N-H sent letter need advice if 12 yr old D should read.

[Stormchild]

OR, you might want to photocopy the letters and have the copies notarized, and hand them all over to your lawyer. Nothing quite like using an N's own words and actions to prove they're an N. Hard for him to argue against what he himself wrote.

[onlyrenting]

Storm, Mia,Marta Thank you all for spending time to help me with this crazy stuff!

BIL, called this AM,  the TX fair is here and we are all going after chruch on SUN.

He asked if I heard form my EX, I told him about the letter and the attack on him.

He was upset that the impact from my D to repeat this story could give him reason not to welcome her in his home. I explained she did not know about the letter and I have faxed the court the letter in hopes to make them aware.

I must now be prepared to make a plan for D to only mention this type of story to her uncle or myself.
I must give her an avenue to feel safe and how her father is being abusive to her by telling her such things.
knowing she may feel she would betray her father I don't know how it will go.
I tried to tell BILthat my ex's plan is to keep us away from him using D to execute the destruction of the relationship.

Marta, This is such a fine line I walk, finding the cracks and sealing them up will be a great chanlenge for me.
I will consult as much as possible and will have to trust D, will be able to know when she see's these cracks and some how seal them up in a loving way.

That way, he'd create a crack in your relationship with D and make every effort to pass his filth through that crack, like sewer stench

My ex was abused by his extreamly alcoholic M. In this letter he mentions how he was 12 like her now and how he took care of the M when she was unable to take care of herself. His dad traveld and left my ex to fend for himself. Now that he claims to needs 3 more surguries, (I think his elbows and hands for carpal tunne)l
he will need help and wished she was there with him to help him out. He expects her to show him what he calls unconditional love and this is the only type of love he has for her.

Marta, I did review the web site, I pray the courts will have open eyes and ears to my sitiuation and protect us from my ex's rath.
Reading about how the sparation is more dangerous and leaving the child in the hands of the NCP to use for revenge upon the spouse. With N if the spouse has another boyfried, they will feel the child is theirs and make life the the boyfriend difficult.
My ex in this letter tells D to help me find another BF ASAP so I will leave BIL and family alone.
Now I fear the future will have a no-win as long as he thinks I have any type of support system.
He is mad about BIL helping us, this in his mind means HIS child is being kept from him.
BIL has offered to fly him here for TG but EX ignores the offer. Instead plays victim.

We are going to the Fair, on Sunday and will disscuss with BIL about how to deal with ex.
BIL, is director for the anger managment program (deals with drug program), I have seen the information provided on classes offered. He may be able  to give some good direction how to nip this before too much damage is done.



Storm: I have photocopies of some of the letters and e-mails and web-stie chats all in the hand of the court now. Tues will be telling if his own words are damaging enough to sway the mediator in my direction for custody.

Mia,

N's will love to fool the court, find a way to do their damage no matter what. The judge already is mad at him for telling a lie in court. I was on the phone for the hearing and could hear the judge when my ex denied ever receiving my certified court papers to respond for OSC. I told the judge if he looked he would find the proff from the P.O. the letter was ignored.  My ex has already told me he will tell what ever lies just to make me prove he lied. I found a court rule and attached to my papers, if spouse makes up lies he would have to pay for cost from the other party to prove the lie. Don't know if they will follow through but I added anyway.

Thanks to all of you for your time   OR









 



 

[Stormchild]

My ex was abused by his extreamly alcoholic M. In this letter he mentions how he was 12 like her now and how he took care of the M when she was unable to take care of herself. His dad traveld and left my ex to fend for himself. Now that he claims to needs 3 more surguries, (I think his elbows and hands for carpal tunne)l
he will need help and wished she was there with him to help him out. He expects her to show him what he calls unconditional love and this is the only type of love he has for her.

This piece of information is key, OR. Abusers always, always, always telegraph their punches... they use that to justify their abusiveness [well, I told you I was a snake when you picked me up, as the old joke goes].

Your X is telling your daughter that he intends to abuse her in the exact same way that his mother abused him. He apparently feels that he inherited the right to enslave his own 12-year-old, since that's what his mother did to him.

This is one the court really ought to see, and so ought your daughter's T, if you can manage both... because this really is it, this is his intentions towards her, in a nutshell.

God bless you OR. God keep you strong and your daughter safe. Thank God you got away.

[onlyrenting]

Storm:

Abusers always, always, always telegraph their punches... they use that to justify their abusiveness [well, I told you I was a snake when you picked me up, as the old joke goes].

I could use more understanding on this Storm, sounds scary to me. YUK!!!

Update on the screening of the letters. We had a heated discussion when I opened todays letter from him.
D got mad at me, upset and said how she was going to tell her dad.

Today we had to run around doing shopping , I had mentioned speaking with her uncle, we were expecting her dad to be writing her and what ever she read if it sounding like something that would be hurtful she was NOT to ever tell her cousins. Her dad is mad at the world and just be prepared for a letter from him.
Made it sound like he had sent her uncle a mean e-mail and we knew to expect something mean about BIL to her.

I get todays letter and she is mad at me I tell her because of the recent news it will be done to make sure she is protected and I love her no matter what. if she feels living with her dad is what she wants I will love her still.

We went on upset, Im telling her before she makes a life changing decision she should read about the mental Illness her dad has. I told her to try and undersand this is abuse to make her his tool to hurt others.
I explained I don't want her to feel bad about her dad, this is why I don't share too much about him being N.
How now she needs to understand the danger he would be willing to put her in and to undersand what I know. Im looking out to keep her safe and would not do this just to be unfair.

Todays letter was weird, something about her uncle sending him a letter using my D's name?
I can't imagine what he is talking about but claims he  is bringint this letter  to court.
The letter was short and no mention about the other letter, Im sure he assumes she got it.   

So now she knows from now on Im screening his letters...........I feel better that's in the open.
She offered to let me see the e-mails she sent him but then said no.
She is being more sweet and not showing anger towards me.
I told her I do understand why she would be upset and I was sorry for in invasion of her privacy.


It's the fair on Sunday, hoping she will assure her uncle not to ever repeat the mean things her dad says about him to his kids...............

I feel better ..........OR

[longtire]

OR,
I remember my daughter at 12. Judgement and most of the brain go out the window for a year or two.  Keep telling her that you love her and are doing this to protect her since she is the most important thing in your life and are not doing it to ruin her life (universal fear of 12 year old girls?).  Let her know that you want her to have fun and freedom but that she is not fully ready to take care of herself yet and that is still your job for a while longer.  Let her know that it is your primary job to take care of her and when she is ready to take care of herself and do a good job of it, you will be happy to let her do that.  Keep telling her these things and they will (slowly) sink in.  My daughter has since told me that she is glad we did the checking up on her and keeping her safe at that age.  She can't believe how naive and clueless she was then, now that she has matured so much (almost 17 now).

[mum]

My ex was abused by his extreamly alcoholic M. In this letter he mentions how he was 12 like her now and how he took care of the M when she was unable to take care of herself. His dad traveld and left my ex to fend for himself. Now that he claims to needs 3 more surguries, (I think his elbows and hands for carpal tunne)l
he will need help and wished she was there with him to help him out. He expects her to show him what he calls unconditional love and this is the only type of love he has for her.

This piece of information is key, OR. Abusers always, always, always telegraph their punches... they use that to justify their abusiveness [well, I told you I was a snake when you picked me up, as the old joke goes].

Your X is telling your daughter that he intends to abuse her in the exact same way that his mother abused him. He apparently feels that he inherited the right to enslave his own 12-year-old, since that's what his mother did to him.

This is one the court really ought to see, and so ought your daughter's T, if you can manage both... because this really is it, this is his intentions towards her, in a nutshell

OR: I highlighted Stormy's entire post because she is 100% dead on with this one.  This letter you mention is what the court needs to see...it's the scariest of all. 
Your daughter got upset because she has to do that at this age....she settled down because deep down, she knows you are looking out for her. Don't for a second worry about her being "mad" at you. Better a temporarily angry teenager than a severely damaged adult. You are an awesome mom. Do not doubt yourself.
Your ex is NOT a good father.  And he does NOT have her best interests at heart.
Please remember this when your daughter whines about her wanting the relationship with her father not to be monitored.
Simply ask yourself if a normal father/daughter relationship would have anything to hide....

[onlyrenting]

Mum, I found this and wonder about his efforts to use a code word, I believe it's to see if she read his letter.

Simply ask yourself if a normal father/daughter relationship would have anything to hide

I was just reading todays letter again, He is telling her to e-mail him as soon as she gets this letter.
the very last sentence on the letter I will not let her read is the words
..........a father always understands.

The letter today says use the code word a father always............ she would not know to put understands because she never got this letter.

I don't want to give her that letter........it's like seeds that will sit deep inside and someday come out to only hurt.  I guess he will figure it out if she emails him with out the code word "understands."


Long, and Mum, I appreciate your wisdom about 12 yrolds, I feel better that someday she will know her mom wants the best for her.

Mum,

she settled down because deep down, she knows you are looking out for her. Don't for a second worry about her being "mad" at you. Better a temporarily angry teenager than a severely damaged adult. You are an awesome mom. Do not doubt yourself.

thanks for making me feel better.


Mum, I will make sure the court knows about this.

This letter you mention is what the court needs to see...it's the scariest of all

.

thank you all so much ...............OR

 

[miss piggy]

Hello OR,

Just checking in to cheer you on.  You ARE absolutely doing right by your daughter by protecting her (at age 12) from a sick person.  If this person were not her father, you would have NO hesitation.  He has not preserved the right to have unmonitored contact with this young girl because he is not trustworthy and not looking out for her (the true child) interests.  The password thing is creepy.  To twist his logic around, if a normal father/daughter relationship doesn't have anything to hide, why is he hiding from her mother?  Would you trust a boyfriend who didn't like her to be open with her parents?  Maybe that's an inappropriate analogy, but is he behaving in a trustworthy way?  And is it fair to ask a child that type of question to lead her to evaluate her father's behavior?  She wouldn't be able to.  I know because I wasn't able to.  I didn't have enough life experience to know that my own parent would cause me harm or not have my interests at heart.  My father didn't care about me, didn't want to spend time with me, didn't want to provide for me and I thought he was great!!!  What daughter doesn't want to think the best of her dad?

I'm glad your mail monitoring is out in the open, too, and that your D has settled down.  Perhaps she didn't realize just how difficult it was going to be to manage her dad's expectations of her and hopefully she is relieved to have your protection.  

Keep documenting your STBXH's stuff.  My d's are around the same age and they don't like anything I have to say very much these days.  Just comes with the teenage, hormonal, all reactions/no thinking stage we've so been bracing ourselves for!  

You're doing so great and everyone has had such great advice.  I'm so glad you are seeing some good results.  Hugs, MP

[onlyrenting]

Went to church then to the fair, had lots of fun.

SIL, asked me what was in the letter, BIL would not tell her, only I was not letting D read it. 
No way I could tell her! I quickly told some truths but not the main most hurtful one.
I told BIL, SIL asked me what was said. He said "tell me again what EX said",
he said "EX had the wrong town"
I have known BIL 29 yrs, no surprize!!! But NEVER with me...
I went to school with SIL, and would never hurt her. I'ts not by Biz, and all the same not my 12yr olds.



Marta : EX already tried this one............Big joke......didn't work.

your D that you are the woman BIL is having an affair with!!

With her, the game is just beginning. She’s sweet, she’s vulnerable, above all, she wants his love, wants to believe in his goodness; she is only twelve. I wouldn’t expect him to go away anytime soon, if at all. Think of how many decades it takes for most of us to severe ties with our N families.

Today I had both  D and BIL together to agree if D reads any thing that concerns his family to speak only to him, not to talk about such things to his wife or kids................

D says mom, "dad hasn't sent her anything like that and not to worry".

I wouldn’t count on him playing by the rules of the court, even if he is forced into supervised communication. He’ll find a way to pull D more and more into this sick game of hide and seek and coded communications.

I will remind her and the courts EX is  not to share information about his brother.
If he finds away to continue with this type of attack, I will ask the court to consider a contempt of court.

I learned not to be his supply, all I can do is give my D the same and better tools as fast as possible.
Im stubborn to and he will have a fight on his hands. I never had support growing up, but she does.
I never knew what an N was until 1yr ago. I do now ...........The more I learn about this sickness the harder I want to fight for her safety.

He left you alone because he saw that there is no possibility of any supply from you

I know this is so true, I used to believe ex, just had alot of bad luck......I think now he makes a lot of bad decisions. I see how much others are trying to help him but he is choosing no compromise, not willing to come here to see his daughter. After awhile people just give up accept N's  make bad choices. 

They must poison everything that is good and loving and nurturing in this world; that is how they find the fuel to carry on and their only satisfaction out of life.

I guess this means my D needs to learn how to put up boundries, so she won't be N supply.



MP:  You know this is very helpful, fathers court their daughters, meaning they pursue them not to be a boyfriend, but little girls want to be wanted. They want their fathers to want them so the father brings them gifts or shows them they are desireable.

If this person were not her father, you would have NO hesitation.  He has not preserved the right to have unmonitored contact with this young girl because he is not trustworthy and not looking out for her (the true child) interests.  The password thing is creepy.  To twist his logic around, if a normal father/daughter relationship doesn't have anything to hide, why is he hiding from her mother?  Would you trust a boyfriend who didn't like her to be open with her parents

I didn't catch the password thing at first, I wrote on the letter what the password is. I don't think she pays that much attention. I don't know if she  e-mailed him, she may not read that close and didn't catch that he wanted her to e-mail him with  the password. If she asks me about writing the password I may tell her and if she doesn't she knows what to type. She receives 3-4 a week and gets board with them. She must have 1 million necklaces, and little 1 dollar gifts. Im hoping she will think she didn't see the password at first, and later if he asked she as an answer.  It won't matter on Tuesday the court will have the letter in question.
I will then explain the password thing. I just want a little time and have him off gaurd when he goes to court.


MP:

dad's expectations of her and hopefully she is relieved to have your protection. 

As time goes on I hope she will be strong in this belief, I know when I was young sometimes I did not feel this way with my N-mother.  I want her to have this deep inside that she is protected and loved.




 Thanks for all your support...............OR

[onlyrenting]

Tuesday 8am CA time, I have to call the court to speak with the mediators regarding custody.

Today I received EX's court response. He lied on every level. I will let you all know how it goes.

D and I went to a move to get away for a few hours. I have not said too much about tomorrow, she has to speak with the mediators. I didn't want her to worry and not be able to sleep. In the Am I will let her know it's time for her to make the courts know what they need to understand about her future. We had talked last week about what she wanted to do.
She only wants to spend 2weeks in the summer. She worries about him driving with her while on his meds. She asked him to come here to visit for TG, but he said he will never come here. If she wants to see him, she must come to CA.

Her dad wants her back in CA, said he has more surguries but he can take care of her with no problem.
Claims he has had no contact with her with out my interferance. Im a drug addict not able to take care of myself or her.
All lies easy for them to be proven. A hair or blood test is standard and will make him the liar he is.
He wants to do what ever he can to make this more difficult on me. 

He claims I was abusing him during his time of recovery from surgury. BLA BLA...........

I don't feel worried, I know I have taken examples, stories,  everything I could think of.
I have a book of information emails and more and documented papers to prove everything.
He has one page of BS and nothing to show any proff. He spit out his poisin, talked about how sick he was and feel sorry for him
the father that only cares for his daughter with all his heart. Mom is the bad person keeping the love of his live away from him.

I will let you know what happens..........OR

[Marta]

Hi OR,

I am glad that he is not a slick, glib liar, but one of those crude outrageous ones. Yes, I too see no problems in disproving the allegations like drugs, especially with the bizarre letters you have in your possession. Glad that you are feeling calm and in control. Seems like the perversity of it all has also hit home for D.

I guess this means my D needs to learn how to put up boundries, so she won't be N supply.

That's exactly it!!!! There is only so much you can do to protect her, but teaching her how to protect herself is one of the nicest gifts you can give her. She is blessed to have a nurturing mother to help her navigate through the murky waters.

All the best for tomorrw. May every loving force on this earth be by your side tomorrow to proect you and your daughter from harm. Please keep us posted on how it goes.

Love, Marta

[onlyrenting]

Today both D and I spoke with the mediator.

I had requested he not listen to the call and to have a private meeting.
She normally talkes to the person who filed first for divorce she goes to them first.
I had called and so she went with me first.



!. We are ok to stay in TX felt it was a good move. no problem.
She asked how the move took place, I explained how H said he would shoot me and for D's safety I did not let her know the exact day. (even though she found out from the school receptionist the day before)

How we were making the plans for sveral months and H decided he was going to leave us, and told me I was not going to TX. I told how when we got here to TX we found out about his/Ds large sum of money
That he wanted that money for himself. Also he is in CA says he lives on 700 mo but rent is 1,000 mo.
Im thankful now he has that money so he stays there.
 

2. She agrees to have him supervised by his brother in TX and if he didn't like it too bad.
This was based on his past, taking his meds while driving with D and where the police were involved.
I explained his emotional problems, she did not have them in front of her but assured me the Judge would need to see his mental evaluation.

3. She said he is making claims Im an alcoholic and our D has FAS. Fetal Alcoholic Sydrome.

She recommends I take my D to a doctor that can check her for FAS.
What a punk to say this. She is 12 a doctor has never said this to be true, I don't drink, did not drink while I was preg. Jerk, D is saying thanks dad, we just read somthing about they are often retarded and have learning problems.  She got high 90's - 100 in her classes.

4. D spoke to the mediator, I don't know what was said, the mediator said she enjoyed the conversation and D was a sweet girl.

I asked if she could make him stop the letters regarding the adult content, she said it was not her place.
Told me to speak with the judge.

I felt she was on my side and understood my concerns. She had not talked to EX yet, so I will find out more after the report is complete. I thought she was helping me out and I got to tell her everything regarding D's safety concerns.


I have to go find a doctor for the FAS to check out D .................OR

[onlyrenting]

Back from the Dr's. for the FAS.

WHAT A JOKE, The doctor checked our D out with a physical, I told the doctor why we were there. She said D is to pretty to be FAS.  children are born withl it's not something that develops later in life.

D was upset because the female doctor gave her a breast exam. We talked about the lower IQ's of FAS children and how she has 90-100 in her classes, allways been an extra smart kid. I guess FAS have smaller heads, the eyes and ears and hands are not developed fully.
We started laughing and could not believe how absurd her dad was being. She was not happy with dad, and finding herself being examed was not making her happy. She said all she could think of is being half naked ..........

The doctor will write a letter to the court to say she does not have FAS.
It makes me angry, Im one of those people that, took very good care of my health, I even swam up until the month of Oct when she was born. Her BD is the 26th and mine is Halloween. 
I take care of myself and don't drink or smoke, so it just drives me nuts but did what the court asked.

She was giving me lots of hugs today..........I need every one of them.............OR

[Plucky]

OR, it's wonderful the way you are dealing with this awful situation.  I am in awe of your coping skills.
It's horrible that your daughter basically had to be violated due to her father's lies.  How is she doing with that? 
Plucky

[Marta]

OR, the more info you post about NH, the more bizarre and dangerous he sounds. I am so glad that mediator is on your side. I am impressed that D has self-confidence to say so that she was unhappy with being half-naked in an examination room. I know I at her age would not have been able to articulate that sort of thing, even to myself. It is a tribute to you as a mother.

Please keep us posted on follow-ups on this topic. Marta