Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > What Helps?

Calyx recovery

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NickySkye:
Dear Acapella,
it's lovely to write with you again. I love the way you write! :)
I got discouraged when I didn't hear from you for a while, thought you wouldn't come back again. So glad you responded.

I felt hurt that somebody came in this area just to make fun of the length of our posts. :(
Bet they wouldn't like it if I went to where they were sharing their core vulnerability and "joked" about their posts.

 

--- Quote ---In my childhood I was rejected in many ways, isolated which has brought its own variety of struggle & ALSO I have often considered how hard it would have been to break free had some wackos "accepted" me, had extended use for me. It takes a village to raise a child and to bury one.  I imagine you have a wealth of intimate knowledge about "individuation" amidst "belonging".
--- End quote ---



Well no, actually, I don't really. I started running away at 13 and by 15, after 3 years of homelessness, left for Europe, then India. I lost my sense of belonging at home altogether. I lost my history and floated in the warm amber of India for a decade. It was a lovely place for me. I truly love India, always will, flaws and all.

I decided in 1984 to break with the momster and it made more sense as the years passed. But the internal shackles still kept me imprisoned until I studied the whole N thing.

On returning to America I started going to ACOA meetings in 1986. What bliss! I loved those meetings! What a lovely and deep relief they were! It wasn't till January 17 2000 that I read Sam's writing and began getting out of the external and internal enmeshments I'd always been in and never understood with Ns.

Maybe because I wasn't able to better individuate in the presence of the momster that I needed to make a permanent break in adulthood.

 

I said:" Her little girl grew up to become an artist mimicking Joseph's style of making collages in boxes, which I have also been tempted to do. It's a strange and disturbing thing to talk about."  



--- Quote ---Do you feel she got any relief? Was her mimicking done as if hypnotized or in defiance? Or? I am wondering if some form of that and your temptation could be an instinctual move towards something healing - going right to the place you fear most to reclaim your independence? Sounds to me that if you made a dark piece of art that you could do so without using some inncent human prop and that because of your having a sense of lightness as well you could leave the peice rather than move into it for ever as did that man and your momster. Perahps that would be a way of facing the fear, reclaiming your own darkside and really feel that it will not consume you this time as it is YOURS to hold and release as you see fit? Perhaps a piece with the life-sized porcelain doll breaking free?
--- End quote ---





WOW Acapella! Reading that was a huge revelation for me. That was deep. Thank you.
I think my childhood friend and I both saw the magic and beauty in Joseh's art, as many people do. But we had both been violated by him and his art. So I think she may have been trying to reclaim her idealised self, her magic child-self through the art, almost what Joseph saw in her?
Joseph was a gateway to me for enjoying symbols, delicate, antiquated mysteries. He awakened my sense of the mysterious but simultaneously corrupted it. I had nowhere to go with this inner conflict, except that in enjoying  Victorian memorabilia or antique curiosities I felt I was betraying myself, snuggling up to the pedophile and smiling. I hated it that I was drawn to these esthetic pleasures and that the person who drew me to them was a violator. Any art has felt somewhat self-injuring after that but I love art too!!! So painful!

Yes, I need to do some healing art, heal those complex wounds, access the pain, feel it and go through it.

Thank you for your recovery challenge and insight, showing me a way to heal this important part of myself. That was a knot for me I couldn't untangle on my own. Thank you.





--- Quote ---I am glad you have confronted some of these people. I know that part of my struggle since graduation to being better able to confront people (long way to go on that one still) is to then accept the distance between us, the rejection or rather the lack of acceptance - this struggle manifests in me also as a sort of naieve disbelief in their not making the and so my not getting a connection, social validation.
--- End quote ---


Sam calls it the malignant optimism of the abused, looking for love and acceptance FROM the N. It can be, imo, compulsive. Freud called it a repetition compulsion.

Cutting out the tumor of the N, facing being orphaned, deeply, is one of the main tasks I believe of all adult children of Ns,


--- Quote ---I like your eloquent contrasts: Quote:
quivering sensitivity, suffering, shadow of wounded subtext  
followed by Quote:
soaking in the slow heaven of a song
. and spray candy.  The image of a woman in the second half of her century (aka over the 50 hill) swaying blissfully to sunshine on my shoulders with candy blue lips a dark roots in a drug store isle that is priceless!
--- End quote ---



OMG I didn't see really HOW silly I was!!! I mean blue lips was silly but now I got a real picture. LOL!!!!


Yes, I got that wonderful, useful phrase "acknowledged vulnerability" from the SAVED website. I think that is such a cool website!






--- Quote ---Sounds great and I have am working to be more focused...avoid distraction too as you noted. I think that will be a wonderful thread and I am not going to be allocating time for now to creating new threads.
--- End quote ---


Good for you Acapella! Congratulatins on working on being less distracted. Good one! I'll start a Music thread and if something good comes along at least there is a place to pop it in.



--- Quote ---Good exercise in not being a perfectionist.
--- End quote ---


Yup, I think all ACONs and NCo need practics in accepting progress not perfection.


 


--- Quote --- I find this is a great place to notice my feelings and especially reactions while interacting with others at a pace slower (yet only slightly less emabarassing sometimes) and therefore easier to pay attention to than in real time.
--- End quote ---




Yes, this is  quiet place but good too. I'm glad you're here. :)




--- Quote ---Caretaking is a GOOD thing and i even believe the catch phrase "co-dependent" has along with the intended disfunction caught in its broadly cast net some vital interdependency.
--- End quote ---



Ah my definition of caretaking is:
something done for little kids by their parents or any adult taking care of a child
any adult taking care of an invalid or elderly person

Caretaking, means, imo, taking care of a person as if they cannot take care of themselves fully, with adult capabilities.

When a person who was abused as a child enters into adult relationships, having been trained to be a parent to their parents, this adult-child will tend to want to treat others like a child and pick people who want to have a surrogate mommy.

What happens is that this adult-child abandons their true self in caretaking others because they haven't been loved well enough by healthy parents. They put their attention too much OUT THERE and not enough balance internally.

This suits an N just fine because they need to be constantly, falsely mirrored and cannot exist without endless attention.

Caretaking means doing nice things but self-abandoning in the process, which ends up sickening to the person doing the caretaking to another in a supposed adult-to-adult relationship.

Caring, in contract, allows individuation AND connection AND interdependence. It's more balanced.

Them thar's my 2 cents.
 




--- Quote ---For now I will say that too little connection is what I believe has led me to a perilous sort of dependence.
--- End quote ---




Yes, that makes sense to me. I'm sorry dear Acapella that you were put through so much suffering and that you had to survive suffering like that.


 
--- Quote ---I've experienced imbalance in both directions
- some "friendships" seeming to require I be the only one vulnerable enough to express sadness, fear, imperfections etc. (not directly expressed need for nurturing and yet at least a hint, a sign of neediness) and yet the quality of response is sabotaged by my not asking for nurturance and their not being vulnerable enough to admit having any problems nor needing nurturing too - which also means they (neither of us really) are not intimately familiar enough with nurturing to give quality nurturing anyway though they may see themselves as a caretaker. Perhaps that is a sort of cycle of roles that can't move forward. STUCKNESS.l Also, I've heard good parenting described as giving children "roots and wings". So some nurturing may be imbalanced in one or the other direction. I have a lot to learn and frankly as a species I feel we have a lot to learn about caring for one another properly.
--- End quote ---



I loved what you said above. Yes, learning balance, roots and wings, mutually acknowledged vulnerabilty that feels mutually comfortable.


--- Quote ---Likewise I have had relationships where I am not "allowed" to be vulnerable and weak and needy at all which has in turn compromised my ability to be strong. OH, the ironies! It all has to do with scarcity, roles and vulnerability i believe and yet have not manifested my understanding in balanced, turn taking relationships yet.
--- End quote ---




Yes, I'm on the same page with you there and working on healing.




--- Quote ---I believe too that if socially there is too little nurturing going around then even a healthy amount of need expressed by someone can get dumped on the few who respond - so that IT is TOO much for one yet not TOO much to need. When I spread my need around (share the joy  ) then no one source is so vital..on the other hand concentrating need and exchange in fewer relationships means the quality, customization of care is greater. balance, balance, balance. Ah and I only get one lifetime for all this. YEEESH!
--- End quote ---




wow, That was really helpful to me that you articulated that so well. Yes, it does take learning how to do this, it takes practice.




--- Quote ---Yes, the guitar is in the room with me. Its silent strings stiffly MOCKING my fear all the while!
--- End quote ---




awww. Acapella, that is sooo sad!! C'mon girl. Go and give that guitar a little pat.





--- Quote ---Now if only I were employed!
--- End quote ---


What would you like to do?

love,

Nicky

Acappella:
Hi Nicky,

yes i take a while to reply due to struggles here at the home front with my husband and with my own self and also due to my emerging from that struggle to work (in addition to postin here of course)towards getting outta this situation and into my better life.  And, I still haven't been focusing as much as I aim to.  This thread with you is number one on my posting priority focus list though.
 
I so like conversing with ya  :D and look forward to getting back here asap.  I also joined your calyx3 group as echos_end..well that is my recovery email and yahoo required an email to sign up.

Saw you music thread and am intrigued!

I'll be in touch in the next couple of days.  Going to sleep now as I have to get up at 5:30.   :shock:

NickySkye:
Dear Acappella,
just realised I've been misspelling your name. Sorry.
See you in Calyx3!
love,
Nicky

Acappella:
Hi Nicky and all lurkers,


--- Quote ---How do you feel about your communication Acapella?
--- End quote ---


I pondered this and observed me self and others for a while and have the following results:

1) verbose or terse - either can be an intimacy shield or incubator.  
2) intellectual or emotional - either can be an intimacy shield or incubator.

To the man with only a hammer the whole world is a nail...and to a man with only nails the whole world is a hammer if ya know what i mean.  

So, I agree with you that it is all about working and playing to
--- Quote ---find some healthy balance there
--- End quote ---
[/b]

I so like conversing with you - I like your warm heart combined with your intellect and your seriousness combined with tender sillyness.  I appreciate your strong supportiveness and your willingess to also express vulnerability.  And, I feel no shame WHAT SO EVER in either of our long posts.

And, I have noticed (due in part to our long posts and your excellent questions and observations in them - thank you.) the following about my length of my communication:  
1) it sometimes is over compensation for voicelessness. Though "over" is a sort of exuberance and is a very healing way of feeling out balance so I believe it isn't wrong just a phase. Also, lots of good things have come from people's over compensation so again not a bad/good thing just something to notice.  like your
--- Quote ---Maybe because I wasn't able to better individuate in the presence of the momster that I needed to make a permanent break in adulthood.
--- End quote ---
Finding balance means tilting from one side to other often if not perpetually and feeling the edges there?

(My husband just got his wages garnished for 500$ for taxes he owed from before we met and didn't tell me and so now the prescheduled bills are going to likely cause an avalanche of fees and my credit will likely get scared AGAIN and the class I wanted to take next week for a potential job is out of the question as is a second car and so I am feeling very disconnected and have just posted all day vs. yesterday when i wasn't over compensating for any recent schism at home and posted more in balance with other pursuits.  I may vent elsewhere about this but for now it is just an example of overcompensation as part of healing like one imbalance leading to another like cancer and chemo.  )

2) my lengthy posts can both result from and perpetuate a lack of focus.  It is all good (good enough to me anyway) AND it is all at once as if this is my last chance, like not only am I letting out what was held in for decades but feel I must do so now or never.  

3)It is also as if I am trying to take in the big picutre for fear that if I focus on a specific piece I will look up to find the big picture gone or morphed entirely (result of reality being shifted and spun and dangerous- no stability or safety as a child nor tools for having those as an adult).  Soooooo, I am going to work, espcially in this "what helps" area, on being focused on specific pieces of thrival.  Your posts here have presented a bizzilion  angles to approach it with - thank you![/list:u]
Maybe we are talking about the same elephant here...you describing the ear and I the trunk or whatever?  When you noted
--- Quote ---the feeling of camaraderie I sense in them
--- End quote ---
refering to the shorter posts and when I speak of greater focus.  Communication is a large creature no matter.  :D

4) my lengthy posts also are indicative of my commitment to go the distance to get the depth and breadth necessary for real and lasting change!   :D

In addition to continuing this thread as a place to get more clear on the pieces in general I am going to join you in starting other threads with specific areas of focus. Some I have in mind are:
* a sense of abundance
* employment/work -  I started one about voicelfullness employed along the lines of work and finding emotional thrival there but it was mostly a rant and so I'll start a new one focused on specifics and positives and save the rants (they have not left for good I presume  :? ) for the other side of this forum and for private messages.  
* play
* connection
* alone time
* green flags
* hobbies
* babing the inner child or for those with large families  :wink: children
* trading in nievite for acknowledged vulnerability or something like that...not clear enough on that topic yet.  Look forward to exploring it more with ya.
* learning to spell nievite  :D
* specific music threads (see next paragraph) [/list:u]

I recall  that your very first has a bunch of excellent topics deserving of their very own focus.

Re: Play - I have a book called "Living out Loud" by Keri Smith who believes that
--- Quote ---"play is the most important element indiscovering who you are..will lead you right into your deepest desires."
--- End quote ---
I don't think I agree that it is the most important so much as it is an equal among vital elements but whatever..it is important.  :?: You mentioned a book about play too didn't you in one of your threads here? Would you copy and paste it over to the Play thread or do you mind if I do?

 :?: What if we started some specific music threads like songs that are helpful for speaking up (Tracy Chapman's "say it like it is" comes to mind or "Voices carry" by a woman/group whos name I don't recal)  or songs that have helped me move on such as that particular sting song?  Otherwise these threads do get rather hard to seach through for specifically helpful stuff - you know something that fits the specific help one needs at a particular time?

What do ya think?

Thank you for igniting such a lively focus on what works!

Love, Acappella (any way ya spell it - I is me! :D )

P.S. I am very interested in honest feed back about my communication and how it comes across to you Nicky and anyone here.  

Note: I find compassionate directness the most effective use of time - as for example with CC's post I wasn't clear about the intent of the comment, didn't read any clear intent, so I just focused on the string of laughing emoticons, enjoyed the humor of it and went on my merry way.  Learned zip about my communication and yet did learn more about how to have fun in the face of ambiguity and subtext (?).  No loss there either cause that's a gem though too, eh?

LOL AND LOL Nicky, read ya soon Dear!
CC you still with us?  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D
eyeswideopen  :shock: how are u fairing?

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