, is still married.  I don't even know if they are still together, but he will probably choose women like that forever more because they are not truly "available" and there is no risk of intimacy. 

I went through a period (at the end when I was stupidly trying to save the marriage), when I allowed myself to dress and behave in ways that would be exciting to him.  We engaged in a great deal of sex during that time because 1. He had already decided he was leaving the marriage and I was no longer his "wife", and 2. Because he could view me as one of the whores in his porn movies and I became, as you said, just a vessel.  The most disturbing part is that his degrading and humiliation of me gave him great enjoyment and pleasure.

Thank God I had a T who could explain all this to me (he did see my xh for 6 weeks) and finally explained that he was an n.  Otherwise, I would probably still be in a state of shock and blaming myself.  I still go to therapy twice a month, but after nearly 2 years have gotten beyond the loss of my marriage and am just concentrating on me now.  I hope you can do the same. 

It is scary to start moving forward and meet new people after this kind of experience.  I do think I have learned a lot in therapy and will be much more aware of the red flags going up.  Only time will tell.

Blessings,

Brigid

[Moira]

Thanks Brigid for your support. when I talk about this with some of my colleagues and friends, they react with shock. They see me as this strong independant woman who is psychiatrically astute. I feel sometimes some of them see me as stupid and weak. How could she choose and then put up with that kind of abuse? i know they don't mean to hurt me by this and frankly I don't blame them for thinking this. That is my biggest question and my bigger fear I may chose another N down the road. This whole sex addiction combined with N. is devestating. My sexuality is in the toilet and my concept of myself sexually is pretty shakey. The thought of sex terrifies me. The thought of trusting a man again terrifies me. I can't even watch anything on TV due to the constant bombardment of sex everywhere. I plan on a hiatus of celibacy and no dating for a long time to figure out this stuff and heal. My mother, who recently died, was a supreme cerebral N. When she died in Feb., my rose coloured glasses were finally knocked off. Considering I am in a helping profession and was the buffer during my childhood between my younger siblings and my mother's crazy making behaviour- it's no wonder I ended up in this relationship. I am finding the codependent group very supportive and educational even though I know this information intellectually and counsel people all day long on it. I am considering seeing a sex therspist who specializes in sex addiction and effects on partners in order to work through my sexual identity issues and fear. sorry about the multiple entries on same topic- am newbie and a computer ludite! Think I have it figured out now!

[Moira]

Hi Brigid! Good Celtic Irish name too! Anyway- interesting how almost identical our stories are eh?! Just one more tidbit- interested if this rings true with you or anyone else with somatic N with sex addiction. One of the first things I found out about his experiences with women was that for his entire sexual life with real women, he has NEVER been able to orgasm or ejaculate. I've never run across this before but something tells me this may not be unusual. When I attempted to discuss this, he, of course, got pissed off saying" What's the problem? All you women are so concerned about it...why?" He then alleged this was due to his having- allegedly- had " some additional work following his childhood circumcision where they had to do a wee bit of extra snipping". Now I'm a nurse and this physiologically makes absolutely no sense! Tellingly he has had NO problem masturbating for hours a day and can have orgasms! how's that for a major psychological hang up and how convenient for reinforcing his sole preferred sex life as masturbation to objects is his only way to get off. Of course, he adamantly denies he can even climax at all through masturbation- although I've witnessed it numerous times when we were having sex- I guess he presumes because I'm myopic I didn't see this! He couldn't ever orgasm even with his myriad hookers, strippers, escorts, teenager, brothers' wives....etc. How screwed up is that??? curious!

[Brigid]

Moira,
I love your name too.  

Well, my xh must have been able to orgasm as he was able to father 3 children (only one went to term) with me.  I'm quite sure I would have insisted on therapy many years ago if that had been the problem--particularly when we were trying to conceive. 

My experience was that over time (and mind you, we were together for 25 years), the sex just kept diminishing to about 5-6 times per year at the end.  When it did happen, it was always initiated by me, quite often it would fail, even with the introduction of Viagra, and more often than not he would manipulate himself to nearly an orgasm before penetration.  It became so bizzare to me and I tried to get him to talk about it and seek therapy, but I always just heard the excuses.  He was taking antidepressants for supposed dysthymia that he blamed, his age (he was 5 years younger than me), stress of work, etc., etc. 

During the entire 25 years, I was completely unaware of his sex addiction.  Only after he moved out did I start to do some investigating and found hundreds of porn website hits, CD's, DVD's, videos, books, toys, etc. hidden in his drawers and closet.  I had always completely trusted him and had never had a reason to seek something other than medical answers to his low sex drive.  I certainly never thought I had to worry about him cheating on me, as he professed to have so little interest in having sex.  He can have it all right, but only with himself or someone who is unavailable emotionally. 

The whole thing disgusts me and I hate that I was so blind to it and trusted him so completely.  He has been and always will be a consumate liar who can ooze charm, but not feel a damn thing.

Brigid