Author Topic: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter  (Read 2452 times)

amethyst

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Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« on: September 28, 2005, 01:59:47 PM »
I have shared quite a bit of my story in former posts and today I just found out that my daughter, who has been angrier than all get out for the last month, received a post card from my ex about a month ago. He was travelling with his wife (her step-mom) in Europe and sent my daughter a picture of a donkey. On the card, he said that that the my daughter reminded him of the donkey. He also went on to say that he was having a great time and decided that he is never going to go back to work again.

Just to give you some quick background, my ex sexually abused my daughter from about age 3. as far as I can determine, up until about age 14. I was fully aware that she was being abused and did everything I could to stop it, to no avail.  She protected him and absolutely refused to deal with it...taking all her anger and rage out at me. I left the marriage before my daughter was 2. Despite our best efforts, all kinds of therapy, reporting the abuse constantly, following all the recommendations of our county childrens services, going to court, my current husband (DH) and I were unable to get any meaningful help until she was 14, at which time my daughter admitted what was going on. By that time, she was so far gone that we had to place her in residential treatment for about a year and a half. I had to sue our county children's services to accomplish this. Needless to say, our life has been a nightmare for years. My daughter is still scarred and probably has mild BPD. Up until about 2 months ago, she seemed to be making progress, but for the last month, she has reverted into some very angry, abusive behaviours.

She lost her job about a month and a half ago and now works 2 part-time low wage jobs, which I had to threaten her with eviction to even interview for. She has no health insurance. She is behind on her rent to us and on her bills. When my daughter was about 8, my ex remarried a woman who is well to do. Initially they promised my daughter the moon, but of course never delivered on any of the promises. They initially promised that they would pay for college and get her a new car. Of course, now they do not want to help her with anything. When my daughter was in her last year of high school, they even went so far as to keep bugging her about interviewing for colleges, but made it known, in the most passive-aggressive way, that help to pay for college would not be forthcoming. Of course, my daughter does not have the maturity to succeed at college at this point, so it was just a cruel game.

About six months ago, her step-mother gave her a car which was far from new, but seemed to run ok. My ex paid for 6 months of car insurance. According to the ex and step-mom, the car had been thoroughly checked over. That turned out not to true....it may have been checked, but basically what they gave her was a junker that has everything wrong with it. It has finally broken down and the cost to repair it is beyond my daughter's means. It's just more cruelty.

For the past three weeks, I have been driving her to work at her two different jobs and picking her up. We have one car so I have also been driving my husband back and forth to work. My husband goes to work at 8 and gets off at 4PM. My daughter works from 4 to 10 PM at one job and 11-6 AM at the other job, so this is a logistical snafu and also interferes with my sleep. I also have a disability and all this driving is very hard on me. In addition, my husband and I are very close to the federal poverty level and if our car breaks down, we are screwed.  In the meantime, my daughter was screaming at me and being totally nasty. I finally realized that she sounds just like my ex....and that she has really identified with the abuser in a very frightening way. 

I finally sat her down a few days ago and told her that I was not going to tolerate her abusive behaviours anymore. I told her that I had put up with her father's abusive behaviour and speech for years and that she sounded just like him. I went so far as to say that I feared that she has turned out like him because she has identified with and protected him. I told her that unless the abusive behavior stopped that I was going to throw her out and that I guessed she would either have to hit the streets or go live with her father. I told her that I realized that her father had sexually abused her in the past, that he was a child molester, and that she probably wouldn't want to stay with him and his wife, but that I was not concerned that he would be interested in her as an adult. I have used some tough talk in the past to deal with her, and have had to make many tough love decisions along the way, but this is the first time I have ever told her that I feared she was becoming like her father. She was shocked. She neither cried nor apologized, but her behaviour changed immediately. However, like her father, the behaviour change is probably temporary.

Even though I just found out about the postcard and the insult about the donkey, as sad and as pained as I feel for my daughter, I don't believe that her problems with her father give her any excuse to abuse me.

Right now I feel very trapped. As she did when she was a child, my daughter seems to have fallen through the cracks. Without the stable home that we provide, I cannot imagine what her life would be like. The sad thing is that it is getting harder and harder to provide that home, not only because we are struggling financially, but because I am tired of living with an abuser. 

October

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2005, 02:17:31 PM »
What a nightmare!  I am so sorry, Amethyst.  You really don't deserve to have a situation like this to deal with, and I really feel for you.

I am not sure how old your daughter is, but her age would be important in determining what to do next.  If she is under 18 I think I would keep on trying to help her, with a few extra very clear boundaries in place.  On the other hand, if she is over 18, I think she deserves to go it alone, and I would do my best to help her find an alternative place to live, and leave her to make her own way to and from work.

But I can understand that this would be very difficult for you to do.   :(

amethyst

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 02:30:46 PM »
She is twenty but only has the maturity of a 14 year old at the most. Sometimes it is less than that.

October

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 02:35:31 PM »
In that case I think I would set a deadline of her 21st for some more considerate behaviour, and tell her that without it, she is on her own after that.  That is more than fair; she is not a child any more.

Your own health is only going to suffer more if you allow her behaviour to continue to hurt you.   :(


Sela

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 03:10:28 PM »
Hi Amethyst:

It sounds like your daughter is punishing you with her anger.  For 11 years she was abused in the most horrific manner and it is likely she has tons of anger (etc) because of that.  I'm sure you have suffered along with her and are still suffering, as she is.  You have both been hurt badly.

6 years ago she received "meaningful help".  Is she still getting help?  Does she belong to any support groups or have a therapist/counsellor/anyone to talk to who is knowledgable about this type of abuse?  Does she express any feelings, other than anger, to you?  Did you talk to her about the post card? (I wonder if there is some hidden meaning there???  :twisted:)

Do you think she learned to behave the way she is doing from her father?  If so, maybe she can learn alternatives?  Maybe you could tell her you would like to help her do that?

Sorry to ask so many questions.  You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfrortable.  It's so difficult to try to balance everything and you are certainly trying to do that but it can't be very easy when you feel abused by your own child.  I'm so sorry you have so much to deal with.  I admire your strength and determination.  Please take care of you too.

((((((((((((Amethyst)))))))))))))

Sela

amethyst

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 03:25:39 PM »
Thanks Sela. She is totally resistant to any help. As far as she is concerned, she does not have a problem. I took her to counseling through age 17, at which time the counselor said it really wasn't doing anything because my daughter just couldn't get honest. She always made it seem like everything was just peachy when she saw the therapists....and any problems were always someone else's fault.

Yeah, I think the card from her dad was evil. He is too. When my daughter starts to be abusive, she is just like her father. She saw him abuse me and everyone else for years.

Thanks October, I think that may be a plan. We are at an impasse right now and we can't go on like this forever. 

« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 03:28:10 PM by amethyst »

miss piggy

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 03:47:10 PM »
(((Amethyst)))

I am so sorry to hear about this.  It's just so hard.  In addition to the comments above, I was wondering if there are any counselors in your area that specialize in BPD.  I am familiar with some people with BPD behavior unfortunately (they are human, too, but just so so contrarian and difficult to be real with).  Even if your d won't admit her own responsibility for her behavior, can she recognize that she is damaged by the abuse and get on  with taking care of herself? 

I assume that since you know the BPD term, you have been to the websites, read all the books.  This is just so extremely challenging.  But I'll hold out hope for you, A!  It's hard to stay calm and detached.  They just have to poop in our yard and we're the ones to clean it up.  I get tired of shoveling sometimes.  :?

Set your limits and keep them.  Hugs, MP

Sallying Forth

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2005, 07:06:12 PM »
(((((((((((Amethyst))))))))))))

Wow! Your story is very similar to mine except I'm the step-mom and my h's ex's h is the abuser. I'm still dealing with the aftermath of my step-son's abuse but thankfully from a distance. The son is abusive towards his own father but almost loving and accepting towards his mother and step-father. His mother is N and married a N-abuser. Very strange. And the Nmother is manipulative, promising all kinds of monetary help and never delivering.


Sounds like you need some boundaries and she needs to leave home pronto.


Sorry you are going through all this. Hugs, SF
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I'm Sallying Forth on a new adventure! :D :D :D

Marta

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2005, 01:31:52 AM »
Amethyst,

I am so sorry, and hugs to you. You are trapped in a very difficult situation. This driving back and forth to work sounds like a nightmare. I’d put a stop to that. How about public transport?

I really feel for your daughter. To be sexually abused by your own biological father from the age of three! I don’t know how does one get over a trauma like this one.

As for her being closer to the abusive father, it’s like this. When you enter a room with loud music, that is all you hear, no matter how irritating it is. Gentle whisperings of love are drowned out. That is what her dad did to her; he forcefully staked his claims on her. While growing up, I was Nmom’s precious baby (also primary victim of her sadistic instincts and cruel games) and distant from dad. The situation changed when I got my own wings and my own perspective on life, at about twenty three or so.

Quote
Amethyst:
I guessed she would either have to hit the streets or go live with her father.

I know you are angry, I would be too, but I think saying something like this could be really hurtful and destroy your chances of ever improving your relationship with her. She may not admit to the gravity of what he did to her but I bet she feels it in her heart; if I were you, I’d hold on to the perspective that he did her irreparable harm and should be out of her life, no matter how tough the going gets. Can her getting her own place be an option on the plate?

Do you really think that she is like her dad? It’s true that she can be nasty and all kinds of mean things, but is she without a soul? He sounds pretty sadistic; where as she seems to be using anger as a weapon; you haven’t told us so far that she is sadistic or conniving.

I would not put up with abusive behavior; I can’t imagine how I’d draw boundaries in a situation like this either, without physically distancing myself from her. I can imagine how painful all this must be for you.

I guess it is ultimately about where you are at in your relationship with your daughter -- whether you are giving up on her, or are still in the process of trying to help her and leave a door open.

In either case, I think it is unhealthy for you both and your relationship to continue living in the same house in a situation where you have an adversarial relationship with each other. I would give her a few months notice  and do all I could to help her to move out. I would also be very, very careful not use words that are damaging to whatever precious little may be left of her self-esteem, even though she is abusive to you and you deserve all the sympathy in the world for having to deal with a situation like this on top of everything else.

Marta
« Last Edit: September 29, 2005, 01:53:01 AM by Marta »

Sela

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2005, 10:05:02 AM »
Hi Amethyst:

The therapist's comments about your daughter not being able to "get honest" suggests a couple of things:

1.  Your daughter was uncomfortable with the therapist....didn't trust the therapist enough to feel safe enough to reveal her deepest stuff......

or

2.  Your daughter may not be ready to face/deal/emerge from her pain...and she may just want to get on with her life, for now.

The therapist doesn't sound very empathetic or insightful, if you ask me.  Your daughter sustained so many years of abuse....I imagine it would take a long time... for her to trust anyone enough...never mind a therapist.....to expose her vunerablilties to anyone.  I bet she is in protection mode....trying to protect what is left of her self.  The therapist seems to have totally missed these possibilities and simply made judgements about your daughter.  My guess is this therapist was not the right one for your daughter and may have done her harm??

Anyway......those are my thoughts.  Maybe I'm waaaaaay off?  If there is a way you can possibly find to enhance your communication with your daughter, I think it will help both of you.  I'm not sure "tough love" is the best approach with her.  Limits/boundaries....yes.  With kindness and always the message my wise friend taught me years ago:

"I love you too much to allow you to behave like this without consequences."

Your daughter has witnessed abuse and sustained immense abuse.  Her anger is justified (but I bet there are a whole wack of feelings entangled with that anger).

However, it's totally unfair that she is using you as a recepticle.  I would probably try my very hardest to get this across to her and to let her know that I understand and love her but I will not tolerate her abuse, if that's how I felt.  I agree that she needs to live elsewhere if she is not able to deal with her feelings in a more appropriate way, but that will not solve her difficulties (it will help you to feel safe and comfortable in your own home, which you have a right to feel).  My bet is she needs to feel safe too and she might actually feel safe letting some of it out with you.  Does that make sense?

I think I might insist that if she is to continue living in the home, that she explore ways of dealing with her feelings.  I know she's 20 but she's still a kid.  The abuse she has sustained has probably not helped her to mature naturally and normally.

It must be very frustrating for you dealing with it all.  ((((((((Amethyst)))))))  Hang in there.

Sela

Gail

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Re: Sadness, anger at abusive ex N, APD and with daughter
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2005, 10:32:04 AM »
I have a daughter the same age as yours who also is mentally ill and who has been extremely abusive to me in the past.  When Nh and I divorced, she went with him and all of the younger children live with me.  My fear is that someday xh will have enough and I'll have to make the hard decision about whether or not I could take her. 

She hasn't held a job for more than a few weeks and is an N and also possibly bi-polar and/or BPD.  A very, very hard situation.  Unlike your daughter, she didn't suffer any particular trauma that I know about, but showed signs of a neurologically based illness as a very young child.  Xh would never admit how ill she was, and reinforced her abusive behavior towards me.  It was a nightmare for years that only let up when they both moved out.

I've learned that I cannot fix her.  I finally took an absolutely zero tolerance to any abusive behavior.  I hang up on her if she starts in on me over the phone, I tell her to leave if she's in my home and starts.  No criticism is allowed, not even a hint of it, because it just escalates.  I also don't want the other children to see me take it from her anymore.  That just breeds disrespect and confusion.  It's been hard, and I still sometimes give in when I shouldn't when she asks me for money, but at least I'm not living with daily abuse and the other children also have some relief. 

One of the hardest things about this was xH has continually accused me of being the bad guy in the situation--that I lack compassion, that I was abusive towards her.   I have had to question myself over and over.  Fortunately, her psychiatrist was appalled at my xH's take on the situation and actually congratulated me when I filed for divorce.   That helped me see that I wasn't the one who was crazy even though I often felt like it!

I don't know what you should do in your situation.  I just know that if something isn't working, continuing on with the same situation isn't likely to get any better.

Gail