Noticing cracks in friendships- would rather not see

[Chicken]

I am really upset...

A few weeks ago, my counsellor hinted that I may be avoiding intimacy with friends as well as boyfriends.  It really touched a nerve with me and I didn't take it well, as I felt as though I never had a problem with my friendships.  I have no problem making friends and I thought this was the one area of my life where I had healthy interactions!

Anyway, the whole thing has opened up a can of worms.  I find myself analysing my friendships and I have no idea whether they are ok or not, it's like I have lost a sense of what is ok now.  When you have been happy with something all along, and someone tells you it's not healthy, then it sort of really messes up your perception of what's ok. 

I find myself trying out different approaches with my friends, I think about dumping them, find myself being sensitive about the way they treat me when I never had a problem with it before.   

Is this how I am avoiding intimacy?  Because I have such loose easy going, no-ties friendships? 

Say for example, I have a good friend, lets call her Anna.  She called me on Friday asking what I am up to that night etc, I texted her telling her that I couldn't take her call as I was working, and that I was free on Saturday and would love to hang out if she's free, and she didn't get back to me.  Now this was something I never took notice of before, but all of a sudden, since my counsellor opened this can of worms, I am really sensitive to small things like this.  I am afraid I am going to mess up my friendships with all this stuff.  I am really torn as to whether I am being mistreated or not!?  I don't want people to take advantage of me. 

I give myself away too easily maybe, without conditions.  I'm not sure about this though... it's new territory

I am angry now with Anna for not getting back to me, then I think: she doesn't mean it, we are all so busy, (most of our friends have two jobs so time is precious) and she probably just forgot.  I never had a problem about it before and I don't want to suddenly turn into a freak.  This is really upsetting me.  I think this is why I prefer to be alone.  I am certainly not in the mood to meet up with any one of them again for a while.  I don't know how to handle the feelings I am having about this.  I am hurt and angry.  I feel like I want to punish her, I know this is wrong, but she can't just keep me hanging on, but then I think I am being way too hard on her.  No one could ever live up to my expectations...  I'm sure the poor girl has no idea I am upset about this. 

I think I preferred being ignorant about this kind of thing...  I was happy and this kind of thing never bothered me before, why now?  I don't want to make problems when there are none.  Am I over reacting?

I'm better off alone.

I always get back to people when they call or text me.  I don't think I let people down like this so it's not like we have this arrangement!  There have been occasions where I have had to cancel arrangements, but I always let people know. 

[Healing&Hopeful]

I always get back to people when they call or text me.  I don't think I let people down like this so it's not like we have this arrangement!  There have been occasions where I have had to cancel arrangements, but I always let people know. 

I'm sorry to hear how upset you are Selkie ((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))

Do your friends do the same with you?  If you ring them, do they call you back within a few days, do they let you know when they have to cancel agreements?  It's a two way thing and I feel depending on how your friends treat you is possible way of finding the answer to this.

It depends how good a friend Anna is.... can you talk to her about what your therapist said and why you are feeling upset with her?  Or maybe you can say to Anna, that although you appreciate she was busy, you'd like it if she could drop you a text next time she knows she's not able to make it, just to let you know.  I have a friend who works very hard, she is always working here, there and everywhere.  She has a high powered job and her job comes first.  She has phoned me half an hour before we are due to meet several times because she's in another part of the country and can't get back in time, but she's always very apologetic and I know what her livestyle is like and that she's been working away for half the week.  Also it can be weeks before I hear from her, again due to work.

Take care Selkie

H&H xx

[Chicken]

Hi H&H,
I am very understanding, and if I had a friend who couldn't make it for this reason or that reason it is not a problem with me.  I just like to know.  What bothers me is that they don't respond sometimes and they seem to think it's ok.  I asked my friend if she'd like to meet me on Saturday and Saturday (yesterday) came and went and she didn't respond.  I don't want to approach her about it as I don't want her to think I am being anal....  I am not sure if I am right in feeling this way or if this is all in my head...  maybe I am over reacting.

[Sallying Forth]

In your last post about this, the opening of the can of worms, you were noticing that after being with your friends you wanted to spend time alone and away from them. Perhaps you have sensed all along that these friends are being neglectful? Maybe that's why you want to be away from them after being with them? You feel violated but don't acknowledge it.

Your friend Anna is like my ex-Nfriend V., a no show when it wasn't on her terms or whenever she just felt like it. She wouldn't call or show up. She'd just shine me on. She would also be invasive and cross my boundaries. Of course I had to see the truth before deciding to jettison this very sick, neglectful and abusive relationship. It was hard because she was the last one I had held onto. Probably because she is N and very familiar.[/i]

[Sallying Forth]

Hi H&H,
I am very understanding, and if I had a friend who couldn't make it for this reason or that reason it is not a problem with me.  I just like to know.  What bothers me is that they don't respond sometimes and they seem to think it's ok.  I asked my friend if she'd like to meet me on Saturday and Saturday (yesterday) came and went and she didn't respond.  I don't want to approach her about it as I don't want her to think I am being anal....  I am not sure if I am right in feeling this way or if this is all in my head...  maybe I am over reacting.

YOU ARE NOT OVERREACTING!

YOU ARE NOT BEING ANAL RETENTIVE!

Classic anal retentive is someone who has Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. They are into perfectionism to the max. I know my Nmother has that. You don't strike me as being that way. 

What you are asking for not perfection rather common courtesy and caring. That is healthy.

[Chicken]

This is a different friend I am talking about this time, it is a similar post to the last one I guess, apologies for that!  
I am not sure if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill here though as I know my Friend wouldn't do it intentionally to hurt me.  

I know this has a lot to do with my spending time alone, that's for sure.  I have made the connection now.  I intend to go back in to hermit mode as I have been hurt by this.  I don't want to be around friends any more as they just keep hurting me and the whole thing confuses me...  I don't know if I am being too sensitive or if they really are hurting me.  They don't do it on purpose so does it count, it's not a huge crime etc...

I am watching Notting Hill as I write this.  I like Hugh Grants living situation with his flatmate.  I have been living in rented accomodation for 12 years now, and have always lived with strangers.  How nice it would be to have a connection with someone I live with.  

I think I am lonely...

[Gail]

For what it's worth, I think you should think about Anna some more.  Does she usually behave this way or was this something unusual?  Maybe when you said, "If you're free, I'd like to hang out with you", she interpreted that to mean to call you only if she could get together with you on Saturday.   If you said, "Please let me know if you're free on Saturday", then that would be different, and she definitely would have been disrespectful of you to not call.   Even in the first case, I think it would have been best for her to get back with you, but if she was super busy, or got distracted, then I don't think it's something that should end the friendship.  However, I suspect this may be a pattern with her and that's why it bothered you so much.  If that's so, and you want to save the friendship, you'll probably need to let her know that it is hurtful.

Gail

[mum]

I felt as though I never had a problem with my friendships

Now this was something I never took notice of before, but all of a sudden, since my counsellor opened this can of worms, I am really sensitive to small things like this.
 
I was happy and this kind of thing never bothered me before, why now?  I don't want to make problems when there are none.

Selkie: I would also be upset, but not about the friend not getting back to me. I would be upset because things like this never bothered me, and now, all of a sudden, I'm questioning my competence socially, and doubting my take on the world of friendships.

I'd be upset with my therapist for encouraging me to find negativity where there wasn't any for me before.  Personally, I'd like to grill her about this one!!! (as you can see, this pushes a button of mine!!!)

Friends not getting back to us....it happens in our busy lives all the time. You acknowledge this as well.
Didn't sound like you and Anna had definitive plans anyway (times, etc) so why get upset? How is getting upset productive for you?  I doubt YOU would make a mountain out of a molehill, but I bet your therapist would!
If you are mad at Anna, you could talk to her about it, but if you don't really care that much....and you already have let it go, emotionally, WHO THE HELL tells her client to question that?

Either there is more about friendships that you originally want to explore, and the counselor is taking your lead (which is how it should go) or she is NUTS.  Unless you led your therapist to believe that you had some big issues with friends, I would be asking her why she would tell a patient to look at something she feels good about and dig for cracks and negativity in it.........and then feel bad about it....jeeeeez!
I would seriously reconsider paying money to any therapist who encouraged me to question the good things in my life and doubt my own good sense (unless my "good sense" was I V drug use or something!!!).  Is she afraid your happiness will put her out of a job???  Therapists are people, too. What's she bringing to all of this???

[Plucky]

Hi Selkie,
Maybe your T meant something different than the type of thing your friend did.  Have you been talking to her about your friendships, about feeling lonely, about avoiding contact?  I would not immediately think that meant that the thing your friend did was the type of issue your T was referring to, (if there was any type of issue or behavior at all that she was referring to,) unless that really feels right to you.

There is something there.  Don't let others do thinking for you on this point.  This is where you need to do your own thinking.  Decide for yourself what makes you feel good, or bad.  Not your T, not us, no one should be deciding that for you. Only if it feels that way to YOU, should you take any action.

For me, what she did would not be a big deal.  Nothing was deifinite or planned.    For others, it would vbe very hurtful.   So it just depends.

But there is something there.  I don't know what it is, but it triggered some bad feelings in you.   Maybe you can trace it back to its root.

Plucky

[Marta]

Selkie, I DONT think you are overreacting. In fact this is something you've mentioned before in your other threads too, about friends standing you up at last minute etc. It is a BIG deal, its about how others treat you. Hang in there and you'll find answers. Hugs, Marta

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Selkie hon

You say in your first post that your counsellor only hinted at this.... maybe she was just encouraging you to think about it and think what is healthy.

I feel you are strong enough hon not to go into hermit mode and back away, to be alone.  One thing I thought of is that are there any helpful groups in your area, to maybe join a group with people who have gone through a smiliar type of thing, or is there something that you really enjoy doing and join a class for one night a week, just for a couple of hours a week?

I have an N-ish friend who I used to houseshare with about 5 years ago now.  Since looking into this I can see now that he's not a brilliant friend, however his heart is in the right place and he does do nice things.... but also brings the conversation round to himself most of the time, is clumsby (when he came to help us move house, he was putting our dining table together and screwed through the top of it), that kind of thing.  However like I said, he is a nice guy.... it's just him.  I also know that I don't put the effort into that friendship that I do the others, so it doesn't affect my boundaries if you know what I mean and I don't feel angry.

So maybe, as well, put the effort into the friendships that you feel are worth it, the effort into the friends who you feel comfortable with, who you enjoy their company.  It's not necessarily the quantity of friends, but the quality of the friends you do have.

I feel you're doing well hon.... keep talking and posting.

H&H xx

[Chicken]

Hi All,

Thank you for your support and replies.

I am so horribly confused about all of this. 

I went to my counsellor because I was having problems with my relationships... 
As some of you remember, I was in a very abusive relationship which caused me a great deal of pain and led me to this board and then as I got talking to you all and discovering the reasons behind this, I thought it would be good to go to see a counsellor.  I ditched my abusive boyfriend and got rid of an Nmale-friend out of my life because of the support I was receiving here and at my counselling sessions.  I can safely say there are NO N's in my immediate Life.

I have never ever ever had problems with my female friends.  I have felt they were a Godsend as they have always been there for me.  I know if I went to them and explained how I was feeling about this, they would totally accomodate me and give me loads of love and understanding.  I was thinking to myself last night that I wouldn't approach them about it because:

1.  My view is a bit distorted, don't want to approach them unless I am 100% sure about what exactly is going on, and Gail, I think you may be right when you say that it wasn't a concrete plan.  I think what's happening may be perfectly normal.  This friend is reliable. 
2.  I don't want to have my needs met, surely if I wanted my needs met, then all I would have to do is approach my friends about my sensitivies and they would accomodate them.  So there is something there perhaps...
3.  I may be imagining this and expecting it to happen just because my counsellor hinted at it. 

I am not sure what I think anymore as i thought my childhood was a happy one until I realised that it wasn't... 
It's hard to believe in things anymore as I am finding out that those situations I thought were normal weren't, who is to say my friendships aren't going to be tarred with the same brush?
It's a scary time.

Plucky, You are telling me to think for myself, and I know ultimately, this is what I should be doing, but I can't trust my judgement at the moment, it's let me down before in many many ways so I don't want to trust my self at the moment, it's too much of a risk.  I feel like I need someone to tell me what's healthy or what's not!  ...or maybe someone to help me see it for myself.  I don't know what's what anymore!!  ...and yes, there is something in all of this, I don't know what, but there's something very uncomfortable lurking in the shadows!  I can feel it.

As for my counsellor, I think as I was trying to figure out things I may have said things that provoked her to think I was keeping my friends at a distance.  I kind of remember what I said and I don't think what I said was right now that I think back on it.  I will bring this up at my next session and get it all sorted out.

Mum:  I am aware of how counsellor's can be controlling and opinionated, and how sometimes they can abuse their power.  I am aware of this because of the horror stories i have read on this board and because of this, I have my radars out BIGTIME.  In all fairness, I did say something, which led to my counsellor saying "Do you think you keep your friends at a distance to avoid this?"  or whatever.  If there is something that bothers me about her, is that she will drop a bombshell (or maybe I react to it as if it was) and not follow it up with anything.  I leave her office with no closure on the subject, having no idea how to handle it etc...  I don't think she realises that I react in such a way though.  She may say something like that in passing, and most people wouldn't bat an eyelid, but I am blown open by it, exposed and feeling extremely vulnerable.  This simple comment has affected me greatly.  I didn't tell her I am isolating myself.  I didn't tell her about my new found anxieties surrounding my friendships.  I will definately address these at my next appointment

H&H Thank you for your support,
I have joined a local club, which I will attend for the first time in a couple of weeks.  I do get out of the house a lot as I work 45+ hours a week.  I don't want to lose my friendships, I feel like I am going to ruin them with my antics!  I do have some sort of problem with intimacy though, as I do keep myself at bay.  I know there is nothing wrong with being introverted.  I am an EXTREME extrovert at times but then I go through introverted periods.  I enjoy both times but I crave closeness. 

Marta I know I have mentioned it in previous posts, but part of me feels like I want it to happen.  That one friend did let me down.  What I failed to mention is that her phone broke during her flakiness, and she is a bit of a party animal sometimes too, everything happened at once, she apologised to me and has made attempts to meet up with me since.  Sometimes I wonder if I want to be let down...  Am I wanting to be the victim so I don't have to commit?  Oh Jesus, it's all too confusing...
I'm going to leave the dust settle on this one before I try to see it for what it is...

I hope I haven't baffled anyone into boredom...

I am so complex

[CeeMee]

Hi Selkie,

Just wanted to share with you something from my own experience which is similar to what you are going through.  A few years ago while in therapy, I was talking with my therapist about my friends (I had friends back then).  After several sessions, it became clear to me that one thing that my friends had in common was that they all had problems and liked to confide in me.  In fact, I could rarely ever get a word in edgewise when with them.  None of them knew ME and I knew from their comments that if they did stop for one minute to know who I was, it would not sit comfortably with them.  I listened, and listened and listened.  Till one day my therapist asked me, why do you keep them as friends?  I couldn't really answer that.  The only benefit I could see from it was having someone to hang out with now and then.   So as a test, one day I was on the phone with a friend that I had for about 7 years.   I turned the tables on her and started talking about myself.  I started talking about how I was feeling and what I was doing.  Well let me just say that the relationship ended shortly thereafter.  In fact, I dumped all my friends like that shortly thereafter, and to be honest, I don't miss them.  They were draining me.   I am ready and eager to now start making new relationships with women but not at the expense of censoring myself any more.  I'm striving for "healthy"   now.

Of course, this has meant many lonely nights, but I have you guys to keep me company now and frankly, I've gotten more out of hearing your stories and feedback than I ever got from any of those women.

When you say you are so complex Selkie, I know exactly what you mean.  At times I think myself into utter confusion.  But then when I read posts like yours, I realize that I am not alone.  Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying that my  situation is your situation too and that you should dump your friends, but reexamining these relationships could be a good thing.  That could be what the therapist was trying to say.

Are the relationships reciprocal?
Do they know you and your complexity and accept it?
Do you truly enjoy being with them?

One thing I don't lack is an ABUNDANCE of acquaintances.  That is how I categorize all those people who don't meet the aforementioned criteria.  Unfortunately I don't have anyone in the friend category at the moment, but I'm working through that trying to find out (like you) what are the dynamics involved.  Am I pushing people away uneccessarily?  After much discussion on another thread that I started (coincidentally) on a similar topic, I am finding answers. 

It seems to me you are definitely on the right course.  You are questioning everything, even your therapist.  Best of luck Selkie.  If we were neighbors, I'm sure we'd be friends. 

CeeMee

[longtire]

I have never ever ever had problems with my female friends.  I have felt they were a Godsend as they have always been there for me.  I know if I went to them and explained how I was feeling about this, they would totally accommodate me and give me loads of love and understanding.  I was thinking to myself last night that I wouldn't approach them about it because:

1.  My view is a bit distorted, don't want to approach them unless I am 100% sure about what exactly is going on, and Gail, I think you may be right when you say that it wasn't a concrete plan.  I think what's happening may be perfectly normal.  This friend is reliable. 
2.  I don't want to have my needs met, surely if I wanted my needs met, then all I would have to do is approach my friends about my sensitivies and they would accommodate them.  So there is something there perhaps...
3.  I may be imagining this and expecting it to happen just because my counsellor hinted at it.

Selkie, it sounds like you are ambivalent about this.  On the one hand you say you would get the loving support you need if you talked about this with your friends, but say that you won't talk with them and doubt and blame yourself for your strong feelings about this issue.  (Boy, is this familiar to me. )  Can you acknowledge and love all your feelings, on both sides of the issue?  No matter how little sense it may make to you right now?  Tough stuff, for sure.

If there is something that bothers me about her, is that she will drop a bombshell (or maybe I react to it as if it was) and not follow it up with anything.  I leave her office with no closure on the subject, having no idea how to handle it etc...  I don't think she realises that I react in such a way though.  She may say something like that in passing, and most people wouldn't bat an eyelid, but I am blown open by it, exposed and feeling extremely vulnerable.  This simple comment has affected me greatly.  I didn't tell her I am isolating myself.  I didn't tell her about my new found anxieties surrounding my friendships.  I will definitely address these at my next appointment

I think it would be a very good idea to tell your counsellor about the things she says that have such a strong impact on you.  She may just not realize how strongly what she says affects you.  She may not know you well enough yet and you would be doing her a favor by telling her this about yourself.

H&H Thank you for your support,
I have joined a local club, which I will attend for the first time in a couple of weeks.  I do get out of the house a lot as I work 45+ hours a week.  I don't want to lose my friendships, I feel like I am going to ruin them with my antics!  I do have some sort of problem with intimacy though, as I do keep myself at bay.  I know there is nothing wrong with being introverted.  I am an EXTREME extrovert at times but then I go through introverted periods.  I enjoy both times but I crave closeness.

Selkie, I am an Introvert through and through and know that I still *need* people.  I get out a fair amount, but I am struggling with how to have a relationship go from acquaintance to friend to intimate confidant.  For me, the intimacy is being held back by my own ambivalence between fear of abandonment and fear of injury.  If I figure this conflict out, I'll be sure to let you know.

I am so complex

Yes, you are!

[Plucky]

Hi Selkie,
Even though we on the board are willing to support you and in your corner, no one can really tell how things are for you.  Only you can.  If you are not used to trusting yourself, you have to start somewhere.   

Somewhere in you the truth is there.  The key to what is bothering you.  I could respond a million different ways and not touch on your truth.  Only mine, and where yours and mine intersect.

It sounds like you think you can trust your friends but don't want to put it to the acid test.  How about just come clean with one of them, the mild version.  Say that this happened and you're not sure if it should bother you.  Is that possible?

Anyway, just take it slow and listen to your inner voice.  I think it is telling you something.  There is no rush about this, right?   If you need to dump a friend, you can do that next year also, no?
Plucky