worried about my therapist again

[amethyst]

Yesterday I had an intake session to start therapy for possible PTSD.  The therapist assigned to me is a lovely lady and very friendly.  She told me that, due to the type of abuse I am seeking therapy for (my X is a cop and likely has full blown NPD)  it was important that she *NOT* come across to me as an authority figure.  This surprised me indeed, but she explained (in my own words as my memory for the meaning is better than that for the exact words) that the last thing I needed was any further exposure to feeling I might be regarded as "less" than someone else.  The truth is, we ARE peers and she could come to me for my professional services as I have come to her for hers - and we have no reson to be on anything other than friendly and equal terms.  She further explained that she is very much a feminist and believes in equality, and that we are entering into a partnership of sorts where she will learn from me (she is working toward her Ph.D) and I will learn from her.  It does seem that we could indeed develop a friendship outside of the theraputic relationship, though out of respect, I would not push for a genuine close friendship during the therapy period... until then, perhaps a close acquaintainship and friendly interest?

Hi Ariel, I have to say that I think being a colleague in healing is a great approach. I would not have done very well with someone that was playing an Olympian Goddess either. Therapy is a partnership, but the therapist is the leader of that partnership. There will be times that she will have to be an authority, although that should be done in a friendly, caring and non-threatening way. The reason for this is that a good therapist has to confront their clients on things like negative thinking, destructive behavior, being stuck in repetitive patterns. To do otherwise is codependent on the part of therapist.

Frankly, I am sure every therapist learns much from each of their clients. I am not sure how wise this was of this lady to bring this up as a precursor to her PHD. I would feel uneasy knowing that I might be a project. What happens after she finishes the PHD? Will she be around for the long haul if you need her or will you be passed to somebody else?

JMHO, not wise to exchange professional services or be friends afterwards. There is a huge difference between friendship and friendly.

[amethyst]

October,
I appreciate your words of caution and I know you have had some very difficult experiences with therapists in the past. It is hard for me to put into words the exact feelings that I have for and about my T, and I know that if I said how I really feel, it would be met some with some strong criticism from members of this board.  This is my only long-term therapeutic experience.  I know I would not have stuck with it if I had not been totally comfortable from day one, felt safe and cared for.  My T and I have a great caring for each other in a brother-sister (probably more likely father-daughter in my case) kind of way.  He watched my life unravel before his eyes as he was trying to save my marriage, and he has made it his goal to put the pieces back together.  I have said before that if I could no longer afford his services, he would continue to see me for free.  Because of his religious background in addition to PhD in Psychology, he has helped me to bring God more actively into my life, which has also been very helpful in healing. 

This probably makes you uncomfortable, October, and I can understand that based on your past experiences.  I can assure you that there has never been a hint of impropriety in the 2 years I have been seeing him and I am at a very healthy place now and would be capable of recognizing that.  He has brought me to such an understanding of the affects of my FOO and how that affected my choice of life partners.  He is so happy for my happiness right now.

I could go on and on, but essentially, I am just very grateful to this man for giving me my life back.  I know I could not have done it without his guidance and would have ended up repeating the same mistakes I have made in the past.  Maybe we can't ever truly be friends.  That concept makes me sad, but I guess it remains to be seen.  I have never felt an imbalance in our power structure even though, as you say, he knows much more about me than I know about him.  He is a consumate professional, so I will take my lead from him as to how our relationship will continue at the conclusion of therapy, if at all.

Brigid 

Hi Brigid, That feeling of being cared about the way a loving parent (Dad) would care about a daughter is positive transference. It is a good thing when we feel safe enough to be nurtured in the therapeutic relationship. It's possible to have feelings of deep love and appreciation for a terrific therapist. I had three wonderful therapists that I think about often and have feelings of appreciation for...they helped me out of a dark and desperate place.

It's more common to see someone continue therapy without funds in private or religiously based work than in a group practice or an agency. It's very important though that the client does not develop a sense of personal obligation to the therapist because of that.

I would say that the man you are seeing is absolutely a professional with great boundaries. Should you go to his church, he would be your priest, too...which is also an authority figure.

[amethyst]

    these are some things that are really disturbing to me--- in therapy. 
List of weird boundary invasions in my therapy
1. she lets me attend a course she teaches for free
2. she talks about her relationship with her husband with me.
3. We exchange little gifts.
4. She has said that she loves me.
5. THerapy takes place in her house, with her bed prominently visible.
5. She has commented on my appearance, and I know that she she has said she thinks I am pretty and has also said that my recent  weight loss"looks good" . This makes me feel uncomfortable especially because I know that she does not think that she is pretty.
6. I remember that early on she warned me not to do things the way that other people do them because I was trying to find myself-- that was her response when i felt inspired by another woman burning insence while she cleaned and said that I was going to do that--- I felt that this was discouraging. She later went on to tell me all about how SHE does things, including some of the ways that she "got " her relationship with her husband, when I did not even ask. 
7.   Vunil, I talked to her yeterday. I told her that it was not good for me when she self discloses or talk about her other clients during my session. She said okay she would not do that anymore. I felt a sense of relief like finally my therapy would be just about me, and not her and me with her issues mixed in with mine til I felt like they were blurred and nuts . I felt a lot more separate, but wondered what we would talk about.  tThen she went against her word a few minutes later to tell me about her other client who  would always ask her questions about herself( my therapist) , and that she did not tell that other client about herself because she could tell that that other client was trying to make her into a mother that way. Previously in our session  I had told her that my inner children would miss hearing about her, and her response was that they could always ask her questions.  She has no children of her own. Later I realised that she had done the exact thing I had told her was unhealthy for me about 5 minutes later or so. I talked to her again and was really angry. She admitted that she had "f---ed up" . She said that that was so much a part of her "style" that she did not know if she would be able to stop it right away but said that she would not be hurt if I kept calling her on it because she knows who she is and has a good sense of self and is not trying to turn me into her. hmmm.
8. She wanted to treat my twin sister.
I do not know if this is as horrible as it seems to me which it seems that I have ben serving a big giant need of hers for five long years.
Thank you for listening the top half of my post is deleted --- it was too icky. I talked to her about it and that was really confusing Vunil. That is what happened on number 7.
9. She encouraged me to do my rage work by pounding on a pillow, on her bed.
10. She discouraged me from giving gifts to others, or being giving in general. That was called codependance. She encouraged me to make drawings for her.  I was not supposed to do things for anyone else because that was codependant. I have come to be very withholding, under the impression that that was healthier. but it does not feel healthier, but am going to change that now.  She is the only person who I have made or bought a gift for in quite a long time and that makes me feel really icky. I used to make gifts for people a lot and I really miss that.
This is an edited post, I apologize for my other long and confusing posts. Thank you for all the encouragement and information and stuff.  I feel like it helps me with this icky problem a lot.
After I confronted her about doing that thing where she said that she would no longer make MY therapy about her or her other clients, and then five minutes later she was back to that, she seemed to compensate for whatever rift in the relationship by starting to say "we"when she means either me, or her or everyone I don't know. She used to do that all the time and now I guess she is picking it up again in order to blur the lines between us again. I know in my heart that I amnot lying.I would really appreciate anything you guys may think of theset things Love Bloopsy rose. P.S> I feel that she was trying to lure my sister into therapy with her so that she could abuse her too. One time she asked in her wierd dreamy voice that I now am starting to feel is really creepy "did your mom dress you alike when you were children? By the way, that was one of the only questions she asked me about my twin sister during the course of the five year therapy whatever that we had. I think that is a creepy question to choose to ask out of all the questions in the world.

(((Bloopsy))) My hinky meter is off the charts here.

One thing that raised my hackles is the fact you saw somebody doing a very self-nurturing thing by burning incense during housework. When you said you wanted to try it, which seems perfectly healthy to me, she told you not to. That seems awfully N to me. The fact is that it is healthy to notice what other people do to meet their needs and try to incorporate new ideas and practices into our daily lives.

The fact the bed is visible is way out of bounds. The bed is the most intimate piece of furniture someone owns.

Talking about herself or other clients is not ok, other than to establish commonality. For instance, if I tell my T something and ask her if I am wierd for whatever I have told her, it is reassuring to know that other people have felt or thought that too...and also what the mechanism might be if it is something that is serving to keep me stuck. 

I am a recovering alcoholic. Two of my therapists, who both had backgrounds in Chemical Dependency and co-dependency, were also recovering alcoholics. They didn't tell me much about themselves, but it came up before I even signed up with them....and it was helpful to me to know that they knew where I was coming from. In fact, the first woman I saw, Anne, had a very similar drinking history to mine; she was a late onset drinker and drank for six years...which is unusual. My intake interview was with someone else who kept trying to tell me that I was an alcoholic in my teens....actually, I was a very light social drinker who started drinking like a fish at age 34. The intake person couldn't understand that and she just irritated the hell out of me because she was basing her judgement on the typical pattern of alcoholism, including her own. Anne, who had started drinking in her fifties, could understand that I started drinking heavily at age 34, hated to get drunk, and stopped at age 40...because her experience was similar. She explained to me that I carried the alcoholic gene but that it had been triggered later than most people....and she could relate.

Because of Anne's particular background, she could quickly establish that I had good sobriety, that I was not in denial about my drinking and that we could move on to my codependency and PTSD issues. If I had been seeing the intake person, we would have had a blowup because she was trying to put my square peg of atypical drinking in the round hole of typical early onset alcoholism. We would have wasted a boatload of time arguing about denial and the quality of my sobriety, which was not the issue. The issue was that I was a raving co-dependent and needed a ton of help to heal and have good recovery.

That thing about your twin is bizarre....I really question her motivation in asking the question the way she did. Had she said that sometimes twins have identity issues because of being treated as a package instead of individuals, it would have been much healthier. It sounded instead if she was having some kind of fantasy.

[October]

October,
I appreciate your words of caution and I know you have had some very difficult experiences with therapists in the past. It is hard for me to put into words the exact feelings that I have for and about my T, and I know that if I said how I really feel, it would be met some with some strong criticism from members of this board.  This is my only long-term therapeutic experience.  I know I would not have stuck with it if I had not been totally comfortable from day one, felt safe and cared for.  My T and I have a great caring for each other in a brother-sister (probably more likely father-daughter in my case) kind of way. 

I appreciate that your situation is not the same as mine.

I may not be able to comment further, or even read your posts, because this therapist I had was my Vicar at the time, in the Anglican Church, which is our version of Episcopalian.  Maybe with vicars they think it is ok to blur the lines. 

I thought so too, then, but I would not think so any more, after the damage that Michael did to me.  He used our sessions more and more to talk about himself and his family problems.  In the end, he spread lies about me to anyone who would listen.  As an example, he read selected parts of a letter I sent him to a mutual friend, to prove that I was in love with him.  He read out 'I love you, Michael'.  He did not read the next line, which said; 'I would never do anything to hurt you, or (wife's name) or your girls.  Why would I want to do that?'

Fortunately for me, I had already given a copy of the full letter to this friend, as a kind of safety net.  Just as well, in the event.  So he was able to help me from a complete breakdown, but I came very close.  And Michael just walked away.

All I can say is that I would have said the same things during the therapy as you are saying.  I was friends with Michael, and his wife and children.  I took his daughters to the seaside with mine.  When it was their wedding anniversary, I made a cake for the party in our Church hall, and then another one for his induction to his new church.  I thought this was friendship, but I was mistaken.  It was always about power, and he had it all.

Sorry, I had better not go too far into reliving this one.  I am sure your minister is different.

I do have a friend who is a minister, and who is a very good friend to me (mostly, although he has his thoughtless moments too!!), so it can be done.  But I could never again have a minister as a therapist of any kind. 

I wish you well on your journey, though, and I am happy for you.  And rather envious.  I cannot now attend church because of agoraphobia, in part brought on by my experiences over the years with one abusive therapist after another.  Inter alia.

Peace be with you.

[Bloopsy]

amethyst,   I am planning to change my phone number. Thank you so much for the hug I sure need it . (((amethyst)))
she knows my adress. I don't want her icky stuff anymore. I feel so sorry for her.  Thank you for your note. I can relate to being an alchoholic but not  having a typical drinking story and how being able to relate to someone around that is really important.  "raving codependant" what a way to put it1!!!!!I've never heard that one before!!!

[amethyst]

amethyst,   I am planning to change my phone number. Thank you so much for the hug I sure need it . (((amethyst)))
she knows my adress. I don't want her icky stuff anymore. I feel so sorry for her.  Thank you for your note. I can relate to being an alchoholic but not  having a typical drinking story and how being able to relate to someone around that is really important.  "raving codependant" what a way to put it1!!!!!I've never heard that one before!!!

(((Bloopsy)))

 If you tell her that you don't want to see her anymore and are looking for another therapist, do you think she will let you go without calling? Are you going to tell her and put closure to it...or are you going to disappear?  Do you think that she will show up at your house?  I know it takes a great deal of courage to do it, but to avoid misunderstandings, it might be better to tell her.

I have fired therapists before and didn't change my phone number. If she cannot let you go, which would be awfully sick, then you may need to. At this point, I would do as little as possible to inconvenience myself...only if necessary.

Yeah, I was a raving codependent...lol. I lived through and for other people and had no idea how to get my needs met in a healthy way. It was an awful way to live, confusing, painful, chaotic...bad boundaries. It's good to be mostly on the other side of that. I still get into some codependent pickles now and then, but I find that I can get out of them much more quickly.

[Marta]

October,

I just can't find the right words to express how I feel about your story or all that you have had to suffer. He ought to have his license revoked.

Hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs,

Marta

[Bloopsy]

Dear October,
I am so sorry about your horrible experiences. You are such a sweet person and  you inspire me with your compassion.  I send you a nice warm cloud of happy comforting marshmallow comfort.
from bloosy r

"I cannot now attend church because of agoraphobia, in part brought on by my experiences over the years with one abusive therapist after another.  Inter alia. "
 

((((( :)October ))))))) surrounded by little smiles.

[mum]

Bloopsy, I just caught up with this thread and I have to say you sound wonderful! Not your situation (ickky) but YOU.
You sound powerful and centered.
This thing with your therapist sounds wrong to lots of us, but YOUR opinion is the one that matters. You sought support here for a concern and you know that your opinion is what matters most, not what this person may have done for you in the past, or what anyone else might say about this. You know to trust yourself....that is huge.
You recognize that you have boundaries and are uncomfortable (gee whiz, I sure would be, too) and that is ENOUGH. That is all you need to dump this therapist completely, and (if you want to) even file a grievance of some kind.  This is your life, no one else's and you are in charge.  Bless you, Bloopsy....you are an awesome woman.

[Bloopsy]

Thank you mum. I admit that I have not felt this centered ever at all. It sort of feels that maybe being restored to life --- maybe I had never been here forever, and with a right to be here too.


P.S. You are awesome too hee hee

[Bloopsy]

Hi. I am starting to feel really weird and afraid. I feel like I am starting to blame myself. I really feel like maybe my therapist tried to turn me into her or something. ------last night I called her and felt like I was haivng this thing where I was the one who had abused her by being so dependant on her--- and felt that she had amde me into a person or something. I was wondering if you guys know of if there is any sort of expert on this thing.  if she really was not the perfect and wonderful, or at least kind and caring, therapist that I thought she was, she  did me a lot of harm and  I feel like she is very dangerous and  I am even getting scared that her name and the name of a man that she refered me to for treatment, also begin with the letter D as in Devil. Sometimes in my program, when people talk about being abused by their therapists, or they read out a line in the preamble "some of us are still being abused", Yesterday I called her and told her that I missed her, and she told me something like "You are a poster girl for recovery". I just felt like I didn't believe her at all. Yesterday, I called a number that I had re

[longtire]

Hi Bloopsy, I have to agree about you sounding stronger!

I would like to remind you that YOU are the one who has healed yourself.  A good therapist or counselor can be a tremendous support and wonderful guide, but you are the only one who can do the work and make the changes to grow.

Also, your therapist may have been what you needed (or not!) during the previous period of your recovery.  Maybe she is not what you need right now in order to take your next step.  Maybe she is.  You are the only one who can decide.  Heck, maybe deciding whether to leave or find someone else or not IS your next step right now.

My first T helped me *tremendously* with many things.  Getting out of depression.  Terrible fear of people and speking (now you can't get me to shut up!)  Unfortunately, he seemed to be in denial or to have some sort of hangup about my relationship with my wife.  He wasn't able to help me with that before, and he wasn't able to help recently either.  Maybe that is because of my issues, maybe that is because of his issues.  When that was the main issue for me earlier this year, he just wasn't able to help.  From that  I learned that I can (and did) choose another therapist, without any catastrophic problems.  It took some effort and time to find someone who I felt comfortable with, but having a T to talk to who is not trying to prove that I'm wrong about what has been going on makes it so much easier to talk about what is going on in my life and how I can change to handle things better.

Find someone who is best for what you need right now.  Maybe that is the person you are already seeing.  I have to agree with other here who get a spooky feeling about your current T.  Still, you have all the power and get to make all your own decisions.

[October]

Bloopsy, I just caught up with this thread and I have to say you sound wonderful! Not your situation (ickky) but YOU.
You sound powerful and centered.

  Bless you, Bloopsy....you are an awesome woman.

That is absolutely true.  We are seeing a new side of you, Bloopsy, and it is wonderful!!!!!

xxxx

[Awen]

Bloopsy,

I apologize, one of my problems is that my attention span has gone out the window, so my post yesterday did not end up addressing what I had intended, and what I said was rather invalidating as I got confused and quit before I got finished with my initial thoughts.   .   What I had thought I was going to tell you is that I am delighted to be working with a friendly T that I do feel I could go on to be friends with in the future - HOWEVER - in your case things sound really out of whack and inappropriate!   So I concur with the others on this board that think you have been in a T relationship with someone that does not respect theraputic boundaries.  So good to read of your strength in being able to speak to your T on those issues! 

[Awen]

Amethyst,

Thanks for your concern about my T.  There is nothing inappropriate: my therapy is through a university research clinic, so I came in knowing 1) it will be a short-term therapy (specific to the PTSD)  2) after my T finishes her phD she returns to her native country so  I will not be able to continue with my T for an indefinate period anyway, and 3) others will be learning form our sessions as well.    Much better to know such things up front, I have in the past started therapy only to recieve notice after a short time that the entire practise was being moved to a far off town it would have been difficult for me to get to!