Need help with N Parent

[singledad]

My ex wife was diagnosed with NPD.  After several years of emotional (and even sometimes physical) abuse, I finally decided I couldn't live like that anymore. I was able to get out, but now I am seeing the same cycle of abuse happen to our daughter.  She is 6 and doesn't understand the manipulation and hurt.  I don't know how to deal with it.  I don't know what is appropriate to tell a 6 year old.  I feel helpless to do anything to help her and protect her from this harm.  What can I do?

[Plucky]

This sounds horrible and it must be hard to sit by and let things hurt your little one.
Why don't you try to get custody?  Is that unthinkable?  Can you change your life around to save hers?
Plucky

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya... I hear how much you care for your daughter in your post.  As Plucky says, can you try to get custody?  Or can your daughter come and stay with you more?  Without knowing the background it's difficult to advise.

I think the best way to deal with it in the short term is to listen to your daughter, hear what she has to say and how she feels about Mummy.  Though this she can only do in her own time....  Then let her know that it's not her fault, and that Mummy shouldn't speak to her like that.  If she has any questions, answer them honestly but possibly without too much detail which would confuse her.

Take care

H&H xx

[Xenia]

I grew up with a single Nmother who was violent and abusive.  She had physically abused my father too before leaving him.  My experience of this was that nobody ever spoke to me about what went on at home or what it was like for me.  It was kind of an uncomfortable secret that she went nuts every now and then. I think first of all (and as a continuing practice) you need to speak to your daughter as much as possible and find out what it is like from her point of view.  She may be a kid who is trying to look after everyone else's feelings and will bend over backwards to tell you everything is fine as she is scared to rock the boat and cause distress for anyone.  She may not have much experience of expressing her own opinions because she is being trained by your wife to focus on everyone else instead.  But keep at it.  She needs to have a voice in this. Find out what life is like for her, because if you couldn't handle it as an adult, it surely must be difficult for a six year old.

Good luck with this.  She needs to know someone is interested in how she feels and that she is a good girl, even if her mum is horrible to her.  You may benefit from help from a third party i.e. a family counsellor to facilitate the communication between yourself and your daughter.  I grew up without any outsider ever acknowledging my feelings and it would have made a big difference to me to have someone want to know rather than just pretending everything was okay.

[singledad]

I am lucky enough that I see my girl half the time.  We alternate weeks.  So every other week she has some stability and peace.  We talk quite a bit, but I don't want to bad mouth her mother.  Inspite of the way she is treated, she loves her mother.  So I try to say things in a decent manner, but I don't want to be an enablerer.  I don't want her to think that it is okay to be treated this way.

I have given serious thought to seeking custody, but it is such a hard thing to do with a N.  It would be hard, but I will do anything that I can to save my girl.  I recognize that she is in a dangerous situation, but I don't feel that there is anything that I can do.  I know that she is being mentally abused.  I know that she is being emotionally neglected.  I just don't see any way to prove that.

[Xenia]

How about seeking some professional advice as to what is the best way round this matter.  Sounds like you could do with some support with this.  Either a mental health professional to discuss the best ways of supporting your girl emotionally, or a legal person to discuss your custody options?

[miss piggy]

Hello Singledad,

Welcome.  I too am heartened to hear how much you care about your daughter and how you want to help her.  It sounds like you already are in a very powerful way that many of us underestimate: you are listening.  You are actively listening.  This is so important.  Just having permission to say what she needs to say will help your daughter feel stronger and more real. 

There are ways to communicate your support for your daughter without undermining her relationship with her mother.  And that is by allowing your daughter to voice how she is feeling about how things are going at home.  How does she really feel about what's going on?  What are her choices next time x,y,z happens? 

I have also learned the hard way from my daughter that sometimes she just wants me to listen and does NOT want me to get involved because that can make things more complicated.  (I'm not divorced, I'm speaking of her issues with classmates...)  You can encourage her to have friends over (they make wonderful witnesses and/or shields to hold off N behavior, since Ns like to look good for the outside world).  She can ask to be taken to the library for a school project.  Different strategies to get away from places where abuse happens.

You can give her tools to use such as phrases to say to anyone who mistreats or disrespects her (this way you are not targeting her mother). 

Something else I tell my kids is that all families have issues and their classmates have lessons they are struggling with too.  I don't say this to be competitive or to deflect.  I say it so they know they are not inferior or superior, just on the same playing field with everyone else.  Well, she is only six, so I might hold off on that discussion, but my point is all kids need love in order to face the challenges life is going to throw them. 

I hope this helps a little.  Your little girl is very fortunate to have you looking out for her.  Good luck, MP

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya again

Another good way to find out how she is feeling is through art and play....  a picture she draws can speak a thousand words.

She will love her Mum... children will tollerate an unbelievable amount of abuse, and still unconditionally love the parent.  Also, as you are divorced, another important thing to stress, again in an age related way, is that she is in no way responsible for her parents splitting up.  As a child of divorce myself, this is very important as the child will normally blame themselves.

I agree with Xenia about possibly finding out legal advice and advice from mental health services.... and I think MP has provided some great advice too.

Keep posting....

H&H xx

[HeathMcFar]

SingleDad,

You say that your ex-wife has been diagnosed with NPD.  I assume this diagnosis was from a medical professional?  

If so, have you spoken with a lawyer to see if her diagnosis would help you win full custody of your daughter?

-Heather

[Plucky]

I recognize that she is in a dangerous situation, but I don't feel that there is anything that I can do.  I know that she is being mentally abused.  I know that she is being emotionally neglected.  I just don't see any way to prove that.

Hi singledad,
it must be so awful not to feel that you can protect your daughter and also that you know it but cannot prove it.
It will not be easy, but you can do things.  You might succeed very well.    Xenia has given great advice to support her now.  And if you know she is being abused, there is some evidence.  The problem is to make that plain to others.  Whatever is going on that constitutes abuse, you can document what you see, and you can make a safe place for your daughter to tell the truth.

If your wife is an N, she has left a trail.  She probably can fool most of the people most of the time, but there are those out there who can vouch for her sickness.  As you can see on this board, people will flock to help you protect a child.  Not all people, but they are surely out there.

Just don't give up.
Plucky

[singledad]

Thank you all for supportive responses.  It has helped tremendously just knowing that I am not alone in this.  I know that I need to do something.  I'm just trying to get the courage up to call a counselor.  I think the thing that is holding me back right now is my own fear.  Even though I have been divorced for nearly 3 years, I still feel like she is controlling me.  It makes me feel weak and ashamed to say it, but I admit I am still afraid of that woman.  I am afraid of how she will get back at me for doing anything.  I am afraid of what she will do to my daughter to punish her in order to get back at me.  A few months ago, she called daughter's school and falsely accused me of molesting her.  The school investigated and found no signs of abuse.  This is all because she doesn't agree with how I parent.  I can't imagine what she would do if I shamed her by calling a child psychologist or lawyer.

[Plucky]

Yikes this is scary.
Well, the accusation alone is something you should document as abuse on her part.  Why put a child through that? 

As far as being scared of her, I'm scared of her myself.  I don't blame you one bit.  That poor little girl!
But being a loving parent enables you to do things you never thought you would or could.  You can.

Your wife can only hurt you now through your daughter (and maybe money).  And she will use her like a weapon every chance she gets.   Your poor baby!

Normally your wife will not find out if you personally go to a counselor.  If you send your daughter it is a different story, but why not get a doctor to recommend it, or her school, or someone else?  Yes, it will make her foaming mad.  But it will also put some controls on her, to have an objective third party assessing her own parenting.

Good luck and keep talking it out.
Plucky

[Healing&Hopeful]

I really feel for you.  But make that call.... I feel that calling a counsellor will possibly help you gain the strength you need to deal with this situation, as well as possibly giving you some valuable advice to pass onto your daughter.

I was 3 when my parents divorced too.  You are the one who is giving your daughter some normality and stability in her life.

I believe you can do this, you can get through this.

Take care

H&H xx

[Its not Easy]

Singledad,

"Failure is never fatal, Success is never final, your Courage counts for ALL."


There will come a time soon when you will be propelled into action and your fear of your wife's vindictivemness will dissolve under your courage. This will come when your desire to protect is greater that your fear of the consequences.

Its not Easy.

[singledad]

I picked up daughter today after a week with mom.  Usually the first day requires only a little bit of adjustment, but today she was easily upset and frustrated.  She had a melt down at one point, and I had to let her cry it out as I held her.  She has learned that she needs to stuff her feelings with her mom until they explode out sometimes.  Fortunately she only vents when she is with me.  I hate to think what her mom would do if she had a melt down.  I just kept telling her that it is okay and that I understand what she is feeling.  I told her that I know what it feels like when someone makes you feel small and worthless.  She asked me "why does mommy do this?  She yells at me every day.  Why does she yell at me all the time?"  I tried to explain that mommy gets frustrated sometimes and that she has a lot going on and doesn't know how to handle it.  Then I asked her, "If you had the choice, what do you wish you could do?"   I worded it just like that.  I didn't say a choice about what, just a choice.  Her answer, "I wish I could just tell her to just her mouth and stop talking."

To make matters even worse, daughter has a bed wetting problem.  She only has about two dry nights per week.  I know that this is a result of the problems in her life, and that there is nothing that she can do about it.  She just needs to let nature run its course.  Even her doctor said the same.  But mom doesn't hear that.  She assumes that daughter is doing it on purpose.  She calls her a baby and tries to embarrass and intimidate her into changing.  So she was really upset about that tonight too.  This is destroying her self esteem.

The real kicker (and this really tickes me off to hear it) is that my ex is a high school guidance counselor.  Whenever I try to argue in daughter's defense or explain that put downs only make the problem worse, I hear "I'm a mental health professional and I counsel people every day.  I know what I am talking about here."  She is a guidance counselor.  My experience with guidance counselors is helping people pick the right college and schedule of classes.

A friend who works in social work gave me a phone number to call to see about getting some counseling for her.  I have to tell her mother about it, and her mother is going to flip.  But thats I chance I'll have to take.