Shattered illusions....What now?

[spyralle]

Reasons why i wanted to write my mother a letter:

Becasue if I don't she will be on the phone and the pain of thet very sad voice is horrible

Because I want to let her know that I am here working and doin ok on my own thanks very much

because it is easier than ignoring her because that will make me feel horrible about myself

Because it is the safest way to communicate, and I know that she will be insistent on communication


I kind of know that I am not going to get what I want from the communication.  Even if I did it would all be used against me as ammunition at some point in the near future.  It's not a desire for her to mother me, even though of course I do desire to have a mother I am coming to the conclusion that my mother is not capable of mothering...  I guess that guilt does have a lot to do with it if I am honest.  It is part of this being owned stuff that she has instilled into me.  It's my job to care and look after her...As a daughter you know.  Another part of this I suppose is that leaves just me and my daughter....  What I would give for a big family....  I would so love that.  A few years ago I took my daughter round to  a work colleagues's mothers house for Easter dinner.  It was a huge family and my daughter was so overwhelmed that she burst into tears.  It still makes me cry to think about that.... 

So I guess after meandering on for a while I'm really not sure.  I was really shocked when you asked me that question Amethyst.  I guess that shows that I haven't really got it yet...  It's so bizzarre to think of just not contacting her again...

A very thouhgtful Spyralle xxxx

[amethyst]

Amethyst:
((((Spyralle)))) Your mom is physically strong and very flexible. She uses the weakness/illness/martyr  ploy to get supply from you.

For 30 years my mom has controlled and ruled the family through her “medical condition.” I was told, since I was a child, that she has severe heart condition and is likely to die very very soon, in near future, tomorrow in fact. Our entire family routine – diet, food, sleeping habits, vacations, friends’ visits, everything – was built around mom’s medical needs because she was fragile. My dad would wake up at 5 AM to do prepare special diet food for her before leaving for work, and in general worked his ass off to dochores “urgently and indispensably” needed to maintain her well-being. The devil is now 80 and still going strong, my poor dad passed away, doing some stressful house job for her, urgently needed because of her medical condition of course. After his death, we stopped participating in this medical game, so she stopped using illness as a way to manipulate. We no longer hear of the aches and pains and near heart-attacks she used to get for 30 years.
 
Spyralle, there is no better ploy than capitaziliging on chronic illness on a parent's part to invoke guilt in children.

((((Marta)))) Isn't it just amazing how these invalids that are on death's door everyday outlive everyone in the family?

My mom played the heart attack victim. When I was seventeen, we got into a rip-roaring argument about college. She staggered around and clutched her chest after I had departed to my room in anger and slammed the door. She didn't inform me that she was having chest pain, but had my brother call the ambulance from downstairs. I didn't know anything was wrong until the ambu arrived. I got a boatload of "You almost killed your mother with your terrible temper." for years. Anytime there was the slightest tension, my mom would start popping nitroglycerine.

Truly, my mother did have angina. She had been having mild chest pains for a couple of years but had not bothered to tell anyone or even get it treated. (What a martyr.) However, when I got angry, which probably was the only time I ever did, suddenly the chest pain became excruciating, which may or may not have been true.  What I was told was that she had suffered an MI and had severe heart damage...and that it was all my fault for getting angry. She became a cardiac cripple. Couldn't do anything...although she held down a full-time job. I was a terrible person for going off to college because my role should have been to stay home and take care of my mother.

Years later my mother had an angioplasty to get the crud out of her coronary arteries. I was worried sick because I knew she had a bad heart. Come to find out, Mom's heart was healthy...she had never had an MI. And Marta, you'll never guess how I found out. My mother, who had conveniently forgotten the big heart attack and all the shame and blame I'd taken for blowing my top, bragged to me that her heart was healthy as a horse...no scarring...no signs of an MI.

By then, I was in therapy. I am glad I was. It was a lot of stuff to process.
 

[amethyst]

Reasons why i wanted to write my mother a letter:

Becasue if I don't she will be on the phone and the pain of thet very sad voice is horrible

Because I want to let her know that I am here working and doin ok on my own thanks very much

because it is easier than ignoring her because that will make me feel horrible about myself

Because it is the safest way to communicate, and I know that she will be insistent on communication


I kind of know that I am not going to get what I want from the communication.  Even if I did it would all be used against me as ammunition at some point in the near future.  It's not a desire for her to mother me, even though of course I do desire to have a mother I am coming to the conclusion that my mother is not capable of mothering...  I guess that guilt does have a lot to do with it if I am honest.  It is part of this being owned stuff that she has instilled into me.  It's my job to care and look after her...As a daughter you know.  Another part of this I suppose is that leaves just me and my daughter....  What I would give for a big family....  I would so love that.  A few years ago I took my daughter round to  a work colleagues's mothers house for Easter dinner.  It was a huge family and my daughter was so overwhelmed that she burst into tears.  It still makes me cry to think about that.... 

So I guess after meandering on for a while I'm really not sure.  I was really shocked when you asked me that question Amethyst.  I guess that shows that I haven't really got it yet...  It's so bizzarre to think of just not contacting her again...

A very thouhgtful Spyralle xxxx

Boy, I can relate to wanting that big loving family and to feel as if it was ideal. There is a part of me that still would love that, if it really existed. We used to have big family celebrations and would have looked very loving and functional to an outside observer because everyone was on their best behavior. They were really fun. I guess the best thing we can do as adults is to form our own family of choice.   

For a long time, after my mother and I had reconciled to some extent, when she really was dying, I would write my mom letters like this, Hi Mom, All is well here. ______ and _______ and I are doing fine. Hope all is well with you, Love, Amethyst 

I have pets so I would throw in a cute pet story or two to fill out the letter.  Nothing personal.

I treated phone calls the same way. We were always fine and the pets were always doing something cute. (It's true...our pets are always doing something cute.) 

You said...Another part of this I suppose is that leaves just me and my daughter.... 

It's not just you and your daughter as if you are some old used pair of shoes. When I divorced my parents and my brother, that left me and my daughter as our own family...and since I was the adult, I got a chance to do it differently than before. The truth was, even though I had been loving to my parents, they were not loving to me...so basically it was me and my daughter, even when they were in our lives.

I call it the fantasy bond. We fantasize what we never can have and never have had with our non-loving parents.

[Plucky]

Come to find out, Mom's heart was healthy...she had never had an MI.

You know what Amethyst?  All that concern for her...wasted.  All that pain you went through.....unnecessary.   
Next time.....let the bitch die.
I know this is harsh and I have the whole 'duty to family' thing embedded in me too like a diseased tick.  But where was her duty to you, Spyralle?   Did she fulfill her obligations as a mother?   Which were more significant than yours, as you were a child.   I would have to say no.

So if she starts up her stuff again about how 'fragile' the aerobics instructor is.....think to yourself, 'let her DIE!!!!!'   Hahahahahah.  If you can.   You can say out loud, "that would be awful, but only the Lord knows when our time is come".  Or just something to show that your button is no longer working.

Is having her fulfilling your needs for a family?  Nope.  Is she better than nothing?  Nope.

A mean and awful
Plucky

[vunil]

It's not just you and your daughter as if you are some old used pair of shoes. When I divorced my parents and my brother, that left me and my daughter as our own family...and since I was the adult, I got a chance to do it differently than before. The truth was, even though I had been loving to my parents, they were not loving to me...so basically it was me and my daughter, even when they were in our lives.

And, this is the magic part-- when you have space in your life because she isn't using up so much of it and you aren't worried about her/bothered by her. other folks will come into your life. I don't know how or why it happens, but it does.  And the new folks are healthier and better for you and more fun to be around.

[amethyst]

It's not just you and your daughter as if you are some old used pair of shoes. When I divorced my parents and my brother, that left me and my daughter as our own family...and since I was the adult, I got a chance to do it differently than before. The truth was, even though I had been loving to my parents, they were not loving to me...so basically it was me and my daughter, even when they were in our lives.

And, this is the magic part-- when you have space in your life because she isn't using up so much of it and you aren't worried about her/bothered by her. other folks will come into your life. I don't know how or why it happens, but it does.  And the new folks are healthier and better for you and more fun to be around.

That is so right Vunil. This gets back to loving ourselves and being able to take care of ourselves enough to disentangle from abusive parents and to heal from a lifetime of pain, lies, and feeling we are not worthy.

There is a hackneyed old expression that happens to be true-"You can't love anyone until you learn to love yourself." We children of trauma often confuse need with love. Once we got that need/love thing straightened out, much better people come into our lives.

There is a guy in recovery who does workshops. His name is Terry Gorsky. He is absolutely hilarious while speaking absolute truth. Somewhere in this house I have an old tape from one of his presentations. He talks about relationships and how we complain about how we attract these horrible people into our lives. When I first heard his tapes, I found myself reacting with anger. I mean, I was such a victim, so beaten down, such a good and deserving person, and I NEEDED and DESERVED healthy functional relationships, dammit, so why couldn't those darn people that I attracted straighten up and behave the way I wanted them to??? I was having a real tantrum in my head, which is a good clue to me that there is something I need to learn in the message that I'm pinging about.  Heheheh. One of the things he said is,"If your elevator doesn't rise to the top most days, the people that are attracted to you will be those that get off at the same floor." OUCH!!!! He goes on to say that the most important work we can do is to make sure our elevators are rising to the top....and it's an inside job.

I will tell you a funny story. When I first got into recovery, the only men that approached me were in AA, which would have been ok if I'd had some long-term sobriety and they had too. Instead, I was attracting guys new to AA who had been in jail, who had not completed highschool, who were pretty rough. They were nice guys and really trying to straighten out their lives, but they were definitely not my type. Also, I had put a total moratorium on any dating for as long as it took me to recover because I knew that dating and relationships could get me into a WHOLE bunch of trouble. And I'd chosen so well with my previous husband...the last thing I conciously wanted was somebody with a rap sheet, borderline illiteracy, and two weeks sobriety...lol. At least I was healthy enough to realize that.   

I went to my therapist and said,"What gives? Where are these people coming from?" She said,"Do you think that maybe these guys are just a rawer, less educated, less polished version of your dad and your ex? You are sending out signals (at that point she made her fingers into antennae or deely-boppers and waved them, which cracked me up) that you need dangerous men. You gotta think about why that is. You are sending out NEED signals. You are confusing strong with dangerous. You need to work on getting strong in yourself and you will find that these guys will disappear." She was right.

Men still come up and talk to me...they want to be friendly. Nowadays they seem to be bookish nice guys with a sense of humor, kind of like my husband. 

I have found that whatever I haven't worked on and resolved in myself will be reflected in my relationships.

 

[spyralle]

This is mystifying to me.  i knew you lot were pretty strong but his is a whole new dimension for me to think about.  Even though I am currently keeping away from my mother because of her feelings towards my daughter, I cannot imagine never having her in my life.  This has come as a complete surprise to me that that is actually a option.  i guess the way she has conditioned me to see it is that I am hers, so nomatter what I belong to her and have a duty to her.  During my life this has meant that she can pretty much say to me what she wants.  i remember she came to stay with me and I cooked a chilli.  She sat at the table and had a forkful and said.  "The food's not so good here is it"....  Like we were sitting in a restaurant....!!!  Or she will often giive me smiling attack.  She is quite obsessed with my breasts and for a long time has been berating me because I am flat chested....Like I care or it's my fault.....  She has offered to pay for surgery.  I'm just sitting here thinking that if she carries on I'm gonna be somebody completely different.....  I remember writing a song when I was younger and the chorus went

So I ask you now if I'd changed my face
Or the colour of my hair
Would it have been fair to be
Someone......
So different to me

This thread is really bringing up some fascinating stuff for me.... so if I keep jumping off at tangents it's just because one thought will remind me of things I haven't thought about for years.  i believe my mother wanted a trophy daughter and my ex wanted a trophy g friend.  I have never been much good at being a trophy.  It's very boring standing still on a shelf!!!!

My mother always used to get me to perform to her visitors...  Even (i'm ashamed to say) in my thirties....  I would have to sing a song or do a dance or...once a had to perform a step aerobics routine for the man who had come to pick the olives.....  God I must have looked stark staring bonkers.  It is making me laugh thinking about it.  My mother would often perform as well, smiling this fixed smile like a pageant queen, doing whatever.... 

It's no bloody wonder I've ended up in this state.  Can't have my hair up, too scruffy when it's down, Dresses just don't suit me....  Or she would look at me in a dresss and say...."Well you would choose that...It's so very you....meaning you look like s**t.....  When I used to visit her in Spain I used to take every item of clothing I possessed in an effort to find the right something.  If i did have something she liked...She wanted it!!

But until now It never felt abusive.  It just felt like I was ugly and so nothing would look good.  What a bloody waste of forty three years.  When my dad was dying, my mother told me to tell anyone who asked that I had come to Spain to support her rather than say I had come for my dad.

Maybe you lot are right.  maybe the best bet would be just to walk away.  Least then I wouldn't be getting judged all the time...  How liberating would that be...  But this is the big problem, everything that she has said to me has stuck like superglue...  I'm trying to be a better person and do the right things and I wonder what it would be like to cut my own mother out of my life.  It would make me feel like a bad person all over again.......  Would it...

Spyralle x

[vunil]

OH, my, I agree with you she is a waste of time!

You can not see her for awhile without it being a forever sort of thing where you banish her from sight.  It can just be a temporary reprieve from her-- say for three months or something.  Ah, what a relaxing three months THAT would be!  I try to imagine you doing your step aerobics for the olive-picker and it is just really funny, and also sad-- how frenetic, how nerve-wracking.  I wonder what he was thinking!

I took a month off from my family.  I told them I was going to do it, and they fought it at first (testing me, I realize now, to see if it was possible to get me to not do what I said I would do) but I stuck to my guns. I had an excuse (I was going through medical treatment) but you can always make something up--- you need a little space because you are starting a new project at work, your therapist told you to take some time off, or whatever.  You can also just not tell her-- she will be busy with whatever she is doing anyway.  Without her supply from you she'll find it from someone else.

My point is, it doesn't have to be a dramatic declaration for all time. It can just be for a short time.  Even a month, like I did, is very refreshing.   Like going to the spa

The fact that thinking about doing it sets you into a panic may be telling in and of itself.  I just bet it would be a lot more fun, and a lot more stress-reducing, than you ever imagined. 

[Plucky]

I'm just debating whether or not to write her a letter.  After the birthday card asking to know how I was I know it will not be long before I have an answerphone message from her sounding in the depths os despair.

 

If the reason is to forestall her reaching out to you, by all means.  Send her a note in the snail mail.   Don't say anything!  Just, Thanks for the card.  Don't even say, I hope you're well. 

I am also debating whether or not to tell her my ex has left.  That will sent her off into space and I will have the full works about how silly I was and what a fool I am and then she would go on about how I should be more of a housewife type and make sure all the washing and ironing is up to date and he should have had a meal on the table at the same time every night.

Well, I think the answer is obvious.  No?

And then she will go on about money and how he only wanted me for my house, which could very well be true, (I daren't tell her that he has stolen the 25,000 off me, because she will see that as her money.  As she has given me so much money, what is mine then becomes hers!!!!!

 

More accurately, YOU are hers.   In her sick mind.  Again, you have no reason to tell her anything.

So say she bought me an item of clothing, which would never be something I wanted....What she wanted to see me in....  She would then look for it every time she came over and say I had lent it to someone, or actually given it away, she would nearly have a nervous breakdown.

All the more reason to buy and wear your own clothing.  Of course she will not buy you anything that looks good on you, then how would she berate you for being unattractive?    This is what my mom does when I give her a gift that isn't money:  she asks me where I got it, thinks for a while until she finds some little thing wrong with it, then asks how much it cost and decides to return it.   So when your "mother" gives you anything, if you ever see her again (which you don't have to!  isn't that freeing?) just ask for the receipt and tell her it isn't your style exactly, or doesn't fit, but you can return it and find something else you like better.  If you can't do that, just give it away to a shelter and say that the homeless ladies just loved it and they told you to thank her!

A conniving
Plucky

[amethyst]

((((Spyralle)))) Nobody belongs to anyone else. You are not HERS.

Think about it this way. Our kids are gifts that God gives us temporarily. We can't keep them. We don't own them. Each gift is totally unique and irreplaceable, a treasure, but they don't belong to us. With the gift of our children comes a tremendous responsibility, which is to give them the tools to grow up and fill their unique potential. 

Let's say your kid is Mary. What a loving parent wants for Mary is to grow up to be true to who Mary really is....and for Mary to be the happiest and most fulfilled Mary that Mary can be, which will happen if we have given Mary the tools to make healthy choices. We don't want Mary to stay an infant forever. We don't want Mary to meet our needs. We don't want Mary to be other than who she is, which is a totally unique and irreplaceable individual. We celebrate Mary's becoming, which is a constant process, as we celebrate our own growth.

[d'smom]

-quote-
((((Spyralle)))) Nobody belongs to anyone else. You are not HERS.

Think about it this way. Our kids are gifts that God gives us temporarily........  Each gift is totally unique and irreplaceable, a treasure, but they don't belong to us. With the gift of our children comes a tremendous responsibility, which is to give them the tools to grow up and fill their unique potential. 

Let's say your kid is Mary. What a loving parent wants for Mary is to grow up to be true to who Mary really is....and for Mary to be the happiest and most fulfilled Mary that Mary can be, which will happen if we have given Mary the tools to make healthy choices. We don't want Mary to stay an infant forever. We don't want Mary to meet our needs. We don't want Mary to be other than who she is, which is a totally unique and irreplaceable individual. We celebrate Mary's becoming, which is a constant process, as we celebrate our own growth.
-quote-



this reminds me of a poem i always loved which i went and looked up........::  I dont think you mom would like this poem spyralle.




And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, 'Speak to us of Children.'

And he said:

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;

For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.


~ Kahlil Gibran

[Chicken]

What a beautiful and appropriate poem D'smom!  -Fantastic-

Spyralle,
I hope you are dealing with your mother in counselling, I think you are getting close to the root of your issues here.  Your horrible disgusting ugly exN isn't the real problem it seems...
Everytime you open that book which depicts your childhood, I want to throw up.  Your Mother is nightmare material.  I honestly get a chill when I read about her, I think she is twisted and evil and very very creepy.  I can completely understand your relationship with your exN now that I see what you had growing up.  You had to be blind in order to survive.  You haven't been able to shed that survival technique yet, which is what led your exN to hop on the bandwagon.

 Get those horrible disturbed psychotic people out of your life so you can be in a safe place to learn to open your eyes.  Personally, I would love to see you turn your back on your mother permenantly, you don't owe her ANYTHING.  She has such a hold over you.


((((((((((((((((Spyralle)))))))))))))))))))))

[vunil]

I love Marta's quote, and Spyralle I think you have been really diligent about seeing forks in the road and heading down the right path.  Yes, like all of us, you look back sometimes at the other paths and wonder if you made the right decision, but you keep going forward.  When it came time to really process the break-up, you found this list and a therapist.  When it became clear that the issue wasn't really him but your family dynamics (isn't that a meek term for what you went through!) you started looking at those.  Now you are really tackling all of that head-on, which is really difficult to do.  When it is difficult to do you don't back away from it but instead make yourself express your pain/worry/anger and deal with it.

Like pretty much everyone here, myself included, you sell yourself WAY short-- you have no idea how advanced and well-adjusted you are.  That is something to keep in mind as you make your way through this process.  Think of how far you have come and how clear it is that you are going to make it.  It is clear to me just watching you so far.  It's good for me to watch you because I'm learning from it, too.

What does your new shirt look like?  Will it shrink in the wash so you can wear it or should you get a smaller size?  The home-bound huge pregnant lady wants details! 

[Chicken]

Will it shrink in the wash so you can wear it or should you get a smaller size?
 

ha ha ha!  Maybe if you put it in a really hot wash...  or start eating those cream buns!

xx

[spyralle]

Hi all,

It has been a funny day today.  I was OK yesterday.  I went to bed early last night with Dean Koontz's new novel and read half of it.  i didn't sleep too good and woke up this morning feeling OK and then as the day went on my mood completely crashed and I went into another paniky sate of despair.....  But I'm here and feeling a bit better and very thankful that I have this place where i have room to vent and feel that people understand.

I suppose I could get in a very hot bath with the top on Vunil...and see if it shrinks to fit!!!!  I'ts  blue with little shoulder staps and a bit floaty.  I don't know where I will go in it but it's a start and even if I can't wear it it is something I bought for me and not my mother or a man.....  i love the Kahlil Gibran stuff D'smom.  My Spanish teacher used to do past life regressions and was convinced that she had been Kahlil Gibran in an earlier life, but that is a whole other story.

My daughter and I were talking earlier, and I was telling her about the aerobics incident with the old olive picker....  She told me that when she used to go over to Spain on her own, my mum and her used to do an aerobics video every day...  She says she knew it so well that she could do it without looking at the video but my mother would insist that she had to look at the video at all times.   It's all so perfectionistic, everything has to be ferfect....  No matter what I do, write, not write, etc..... it will be wrong and give her a reason to tell me how s**t I am.   She has a box in Spain of cards that I have sent her saying that I am sorry for the way I have behaved.  She quotes them as evidence.  In my last call with her she was going on about them and I told her that they had not been meant, just written cos it was easier.  I also said that I felt she had never liked me as a child....  She put the phone down on me....  That was quite a relief really but now I know that she is wanting contact...

I have started to talk about my mother in counselling Selkie and my counsellor is making all the links between then and now especially the blindness that I often experience towards my N's true nature.

God I just had another memory...  Sorry off I go again...  When my daughter was born (I was married to another abusive man then who used to say I was lucky to be married at all let alone to him!!!!)  my mother did not approve of the God parents we had chosen because they were not religious enough.  So she decided that her and my father should be God parents.  (She had also decided that my brother should be best man at the wedding even though he had never met my husband!)  Anyway, for some reason I went along with this and then one night before the christening, my mothers friends came round.  They were sitting drinking Martinis in their dangly earrings and my mother out of the blue asked this woman if her and her husband wanted to be God parents as well.  They were so un religious you would not believe....  And so that is how my daughter has one set of Godparents that she only ever saw once.....  My mum and dad off course tried to teach her some stuff like the words to my mums favourite hymns and my dad taught her that if she was naughty that was because the devil was making her do it.  I was forever trying to undo the belief that the devil was lurking around trying to make her do stuff.

My N husband then nearly tipped me over the edge.  I got pregnant when I was 21.  He was another student nurse and a big fat Sociopath to boot.  Cold with no emotions except joy when he was ridiculing me.  I was only a kid...  He rang my parents to tell them I was pregnant and my mother had the wedding organised within six weeks.  I think she kept the curtains closed for that long because of the shame.  She picked my dress ring and every other bloody thing and then the day before she said...  You know you can call it off if you want to...  Like I was going to.  The wedding was in the church where her school was (She was a Principal/Headmistress) I did not have one friend there and neither did he.... 

Of course he and my mother hated each other.  but I think he hated me more and I could weep now when I think of how naive I was.  I used to try and make myself look nice and he would say....Huh mutton dressed as lamb.... I had swapped my mother for another one.....  he would always be punching holes in the walls of our house, when he was in it and not sleeping with other nurses.  My myum bought me a coat (Here I go again with the coat thing) one winter.  It was cold and I actually think she was thinking of me...  He just wrenched it off me and wore it himself.  I know I must sound like I am drowning in self pity but I am not.  I have no feelings at all toward's that man...  I am just linking it all up I guess....

I left him eventually despite the fact he would beg me to return....you know the score there......  My mother was glad to have me back as I guess now she had two of us to control.

Isn't it funny when you look back.  Whatever has happened to me lately and no matter how awful I feel I feel different than I did then.  Now I believe that there is some hope...

Spyralle