New Person Wandering Here

[LostSurvivor]

Hello:

I've joined today and have been exploring the site, wandering around and thinking that I should try to introduce myself better. Clear communication isn't one of my best skills; nMom silenced me very early on and I became the quietest person in school. She also had me quite afraid of her early on; my earliest memories are of her are always being angry. I have no memories of any affection from her. She was happiest when she was the center of attention and making a fuss over something or other. To make a long story short, she was (and still is) narcissistic, although I did not know the term until recently from visiting Internet sites and finding the diagnostic criteria. The self-doubt, guilt, fear that I experienced in childhood and beyond continues to affect my life. Finding out that she contributed to it has been both a relief and a shock. Relief because there is an explanation; a shock because why did it have to happen to me? Another shock because the problems with my husband are also now explained. Completely blinded, after surviving my Nmom, I married an Nhusband who is like my mother.

If we did not have children who are still at home, my course of action might be clearer.  I have been standing up to him over the last several months, setting boundaries, trying to be the normal parent for the sake of my kids, while trying to make some career changes involving being in school fulltime. He definitely doesn't like me standing up and thinking for myself and verbally attacks me all the time because he does not agree with my career move. A real ugly side surfaced while I'm not working in that he is getting more verbally abusive in front of the kids, telling them that I am using him for his money (he's not paying for the school), that I am a failure because I do not have a job (it's useless to tell him that I'm not presently looking), and canceling joint credit cards and telling me to open my own. I have always worked and not experienced such wrath related to money before. Our financial situation is fine, so there is no reason for this other than he loves the feeling of power because he is the only one working.

I have found that if I stay very alert I can anticipate some situations where he is likely to verbally attack, and adjust my location in the house to stay out of his way. I have also adjusted to be near the kids when he is near them, by doing something like unloading the dishwasher or other task so it doesn't look obvious. He has little self control, and will harass them by calling them "stupid" or otherwise while he tries to "help" them with their homework or other task. I have stood up to him about this, and he controls himself when I am around. The kids really do not need help; he just likes to make them feel that they need him.

Maintaining this semistable state is exhausting me, and is affecting my ability to plan, as this situation cannot go on indefinitely.  He works from home, going out about 20% of the time for business, and his constant presence is draining. He also has no outside interests or friends to get him out, preferring to play video games with our son and watch a lot of TV. I've told him that we need a counselor, which he refuses to consider, and says that I can't use his company sponsored health insurance to see one for myself. Because I'm not working, I do not want to spend from my own pocket due to the expense. I know he is being abusive, but feel that it is so complicated to resolve. That is part of the reason I joined; perhaps I can become better oriented by sharing my story.
Thanks for reading.   The LostSurvivor

[Sela]

Dear LostSurvivor:

Welcome.  My heart goes out to you.  It sounds like a really difficult situation for you, right now (and it doesn't sound like growing up was a whole lot of fun either  ).  I'm sorry for all you've been through.  I want to say that I think you are brave.

It takes courage to "stand up to him", set boundaries, change careers, go back to school full-time, especially when you suffer from self-doubt, guilt and fear.  So, if you ask me, you're doing amazingly well and I want to encourage you to keep going (even though it is so tough).

I was also wondering....if there might be a women's shelter around.....where you might find someone to support you?  Usually, it is very low cost or free there and they will definately understand what you're going through.   The people there want to help and will accept whatever decisions you make.

I  have found that if I stay very alert I can anticipate some situations where he is likely to verbally attack, and adjust my location in the house to stay out of his way.

Like walking on eggshells?  This brings to mind a warrior........creeping about a dangerous woods......trying to stay out of sight......while tracking his enemy....to report his position back to head quarters (maybe I've not watched enough war movies to get that one right....sounds kinda lame eh? ).

Those eggshells are mighty sharp.  That enemy could pop out from behind a tree at any moment.  A constant state of alert?  That just sounds so very stressful.
No wonder you're feeling so exhausted!

I don't know if you have a friend to confide in, or anyone to talk to.....all I can say is that if you don't.....it wouldn't hurt to talk to someone.... for you.  To help you....get through this.   And if you can possibly do little things for yourself....to help feel good......like bubble baths, listening to music you like, taking a nice walk.....please do those little things.  Anything to help yourself keep surviving.

You are a survivor!!  You're doing a great job!!  It just seems like it might be a little easier with someone to help you sort it all out.  What do you think?  Would you consider calling a women's shelter?

I know he is being abusive,

I think so too.  I think it's confusing and draining to live with.  It's complicated, as you put it.  It's tormenting and scary.

I'm so sorry for all of that, if I'm anywhere close, but I am very glad that you are setting boundaries and working on your career goal, regardless of him.  I'm glad you're keeping a close eye on your children and doing your best to shield them.  Good for you!!  Keep doing that!!

And I think you expressed yourself very well.  Nothing wrong with your communication.

(((((((((((LostSurvivor))))))))))

Sela

[Plucky]

Hello Lostsurvivor.
You are doing a awesome amount of work.  It sounds very challenging.  You are wonderful for supporting your children and above all being a good example to them of making change in a relationship.

Do you have a plan?  I mean, are you biding your time until you get your diploma and then you'll be independent?  How long will it be before you can move out?

If you are covered by your husband's insurance, he cannot dictate how you use the benefits.  He does not have to approve or even know what you do.  Go ahead and get counseling or whatever you want.

Your husband sounds horrible.  It just sounds awful to live that way.  I am in a similar situation.  Just waiting until I have time to move out and hope that he does not make it a war.

Good luck and hope to hear from you again.
Plucky

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hi LostSurvivor

I am sorry to hear about your current situation (and your childhood), but I am also amazed by your strength and bravery in your current homelife.  I feel one important thing to possibly remember is to trust in your own mind... it's so easy to doubt when you have someone verbally abusing you.

As the other's have said... is there anyone you can talk to?  A friend or family member?  Or another option is to see your GP who can possibly advise of help groups, and maybe even a counselling service. 

Keep posting and take care.

H&H xx

[Sallying Forth]

Hi LostSurvivor and welcome to the board.

Sounds like you are walking on egg shells waiting for the next bombs to fall. I was there for a long time, years and years, so I do know the situation you are in. It wreaked havoc on my health and well being too.

Finding this board helped me begin the process of letting go and it is a process. It begins in the heart. Then the mind follows. And soon the body says, "That's enough!"

Trust yourself. Take baby steps. Find your way out. The first step is coming out of denial. You have already accomplished that. Keep going. Keep reading and writing here. Read as many books as you can on NPD. Read the What Helps Forum on this board. Read the web site links. Inform yourself. Educated yourself. Then plan for you and your children.

((((((((((((((((((LostSurvivor))))))))))))))))))

[write]

HI LS and welcome.

Sounds like you're doing really well.

There is no short cut to dealing with an N and as you're seeing he needs to feel necessary/ power/ attention to a ridiculous degree and no matter what you all do he'll need more- it's about him and his inadequacies.

Yes it's exhausting, draining to be in this constant state of alert waiting for the shoe to drop...he knows that, that's why he does it, but deep-down his biggest fear is abbandonment. Not just fear you will abandon him- fear you already have because nothing fulfills his baby attention needs.

Growing up with a pd parent means we are already conditionned by adulthood to tolerate and cope with behaviours more nurtured people would be uncomfortable with; also our self-esteem and self-identity is damaged. So many of us go on from one bad childhood situation to recreate it in a marriage.

Hope it helps to know you are not alone with this.

[LostSurvivor]

Thanks to all of you for responding. It helps to know that I am not alone. The crazy thing about this situation is that there is no physical proof of anything to anyone on the outside; it's all verbal/emotional mayhem either one on one or with the kids around. While I know people from the activities that my kids are in, it's not well enough to bring the subject of my husband up. And I have very little practice even bringing this difficult subject up, especially at a busy sports event. I suppose it goes back to not having anyone to talk to about my Nmom, so I just didn't.  (Dad always stayed far away from her in another section of the house....this is starting to sound familiar). I don't mean to sound difficult; I just feel like the day to day stuff is so time consuming.

On the subject of using his health insurance from his employer: he would find out because the insurance company sends all billing info to him and he sees it. He has made fun of me in the past in front of the kids, saying that I'm so messed up, so weak compared to him for suggesting to see a counselor. Him seeing the records would bring this all on big time and I don't yet know how to counter all that. He will become very loud and verbally abusive at the drop of a hat. He will go on for days putting me down and claiming that the insurance is all his.

If I could end the relationship without ever having to see him again, I would. But because of the kids I am torn over the right thing to do. Even if I got custody, he would be around for visits, and  I worry a lot about his influence on my son when they spend a lot of time one on one.  Lately, he's been spending more time than ever with son, because he had a huge fight with our 14 year old daughter. She is starting to talk to me about how he never keeps his word, his attention seeking ways; basically she is seeing him for what he is. We got a dog some time ago that he was to take care of, as he was all for it (I was busy enough and didn't want to be involved with it). He promised months ago to fence the yard, to drive about 2 miles to get the dog a license, and to take the dog to be spayed. He did none of these things and when my daughter reminded him of what he said he blew up, way, way out of proportion. He had her in tears and was telling her that "I am your God, you do not talk to me like that." I stood up for her in front of him and told her that I would understand if she never wanted to visit us again once she left home to avoid this craziness, whatever it took to shut him up. The part about me telling her to not feel obligated to come back seemed to have struck something, because he stopped the tirade, started a cold silence towards daughter, and focussed all of his efforts on being our 10 year old son's constant buddy. I think he sees son as the last one in the household that he can fool, and is working hard to make sure that it stays that way. But son is picking up his high and mighty attitude, and sarcasm. When I tell my son that he is rude, etc., and should not act that way, he corrects himself for a while, then starts again when husband is in the vicinity. The physical presence of husband definitely triggers obnoxious behaviors in my son.

If you have read this far, thank you so much. I feel like I am rambling at times. If anyone has any suggestions on how to reduce the time my son spends with dad within the house, I would be very, very appreciative. My husband hardly ever leaves the house, as he works from home, has no outside activities, and is almost like a puppy dog, following my son around, not giving him space, and treating almost like a 5 or 6 year old.  LostSurvivor

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya hon

I also relate to you appearing like a normal family to the outside.  I really feel for you... it is so difficult.  I'm not sure where you are but in the UK we have a samaritans helpline, which I think is free, and available if you ever really need to talk to someone.

Regarding your son, does he have many friends?  Maybe you can organise for him to go out with his friends, or maybe stay over at one of his friends houses once a week?  How about taking them for a trip to the cinema or something like that?

This was the kind of thing that was really lacking in my childhood, due to the controlling aspects of Mum and the lack of my stepdad to stand up to her.  I remember the school suggesting to my parents that I should get involved in more extra activities in the evenings etc and Mum promptly turned round and said "well, she doesn't want too" and then to me "do you?".... as a shy child, I was hardly likely to say yes.

Take care

H&H xx

 

[Brigid]

Welcome Lost Survivor,
I'm very sorry for what you and your children are having to live with.  I have married and divorced 2 n husbands due to my childhood with an n father, so I totally sympathize with your situation.  I think it is critical that you get some counselling, no matter what you have to do to make that happen.  You need to get to a stronger place so you can make good decisions for you and the children.  You need to be able to take back your power and you will probably need some professional intervention in order to make that happen.  I agree that if you are covered under his policy, he has no control over how you use it.  Perhaps you can talk to the therapist about the situation and he or she can help you with the billing arrangements.  They are trained to understand abusive situations and help the victim in whatever way possible (assuming you have found a good one).

You and your children are being emotionally abused.  I would agree with what others have said about seeking out a women's shelter.  I am connected to one in my community, and they are trained to understand emotional abuse.  It is considered worse than physical abuse.  You will find it difficult to discuss with casual acquaintances, as unless they have experienced it, or been close to someone who has, will not understand. 

You may want to contact an attorney for some advice on separating from this man.  You will need to have a great deal of documentation in order to get sole custody.  This is not easily granted by the courts.  You would most likely need to get some counseling for your children as well as part of the process--and this would probably be a very good thing for them.

There are many here who have been where you are and can offer some great advice.  Fortunately, in my case, the father of my children was not an abusive n and my children were mostly grown by the time the marriage ended.  You have a long, difficult road ahead of you so I hope you can find some good support from friends or family.

Blessings,

Brigid

[Plucky]

Hello LSurvivor,
You are in a very tough position and my heart goes out to you.  You are also doing many good things - protecting your children, thinking through how toxic your H is.  Obviously it is helping if your teen is able to analyse and talk through the situation.  Well done.

You might want to reach out to other parents and try to find a place where you can hang out with the kids in another famly situation.  Leave your husband at home to 'work'.  Maybe you could all relax a bit and witness a healthy family in action.

Good luck as you work through this.
Plucky

[LostSurvivor]

It's so good to hear all of your responses. I think that I am the type that experiences a lag between knowing what to do - getting counseling/help somehow, a lawyer, and actually doing it, and these posts help it along.  I actually developed a plan when I was 14 or 15 to make sure that I never lived in the same town as Nmom after high school, and it sounds pretty simple now: getting great grades in college so that I had job offers/other opportunities in a town FAR AWAY immediately after graduation. It worked but I spent so much time working on school that I failed/overlooked understanding the real problem (nMom) and that I was prey for people like her, and fell for a man just like her, without even realising my suspectiblity and what had happened. I'm still somewhat in a state of shock as I thought I was free and clear of her. nhusband also started out subtley with the bad behavior, and we lived apart (due to jobs) for a few years, so I didn't start to feel the brunt of the problem until about 6-7 years into the marriage and by then we had kids.

The fact that my daughter is realizing what is going on is an enormous relief. She has found a friend at school who has a Dad like hers and they are able to support each other. In my Internet travels on narcissism I've come across numbers like 1% of the population has it, and 3-4% are pretty far along in having it, so that comes to about 5% of adults who are noticably affected. For 50 sets of parents, that roughly means that there is a narcissitic or almost narcissistic parent in five of them (if it's one per couple) and that means that about 1 of every 10 classmates may be affected with crazy parent (I hope my math was right). She likes math so it helps to give her this perspective, and she seems to be handling his antics better.

Schools (in the US) have also progressed so much from my days (although I went to a religious school which ended up putting me way out of touch with some things in addition to nMom). My daughter came home yesterday and said that they were starting to cover 5 different personality disorders in health class and already she didn't think dad had schizophrenia (I agree). It's about time kids were matter of factly taught about PD, for their own future happiness.

I am trying to enlist her help in getting her brother away from my husband, in that we all need to support each other if we are to manage him. My son can be stubborn at times and that would involve her helping to "sell" him on the idea of going out a bit more to the movies, or whatever, as dad is coming at him all the time to be his playmate. She seems a bit receptive, as her tendency, naturally, is brother-sister rivalry (friendly) but I think she will entually see the urgency and she is getting fed up with dad ignoring her.

Again, I thank all of you, and agree. The idea that I must develop a concrete plan of action is settling in. I think that part of the problem is that he is not physically abusive, in which case there would be no other options but to leave fast.  LostSurvivor

 

[Brigid]

Lost,
Is your son involved in any sporting activities--basketball, hockey, swimming, soccer, whatever--where he can get away from his father, interact with other kids and maybe even have a coach who can be a good influence?  Another option might be martial arts, as I've heard that is great for teaching discipline and self-control.  If athletics don't interest him, how about an arts program?  Anything that will force him out of the house and away from your h.  Most of the public school systems have very inexpensive programs in many of these areas that you can join if you cannot afford a more private situation.  Even with very positive parental role models, I think it is valuable for children of that age to be involved in team or group activities which require them to cooperate with others.

I would be careful about putting too much of the burden on your daughter regarding her father.  She is at a very difficult age for a girl under the best of circumstances, and you don't want her feeling like she is now another parent in the household.  I know it is a very delicate line to walk, but for the sake of the kids and their development try not to involve them too much in the turmoil with your h.  This could also backfire on you down the road if you try to get full custody.  You don't want any claims of PAS (parental alienation syndrome) coming from your h, which it seems judges are very supportive of.

I am sure you are overwhelmed right now and doing the best you can.  Hang in there and try to keep a clear head--never easy with a crazy-making n living in the house.

Brigid

[Plucky]

Hi LS,
I understand that emotional abuse is actually worse than physical abuse.  So, not to stress you out, but it is just as urgent to get out, if that is the right solution.

I think it's great that you made a story problem out of NPD!   Bringing maths into the 21st century.
Plucky