landmark

[miss piggy]

Hi Vunil,

I forgot to answer your question about the Moonies.  I don't know if they are still around as an active recruiting group.  Maybe they are underground now.  I haven't kept up.  I know when I was at college, they were still quite active and had several names for their "clubs". 
But that was a little while ago...

As for my cousin, one of my relatives stays in contact with her sister who informs us that she is still living with the same group.  The household she grew up in was exceptionally N, so she was ripe for the picking.  But as one of those articles pointed out, if the member finds happiness there, who are we to judge?  She may be better off, esp. given her upbringing.

Take care, MP

[guestess]

Landmark forum did indeed used to be EST.  The guy who started it, used to be a mucky muck in scientology.  I've known a lot of people involved in Landmark, and I have a deep suspicion of their methods and their principals.  Some of the more destructive narcissists I've run across had their behavior seemingly sanctified by Landmark.

 One voice teacher at my college was disciplined for coercing her students to participate. I had an acting coach who was  a Landmark follower, and he tried to use their methods in his workshops - no breaks for the bathroom, eating.  He also used his position to try and gain sexual favors from the participants, and to behave inappropriatly towards underage females in the class.  His philosophy seemd to be,"If I want it, I should have it", with no regard for his impact on others.  I've seen it have the effect of replacing insecurity and fear with grandiosity and insensitivity.

 I would be very, very leery of becoming involved with Landmark.  They don't use as drastic methods of brainwashing as they used to, but it's still very much coercive.  The long hours, infrequent breaks and social pressure serve to break down a person's natural boundaries and sense of reality, making them very vulnerable to suggestion and pressure.  They also basically require that participants bring more people in to "witness" their transformation, and then encourage them to take longer and pricier classes.  I've been pressured by several people to join up, and they get very grumpy when I say I'd rather give my money to a licensed therapist.

[miaxo]

I never heard of Landmark before but it does sound like your friend is being brainwashed.

Very scary stuff.

Sorry.

[vunil]

An empathetic person can become hardened due to circumstances, but never totally become heartless or lose completely te hsbility to empathize.
   

I'm not sure of this, because I think that N is a defense mechanism to cover shame.  (Well, I didn't make that up-- it's what researchers say about it).  It is a really effective defense mechanism, too.  So, I think that if someone is very insecure then it might be attractive to move into a more N way of being, and then tough to leave it (especially it's supported by the others in the group).  I don't think you can suddenly have NPD, though.

Anyway, as my previous post suggested, I've realized as you say that I should let it go-- it's her life. If things start to get really freaky her other friends and I can try to do something for her, but they aren't really freaky yet (just a little freaky!).  I see everything in all of the posts so far about landmark in my friend-- it's all eerily similar.  It's helpful to hear that others have similar impressions to my impression.  And it definitely echoes scientology.  It also reminds me of Amway!  I have had friends try to get me "into" that, too, and boy are they convinced it is changing their lives.  Maybe it is, who is to say?

It's all very interesting, though, this way that cults (or, groups) prey on people and build them up with N-type stuff-- sort of helps us see where N behavior comes from.  Landmark definitely teaches lack of empathy (for those outside the group, especially).  There is a lot of "I" language in it, and you absolutely have to "buy" everything they are selling or you "don't get it."  Of course all of us not in landmark fall in that group.

But.  She might get something out of it.  And that would be great!

[d'smom]

hi guys  :}

if you are still curious you can check out this website - www.freedomofmind.com.

its run by a leading cult researcher in the US, steven hassan.   ive participated for several years in a discussion group run by him for ex cult members  <im not an excult member but being the target of mind control, i like to study it  - 'undue influence' they call it now>

ive heard them talk about landmark several times and they would probably have it listed, and give specifics about its practices as well as suggestions for responding to a friends interest in any possible cult.

i do agree your friend is an adult and you cant make decisions for other adults = however its also true that these groups are often very deceptive and coercive and dont reveal their true colors til after the person is hooked, <kinda like n's :>  using a number of psych techniches to guilt the person into staying or 'believeing' they are 'happy' (and telling others this) when really, they are very confused.

for instance you couldnt stop a friend from buying a certain car....... its her choice.....  but if you were pretty sure they were using false advertising or selling something dangerous by claiming it was something else, or if you felt she was being coerced or manipulated to comply with something she might not otherwise comply with if she had all the information, you can certainly keep an eye out. 

its a mistake to understimate destructive cult activity as much as it is to underestimate abusive relationships or anything else that involves breaking down a persons normal ability to draw boundaries or exercise free choice.

good luck
d'smom

[plucky as guest]

I'm coming late to this thread, but here goes.  I had a pretty good friend who started Landmark.  I knew nothing about it.  At first it sounded great.  But after receiving a lot of advice from her, based on no knowledge whatever, I got a bit tired.  Then she kept giving me childraising and marriage advice, and this from someone who has never been married, has no children and has not even been around children or ever had a successful relationship.  Her ability to listen had never been great but it really tanked.  I finally told her not to call back any more.  And that was that.
Plucky