Author Topic: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie  (Read 1813 times)

Grace

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NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« on: October 04, 2005, 03:04:44 AM »
Hi All,

I'm having a difficult time at the moment.
I got away from the Nfather of my children with my 3 children when they were 9, 9 & 6.  I tried to protect them & encouraged them to blossom in quite harrowing circumstances for them & me.  One of my children died aged 18. The other 2 are now in their 20s.  I am so unhappy as I've just realised that they are both consummate liars like their father.  Now I feel that they are both N to varying degrees & feel that the difficulties I experienced bringing them up, in the face of their Nfather's continued agression & chronic harrassement of all of us, were a waste of my time, effort, life.   I still love my children but I don't like them at all.  They take no responsibility for their lies & turn the situation around to making everthing my responsibility. How miserable can life get?  Does anyone have the experience of their children becoming like an Nparent?

Grace

vunil

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Re: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2005, 03:14:34 AM »
Oh, Grace, don't despair!  I can feel the hopelessness in your post.  Nobody is done growing and changing when in their 20's-- most of us don't even know ourselves until a good deal later than that.  The best adjusted people behaved ridiculously in their 20's-- sure, some people are marvelous at that age, mature, kind, ethical, balanced, but most of us are not.  I am sure all of us here could share with you embarrassing memories of our behavior at that age!

Whatever love and kindness you gave, whatever sense of ethics and fairness, has to be lurking in those children.  The young are naturally in love with themselves and that will be true for now, but don't give up on your kids, please.  It is really unlikely that both of them are fully N like their Dad.  If they are, you'll find out later, but I am betting they are just in a stage now.  You can make a big difference with them, by being an influence for good to counteract your ex's evil.  Of course youngsters don't want to take responsibility-- you can help teach them to do better.  Please don't think you wasted anything-- motherhood is the most important job and you gave them a real shot at turning out better than their father.  Just that chance is worth something.  Even if your darkest fears are realized and both children are utterly lost to N, you made a big effort to prevent that, which is itself a worthwhile life's work. (And as I said, it is unlikely both kids really are that lost, weirdo dad or not).

hang in there and feel free to post more details, if it helps to chat about it. 


Sallying Forth

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Re: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2005, 03:28:04 AM »
Welcome to the forum Grace!

Interesting! I am dealing with that very thing with my step-son. Although my t says it is too early to tell if he is like his Nmother at this point. He's in his mid-twenties and adults at that age show many N traits. And it is even possible he has inherited his father's ADHD and that could account for selfishness.


Don't despair. They may come out the other side in their 30's being more like the adults you raised them to be.
The truth is in me.[/color]

I'm Sallying Forth on a new adventure! :D :D :D

Moira

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Re: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2005, 07:06:08 PM »
Hi Grace and welcome! although not a parent I can only imagine your fears and pain. Whatever happens, it is not your fault- I know this may sound trite but it's true. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that being a mother is the toughest job in the world. I work in psychiatry and although alot of research and literature seems to indicate that N personality first emerges in late teens, it's unfair to label or diagnose people at that age- and even in early 20's as personality still emerging and solidifying. Out of curiousity- do your kids lie and lack responsibility towards others? Friends? Other relatives? Work or school? Etc. Moira
I've just ended abusive relationship of 1 yr. with male narcissist. I cycle between stages of anger and grieving and have accepted it. Hope I've alienated him so he won't recontact me- is this possible?     Moira

mum

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Re: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2005, 08:30:35 PM »
Welcome, Grace. 
I think Moira asks an important question.  Do your kids act this way only toward you, or toward others?  Could it be they are just doing this with you (because they have that modeled by dad, or because you are mom)?

 I also see that kids of all ages behave differently with mom than anyone in the world.  Starting with toddlerhood.  Mom is safe, so they save up all the crap they have been dealing with all day and let it out on mom!!

 Dr. Anthony Wolf describes this perfectly in his book on teenagers (the second toddlerhood in my opinion): "Get out of my Life...but first could you drive me an Cheryl to the mall". (yup, that's the name of the book...great book, not all humorous...)
He thinks that how kids behave with their parents is NOT a good indicator of how they are as people....as they will not spend their lives with the parents. 
I see this as a teacher: kids who are awesome students, funny and kind, and they are horrible with their parents. Ok, not horrible, but certainly not how they are toward me or their peers in school.

But I understand your children are not adolescents.  Perhaps the same dynamic is at work?

I will admit I occassionally worry about this same thing with my teenagers.  I know the operative word is "teenager" but on occassion, I see tendencies for them to be like their N father.  Then the feeling passes and I realize that they are not always like that, they are just expressing negative feelings in a  genetic manner (facial expressions like dad, etc) and perhaps some of what they do has to come from what they see dad do (environmental).  My leaving that abusive relationship, though, was a real boost for them in the "how to treat people" department....;
All in all, they are young, and although my ex never progressed emotionally past adolescence, they most likely will (they are already much nicer people).

Whatever you conclude, I hope you will not "blame" yourself for your children's lives and how they relate to people.  It's their path, and although you did what you could...beyond a certain point, they are responsible for their own lives. 

And you CAN set boundaries with grown children. My friend had to call the police on her angry/abusive adult son, so I know the implications can be extreme. But he same "rules" apply to adult children as smaller ones: "Mom will not accept that language/demeaning talk (whatever) from anyone.  When you are ready to discuss this respectfully, let me know.. I am .....(going, leaving the room, going to Europe, calling the cops..whatever......). Decide what YOU will and will not accept from anyone in your life, and let others (kids included) decide for themselves once they know your boundaries.
Bless you, I know how kids can wrench our hearts (they occupy so much space in there!!).

Plucky

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Re: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2005, 11:06:01 PM »
Grace,
you must be very hurt by your recent realisation.  All I can say is that children are not really what you make of them.  They come into the world with their own personalities, and some believe, past and karma.   You are there to look after them until they can look after themselves.   You have done that and you have been devoted to that task.

If they do not turn out the way you hope, which is something you can only wait to determine in the future when they are fully grown, you cannot blame yourself.   Think what kind of people they would be if you were abusive or neglectful.   You have improved their lot to the full extent you were able.  You know you did the most you could to make sure they were nurtured. 

I wish I had more useful advice.   You know you did a good thing in raising them, and you will know that forever.  There are other factors that you cannot control.
Plucky

Grace

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Re: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2005, 01:16:49 PM »
Thank you all so very much.  I don't feel alone with this situation any more.  Your replies are validating & comforting.

Mati

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Re: NFather of my children & Adult Children who lie
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2005, 03:24:40 PM »
Hello Grace

I left my sons (22 & 18) with their father. They wanted to be with him and by then had adopted his behaviours and attitudes. They were agressive towards me before I left, and had been lying to me for a number of years. Their father said he wanted out of the marriage but for us to live in the same house ie me to have no say over his behaviour or the finances. Instead of leaving, I was forced into doing it and my sons stood by and said nothing. They wanted him because he enables their bad behaviour, has never tried to guide or discipline them, so that they are his little army and enable him to live in his fantasy world where he refuses to take responsibility for anything and does not work or do anything useful, at the same time, has them sticking up for him and excusing him for everything, whereas I get the blame for everything.

I do think that they will improve when they get older, unless they are n's. If so then there was nothing I could have done. A lot of kids are different when they reach the 30's. I tried to bring them up to be honest, and I just hope that the early influence will stick once they get past the selfish stage. My worry is that I will get so fed up with them that I will give up. I have got to that point a few times. I can only keep going by remembering that they did not have a choice in the influence of their father, and that it is natural for the young to go for the easiest option and what brings them the most gain.

I have detatched myself some now and do not give them the treats I gave before. I spend my money on me now and tell them they need to learn how to manage without using me as a cash dispenser.

You have got a lifetime with them, to develop the relationship. This has helped me.