breaches....of conduct; shame; guilt in context of narcissism

[bliz]

Okay, I will go out on a limb here. 

I think October or Vunil said it best.  This nostic person doesnt want help.  His/her "word blender" is a means to seem "better than".  It is narcisstic and we are fueling the flame. 

It is also saying to me, by the activity on the thread, that many are responding in a codependent manner.  By this, I mean endlessly trying to help a person that doesnt want help.  Endlessly trying to understand a person that doesnt want to be understood.  It is a relfection, possibly, of some of the behavior that got us here in the first place.  Pandering to the N and being codependent. 

Disconnect!!  Break free, people!!  You are only fueling his/her illness and your own.

[Sela]

Hi all:

This is quite the discussion!!  I just want to say that I have no idea what Joe/gnostic/shorty wants or doesn't want.  I am also not sure that his way of speaking is N-ish or if it might be some kind of defense system/coping mechanism or some other trick. 

I really believe I am curious about him and would like to understand where he is coming from but....I don't think I am codependent because my curiosity is not endless, nor is my trying to help/understand infinite.  I quit with "best of luck" because there is an end to what I will offer.

I just wanted to say all that because I think many of us have been put down enough that we don't really need more put downs jammed in our cookie jars.  It's ok to be curious.  It's ok to want to understand and help others.  It's ok to offer to try.  But......I agree.....if there is no feeling of communication, no sign of mutual appreciation, no kind of reasonable connection.....for me....it's time to move on.......because

I do think we are fueling the flame by continuing to try to relate to a person who appears uninterested in the kind of relationship we might like with him.  His loss.  How sad.
Maybe another time.

Sela 

[October]

Disconnect!!  Break free, people!!  You are only fueling his/her illness and your own.

I think it is for each of us to decide at what point this becomes appropriate.  I do not think that the answers I have read are at all indicative of 'illness' - more like we are pretty sure it is a waste of time, but are still willing to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who is on a voicelessness site, and who might just be voiceless.

That is not co-dependency, to me.  If we are still doing it in a week's time, maybe it would be.

[gnu's best]

WELL MAYBE NOT THE BEST OF GNUOSTIC IN THIS THREAD
BUT SOME EXCERPT EXCERTPED BY GNOSTIC THE ALIEN CHIMP ITSELF
THAT I THINK MAKES SOME OF THE BASIC POINTS OK..
FOR A KIND OF POP QUIZ REVIEW 
ACTUALLY  ....
WELL ANOTHER ACTUALLY I THINK
IN A WAY MUCH OF THE RESPONSE RECEIVED
TO ME PROVES THAT MY METHOD FOR ME OF SHARING
IS NOT THE ONE RECOMMENDEC BY MANY...
U KNOW THE KIND OF HMMM HOW MIGHT I TERM SOME ASPECTS
OF THE RESPONSE I GOT AND HOW IT......

"HMMMM ABOVE WHERE IT SAYS FOR GUILT IN DEFINITION 1  that it minimally is a breach of conduct IT DOESNT SAY IF IT IS OTHERS CODE OF CONDUCT OR ONE'S OWN AND IT COULD WELL BE FOLLOWING OTHERS CODES OF CONDUCT COULD MAKE ONE GUILTY IN TERMS OF ONE'S OWN CODE OF CONDUCT AND THUS NOT FEEL ASHAMED FOR BREACHING SUCH A CODE OF CONDUCT....
...SO HAVING LAID A WONDERFUL BASIS FOR BETTER CLARIFICATION OF ISSUES...
I SHALL RETIRE TO MY GNOSTIC IVORY TOWER FOR THE MOMENT "

WELL NOW JUST MAYBE PEEPING OUT FOR NOW ...
DEPENDING ON HOW THE FLOW GOES...
SINCE I AM PUT IN MIND OF WHEN JESUS COMMENTED THIS PASSAGE IN ISAIAH
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
... LATER TO HIS RESPONSE OF
Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
AND IN THEIR DISSATISFACTION
ACTUALLY WRATH...
they...rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

...
i suppose a lot of my variations and whimsy
is that i be a bit leary of others thinking they really want to know as they think they do
or another factor enters in
to get into a point into the mind of others most effectively
one best can do this at times under their radar..
thus one is safe
and can get a read on dem without dem necessarily knowin
what one got a read on bout somethin bout dem
that they dont even suspect is true of demselves

yep i be gnostic
and quick like one more thing to the previous post of mine..
another factor of my style at times
be that
i suspect can be at times
when some thing they have some point of understanding
it can actually server to block
what the real understanding that was a developin

after awhile sometimes it seems to be that
often from a subconscious level
things that people are not used to
that they see as effective devices of communication
but has aspects of social assumptions
where actually there are aspects
that block out not seeing that their assumed
devices in part serve as a blocking and clocking device...

THEN ANOTHER FACTOR
BE
THAT WHAT I CONSIDER OTHERS NOT SEEING HOW OFTEN
THE ASSUMED FORMS OF GOOD AGREEMENT
IN PART CAN WELL BE PROMOTING GENERAL SOCIAL BLINDNESS
TO SOME DEEPER ASPECTS
THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT IT DOES NOT HELP
AND THAT I MIGHT BE AT TIME HYPERSENSITIVE TO SUCH
OR THAT AT TIMES I PERCEIVE IT AS HAPPENING IN A FASHION
OR A DEGREE THAT IT ACTUALLY IS NOT ....


Well u c … what fascinates me about humans if in their social  format, something is said as if it is so even if it isn’t that it builds  as if it is actually so… and then I am fascinated to watch how it can keep acting as its observations are the actual state and even so obvious J

A major point that tho others think that the answer that would get to them
Is simple … at times with time I have convinced some that to get them
Is nowhere as simple as they thought and that much of my technique
Was not all that odd and In many ways effective ….
Now now don’t go screamin narcissist at me J
Idiosyncratic tho is fine J

I think u might have some response to this
Ifn I haven’t covered it yet here oh I think I did…
But not maybe exactly in this context
Bout women being the weaker vessel
As being symbolic as to the relationship between conscious and subconscious
..as to which has more power …
many say subconscious but then some get it if I rephrase it as
which has more power the programmer or the program…
well that would be the programmer I think
and if he programs the program correctly then there is the ultimate power…
and just how should the programmer ..the conscious mind..
program the program… well of course according to the true
unchanging eternal principles of the superconscious J

now tho if one fouls up the program by bad conscious choices
it is the subconscious that blocks one from fully expressing oneself..
so in the sense of blocking full power of realization
in a way it is the subconscious but which can always be
changed by a conscious decision …to….

[sj]

Deleted because post was a taunt.  See my post below.

Richard Grossman

[d'smom]

Deleted because of taunt.  See my post below.

Richard Grossman

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi, everyone—

I do not want this thread to deteriorate.  Certainly anyone can read or not read gnostic’s posts.  However, Gnostic revealed himself in this thread:

“I am probably not schizophrenic but idiosyncratic with a tad of schizotypal”

Readers should understand this. 

Gnostic:  I would like you to pick a name and stick with it so that people will have a choice whether to read your posts or not.

Thanks,

Richard

[vunil]

Richard, should we delete the entirety of both threads? I asked this in the other thread, too.  It was a tough "catch" for us to realize what was going on but now that you have pointed it out maybe we should just get rid of the threads and start over?

[CeeMee]

Okay, I am totally confused.  Caught what?  Revealed what?  And why should the thread be deleted?  I am curious as I have just joined this board, got into a brief discussion (or maybe not so brief) about N.  Revealed a lot about myself, and now I am wondering if I've done something wrong too?  Is this board for victims of those suffering from personality disorders and those with the disorders stay away or at least keep quiet?

Ceeme

[miss piggy]

Hi all, just joining the thread now

Ceemee, any board will sometimes have some miscommunication, of course.  But if an individual arrives with the idea of how fun it would be to "headtrip" other posters just for sport, then that would be hurtful and "wrong". 

While lurking, I have read a few comments where posters were asked to explain their actions or justify their feelings in a pretty blunt and insensitive way.  But for the most part, people are careful to inquire in a caring way.  That tone of communication makes all the difference.  Since we are writing and not speaking, word choices and turn of phrase can replace the tonal quality of voice.  Ninety percent of communication is tone and intent vs. content.

As victims of people with PDs, we are all very sensitive to invalidation and needless questioning of personal feelings.  Many survivors have scars that can sometimes trip up our communication, but most people here are pretty forgiving (to a fault, ha!).  But when a pattern of behavior/communication style reveals itself, posters here will call attention to it.  Most times, I think we ask for clarification and give the person in question a chance to revise or hone their style into one that can be received more helpfully.  that is, to encourage relating to each other more helpfully and less painfully.

Hope that clears it up.  MP

[Sela]

Schizotypal

The Schizotypal Personality is often described by others as strange acting and/or thinking.  They have eccentric ideas about the world, may be highly superstitious, and talk frequently about their beliefs.  They often spend a great deal of effort on activities related to magical thinking, clairvoyance, telepathy, or ESP.  They also speak in a metaphorical tone, often coming across as confusing and overly abstract.  They often lack close friends and suffer from social anxieties.  Their presentation is seen as odd, as they often dress in a peculiar manner and come across as suspicious and lacking in emotional expression.

from allpsych.com

[CeeMee]

Thanks for that reply miss P.  It was full of really insightful information.  I would never have gotten that from reading any of the posts.  I appreciate your communicating it to me clearly.  Might I ask for an example of what would be an insensitive probing of feelings? (maybe there is a thread you can refer me to)   I don't know what that could be as I can't say that I have ever seen it on a board.  At least not by my standards.  I'd like a point of reference though, so that I can be more careful with anyone suffering emotional scars and who would like more sensitivity.  Now that you've said that, I'm thinking that in the most recent situation where I thought I was being helpful calling a depressed acquaintence who was in pain from a break up, I did ask a lot of questions.  Maybe they were posed insensitively.  I had NO idea.

The only example I can think of were it was clear to me that the questioner was insensitive probing feelings was on a documentary of the genocide in Rawanda.  Reconciliation hearings were held in the towns.  Victims and perpetrators were brought together to talk about the experience.  There was a group of women victims who were asked how they felt about the man who killed their family members coming to meet with them and living in the same village again.  The women just looked at the reporter and said something like "do you hear what the white person is asking?"  The woman looked at the reporter and said "how do you think I feel?"  I thought that was insensitive of the reporter and yet at the same time I realized that he really didn't know how those women felt and probably never would.

That's an extreme case.  Even I know better than that.  But I am concerned that I don't have the awareness for more subtle situations.  

If I ever had any doubt about being N.  This board has confirmed it for me.  Now the question is, am I on the right board?  

Ceeme

[dogbit]

And why should the thread be deleted?

I'm going to have to back track here.  I don't think it should be deleted.  Dr. Grossman's  comment on cosmic's self analysis was a big light bulb to me.  I spent some time on Google trying to understand what schizotypical behaviour was.  I have a kiddo with asperger's syndrome and her method of communication is, at best, obscure to even me, her mother.  We tend to communicate with icons and symbols and a large benefit of the doubt when in doubt.    .  If cosmic or gnostic wants to post here, then maybe he/she sees some value for him/her to receive our  response .  If it is valuable to him/her, then so be it.   At the time I wrote my original messages questioning cosmic/gnostic's sincerity, I was responding viscerally. ( Not always the most diplomatic approach  .)   I believe MSN has a board that is dedicated to schizotypical disorders...I checked it out.  It seems very supportive.  And I would definitely agree with Dr. Grossman that cosmic/gnostic should use the same name when posting.  

[CeeMee]

Thanks Sela,

Now it is starting to make sense.  What's really interesting is that i totally understood Cosmics response to one of my earlier posts and even went and looked at the websites he referred me to.  I'm wondering if the replies he got and the tone in which they were presented (now that I picked up on Miss P.) contributed to the nature of his responses and their continuation.   The diagnosis aside, I did think he was being ambushed.  The style of his prose is different, but I couldn't pick up anything hostile, arrogant or insensitive in the posts I did read (and most of them I passed on by choice).

If there are any subtle rules that a N should know about to be on this board, please let me know.  I appreciate your clarification here and Miss P's explanation.  Any additional information is appreciated.

A N wanting to Reform

Ceeme

[Sela]

Hi Ceeme:

You're quite welcome.  I had no idea what Schizotypal means and so I looked it up and posted for anyone else who might not know (I hope the info is accurate....I always wonder about that??? ).

Excuse me...and no need to answer if you don't feel like it....but....have you been diagnosed as NPD?

The reason I ask is because just about everybody worries that they are stricken with this disorder, when they begin reading about it and realizing that they have grown up in/lived in an environment with people who have it or seem to....and I'm just wondering if you might be in a bit of a panic about it??

In case you haven't read or heard......we all have N traits and behave in N ways sometimes.  As a matter of fact....some of these are necessary and a part of "normal" development.  I'm not the best person to explain but there are others here who will put it into words more simply than I.

  Sela