Why do Ns hate their mothers? or fathers??

[Lara]

Hi Everyone,
My ex seemed to idolise his mother, who had brought him up on her own. I never met her because she lived abroad, but boy did she look tough in her photo!
Even in my addicted (to him) and unquestioning state of mind, it struck me as strange, because he told me that even when he was in his late teens, she would still check that he had cleaned his teeth.(On some days during our r/ship, he would tell me that he had not cleaned his teeth that morning, because as his mother was not nearby he didn't 'have to.')

He also told me that when he was a teenager, if he brought a new girlfriend to his home, his mother would sometimes tell the girl not to get too excited about him, because she was just the latest in a long line! (Is this Mum sabotaging something, or speaking the truth, or basking in her son's ability to charm the pants off anybody?)

Is this kind of idealisation, mingled with a fear of being controlled, a familiar pattern? (And incidentally I've just remembered that in the phase of our r/ship when my ex thought I was the most wonderful angel he'd ever met, he ALSO used to accuse ME of controlling him.)

Sending love to everyone here,
Lara.

[Moira]

I am a nurse working in psychiatry for 20 yrs. Not alot of definitive research on causes of n. Some argue there is a genetic component. Most believe there was some sort of neglect, abandonment or abuse to the child at the early age when trust is being developed. typically for male Ns there was some element, either overtly or covertly of above with their mothers. If one doesn't learn to trust parents- they are first and only role models for kids- kids invent themselves and use others to protect themselves. It's been my expereince where there is one N in a family, you usually find another. In my family, my mother was a N and my older sister is one. Of her kids, 2 are N. My other sister has a N daughter. My mother was told repeatedly by her father she wasn't wanted and if they did want another child, she should have been a boy. She had 2 much older sibs who tortured her. My older sis- the N- was spoiled rotten, was raised as only child( is much older than me) and my N mother controlled and lived vicariously through her. This sis's oldest daughter also was totally catered to, all her horrible behaviour excused. My younger sis's daughter- a N- has grown up in a household where she too was spoiled, no discipline and she terrorizes her family. she is deviod of empathy, completely self centred , and uses people. Very flamboyant, a liar and is a hypochondriac.

[Sallying Forth]

I posted this because the subject was about N's hating their parents, but I never got that feeling from the N I knew.  He told me the stories about his mom and all.  

I guess I am just wondering if the behavior I mentioned in my earlier post and this one fit with the npd thing because it seems that the n's tend to hate one or both of their parents and I didn't get that from N in this case....

But, I do know he is a great actor, so maybe

Hmmm ... your xguy sounds like my Nbrother. He and my Nmother have this strange bond. And wouldn't you know it, he even lives right behind her. Strangely he purchased and lived in his home for many years before my Nparents decided to retire and build right behind his home. Their backyards are literally connected!!! No fence!!! 

In my Nbrother's eyes my Nparents did a great job and I'm the one that doesn't know what I'm talking about. My Nbrother was my abuser too. He continued to perpetrate on his wife when I "left" the family. They divorced and he began on his new wife. I know because she told me when I met her in 1998.

There's no hate relationship between my Nbrother and my Nparents. They all get along just F.I.N.E.!!! My Nmother worships the ground my Nbrother walks on and vice versa.

[Brigid]

I am late coming on to this post, but had a few comments to make.  As I work through my childhood in therapy, what I have determined is that my father was the n, but I have more resentment towards my mother because she supported and enabled the behavior and never put her children first.  I believe this to be true of my xh as well.  His father is a raging n that was an alcoholic my xh's whole life.  I think he unconsciously resents the fact that his mother did not leave this man to protect her children, in addition to the alcoholism being a family secret that no one would discuss.  But he is conflicted by the resentment because his mother was the only one who supported him and his love of music and the stage when he was growing up.  His father was only interested in his children who were athletic and academic as he had been.  Stupidly, my xh then went into business with his father and has allowed himself to be totally controlled by him for the last 25 years.  The only normal sibling is the one who moved far away and has very limited contact.

I guess my point is, and I think it was made previously too--the father may be the n, but if our mothers, who we look to for nurturing, protection and love, did not do that, the lasting impact from that lack of protection from the perpetrator can be greater than the abuse itself.  Based on my own experience, I am probably going overboard in my efforts to protect my children from the affects of their father's nism.  It also creates constant anxiety for me that I need to get under control before it eats me alive.

Brigid

[Bloopsy]

From what I have reaed about N it is like a horrible death sentence of a life and caused by disruptions/ abuse by parents/those meant to love/care for the child and however nice they may seem to an outsider, it's really easy to be nice to an outsider but have no time for your own child. I don't understand how an N could not harbor resentment towards their parent for raising them o a life of such a torturous experience.

[Sallying Forth]

PS> all the n-s I've known so far ( 4, possibly 5 ) it was the faulty relationship with the MOTHER which let them down...

Isn't that what has been said about every single mental illness and afflication since time began?   Are mothers still to fault for everything?  Granted there are some doozies out there.  But there are so many other things influencing kids, such as, oh I dunno, dads?

Dad can have a tremendous impact on their daughters. If they don't give them the support, love and acceptance they need, the daughters will marry someone very similar to their father. They can also lose sense of their identity as a girl/woman.


My Nmother disliked her mother. She probably hated her too. Although I never heard her say that but she said horrible things about her. She was very abusive to my Nmother, her sister and brother. My Nmother didn't get the brunt of the abuse but watched her siblings get it.

[IamNotJadedYet]

i identify with this question.  i am 58, and until fairly recently, never understood what was wrong with my "evil" sister (my other sister is fine).  my two sisters are 13 and 15 years older than i, with the eldest being the "evil" one.  i knew that she tried to turn my mother against my sister, my father, and me.  she was truly the meanest person i ever knew.  now that i've learned what "projection" is.........well, she was the queen of projection.  mother was a rather weak and dependent individual, which  proved a perfect target.   i have an older son (37) who is very much like my evil sister.  i often wondered why he began targeting me.  his father and i  provided a loving and stable home (a 40 year marriage) for him.  by the will of God (or nature, if you will), i wasn't able to have more children until the first son was almost 12.  he resented the sister and brother that came along, even though we remained totally devoted to him as well.  i was always a stay at home mom.  we never left the children with babysitters, were always involved in their school, extra curricular activities, encouraged them to explore their talents, etc.  we loved our children.......all of them.  he, however, resented me for having more children, and began trying to undermine my authority with the little ones.  he would tell them i was stupid because i wouldn't let them watch MTV when they were little ones, or X-rated movies, etc.  he would switch the tv when i would leave the room.    everything is too long to go into now, but i just want to say that i must take issue with theories that N's have to have had certain traumas, such as molestation, abuse, etc., during their childhoods to become N's.  I think that some people are just wired a certain way, and they would end up being N's no matter what.   I only speak from experience.  My oldest son has no empathy, is cruel, feels entitled, is lazy, cannot express emotions (other than anger), makes fun of people who do show emotion, is envious if someone has something he does not have, brags,............and the list goes on.  he was not raised like that, nor did he witness that behavior growing up.  i just don't understand.

 Other good posts here.Of course only a cetified APA mental health professional can legaly label someone with a PD.Especially with "Psychopaths" unless they are incarcerated this is not possible.So we guess.

  Here are links that might be helpful.

http://www.geocities.com/lycium7/psychopathy.html

"Narcissistic Personality Disorder: These two disorders are close" ASPD/sociopaths/psychopaths  a quote from this link

http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library/person/asp.html



  All psychopaths appear to be Narcists,Narcists are not psychopaths.Narcists come in many degrees.So do Psychopaths acording to Harre considered numero uno expert on these Super deadly Vampires.In comparison the garden variety Narcist is like catching a bad Tick.Unfortunately have known both types never to my knowledge on the scale of Ted Bundy or BTK though.Your description points to "PSYCHOpath" recently it has been shown that the brains of "Psychopaths" are different from average people.Can't remeber the part of the brain but it is where researchers think that emotions such as Empathy originate.
 the consenous ive read from theMental health  Gurus is that Nism has to do with caregivers but ASPD?Psychopathy/sociopaths extreme the emerging consenus they are born this way.
 Good Luck be careful and discerning.

[Liza Jane]

I have alway wondered about my daughter's behavior and found this website.  Reading the original message from the Mother and I found I could really relate to her story. I have a daughter (37 years old) who is the older of two children. Her brother is a fine caring person and very responsible. I was also wondering why one sibling is okay while the other is a "she devil". I could go on about her episodes but fear I would bore with the details. . My daughter is like a Jekyll & hide; she can be sickening sweet to other on the outside but verbally abusive to me. Anyone else want to comment? Thanks,

[Gail]

Is it possible that she could have a mental illness?  I have one child, out of several, who has a severe mood disorder.  She has been very abusive to me and the other children.  With medication, I see a big improvement.  She had signs of problems ever since infancy--couldn't sleep, hard to comfort, that just got worse as she got older. 

Gail

[Moira]

Hi Liza Jane! Just read your post. D's behaviour may also be related to bipolar- if there's been a clear history of mood swings, depression, agitation, suddenly dramatically reduced sleep, speedy speech, increased disinhibited behaviour- classic- +++ spending, drugs and alcohol, promiscuity etc. Also may be one of the other fairly common personality disorders- cross overs with N and others- borderline personality disorder. If you're interested, check it out on the internet. You may recognize patterns of behaviour that may be very familiar and fitting the criteria. Boundaries and enforcing consequences- consistently and are enforceable. Anyway, food for thought. Moira