So sad -- broke off with best friend at work

[clara]

Hi,

Should warn you this is a stupid sob storry, but one that anyone married to a N could probably relate to.

Because I am in a lonely marriage to a self-absorbed, insensitive man, I guess I am vulnerable to getting into the fixes that I do with men.  Looking back, I have a little history of crossing boundaries with men at work -- I don't mean physically, but definitely emotionally.
Well, duh, as my kids would say, because my personal life is so void of affection.

Anyway, Ian was a very special friend. We met over a year ago and ended up talking to each other up to four times a day. Sure, always on the pretext of work to get us started, but the veneer was quite thin. It was clear that we were both lonely in our marriages, and I guess we thought that everything was safe between us, as long as we mentioned our spouses on occassion.

Over the past month, things start looking miserably hopeless (once again) with my marriage, and so N-husband and I go back onto the "going through a separation" merry-go-round, which we have done before but to no avail because of kids and how H threatenss to keep house and the kids.  Plus, I think it would be so awful to go through, I guess I chicken out.

At the same time, Ian starts phoning me more, calling me dear, telling me how much he likes me (Even "jokes" that he loves me), started disclosing very personal information, and told me important things that he had never told anyone before.

So warnig signals go off, because I am starting to really have feelings for Ian at this point, and am fantasizing that perhaps THIS time I can go through with separation from H since I could have Ian to fall back on.

Fortunataly, better judgement takes hold, and I start a talk with Ian, which actually took about three conversations.  My message to Ian was that since I am now going through a separation, he and I better stop our freindship since after all he is a married man and things are no longer as safe between us.

He was crying (as was I) and saying that he will absolutely honor my request, but it may not be necessary to distance ourselves because he doesn't believe in divorce and he really is happier in his marriage than he let on. So mayb, he suggested, we could go back to how things were.

I told him that despite what he now says, I believe that he is lonely in his marriage and I will still harbour unhealthy fantasies toward him that will only hurt me and so it's got to end. From now on at work it will be brief conversations only as absolutely necessary.

Morally I am good with what I have done. I am actually proud of how far I have "grown up" in accepting that people married to N's are driven to do stupid things to have their emotional needs met.

My problem is that I am so sad and lonely without Ian, as I am sure he is without me. I don't have anyone to talk to about this, because it is so bizarre, but thought you caring people would understand.  Ian and I trusted each other and talked about everything together -- our families, our pasts, our desires, as well as everything at work. We trusted each other with secrets. We had everything going that a great friendship would have and yet that neither of us could get in our own marriages.  

But then those darn romantic feelings crept in and ruined everything. And if my husband weren't so godXXX uncaring and N then I wouldn't have needed Ian in the first place. As I write this I am crying. God, I hate how being married to a N can ruin so much of our enjoyment in life.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[Alan]

I hope i'm not stepping on toes or over a line.  Just bec. your N husband is threatening taking the kids and the house doesn't mean he can do it.

Talk to an attorney or some sort of women's center in regards to your situation. Some attys will have a free initial consultation.

I'm only guessing here, but maybe it's his threats that are pushing your buttons.  He can do whatever he wants but until you're served papers, the threats are empty, just like all Ns are.

[Karin]

Clara, Clara, Clara,
I can relate to you because I also felt emotionally deprived (of course!) while my N was still around, but please don't jump out of the frying pan into the fire! For goodness sake, tidy up your unfinished business first before you start looking at someone else, simply because you'll probably end up in the same pickle (with another N that is!). This guy Ian might be great but you're hardly in a position to judge right now. Alan's right, find out the facts for yourself concerning your rights. I'm getting all sorts of threats at the moment re. money, property etc. The only one I'm listening to is my lawyer. Get the facts you need and make sure you know where you stand.
I found that as soon as I started to stand up for myself, I no longer felt any need to have someone else to lean on, (not that there was anyone else, but I wished that there was). I would like to have someone else eventually but not yet.
Take care.

[clara]

Thanks Alan and Karin.  

Alan you are not stepping on toes at all. I appreciate your logical and caring advice in the wake of this utter turmoil.  I guess when H says that he will do these things, I just can't beleive what I am hearing. Ane yet a part of me beleives it very much because he is very well connected with the best lawyers and his whole entire life seems to be to "play to win." (He actually admitted that in our marriage therapy, but it was mainly to boast!!).  Anyway, our therapy has now officially turned the corner and will be focussed from now on on the seperation. This is such unchartered territory for me.

Karin, thank you so much for your honesty. I went to see my own therapist yesterday afternoon (er, a little emergency visit) and he said exactly what you said, almost verbatem.  Forget about Ian right now. And don't be afraid of my feelings of anger and sadness over the loss of my marriage.  Both my own therapist and the marriage therapist see that I am in a position of powerlessnes in this relationship.  God, how N's can cause so much pain in our lives.

Unfortunately Ian left me a voicemail this morning (before I got in) saying that he is sorry for contacting me again, but he just had to say that he would still like to continue with our personal chats, but if I still want out that's OK. Urgh!!!! Thank you Karin, for reminding me that I am in no postion to judge right now. Somehow this gives me permission to not have to "solve this one,"  a pattern that I think started with me long ago as the "caregiver" child in a large and highly dysfunctional family.

I think that the real problem that I got myself in with Ian was becoming so close while things were "safe" between us, not anticipating the fall when things changed. Oh, the complicated (and painful) webs we weave...

[boybig01]

Im sorry......but 2 be absolutely honest.........YOU made a very huge mistake in cheating on ur husband by talkin' to and confiding in another man......The lord looks down on YOU with shame......for you should feel sorry for commiting such sin!!

[Alan]

Take it somewhere else.  Who are you to speak for the "Lord".  There are plenty of others on this site with better, kinder, and more intellegent  words from the Good Book.   If the Lord has a problem with any of us, he can speak to us directly.  Jerk.

[Karin]

Take no notice of 'boybig01'. His name says it all really.

[clara]

Thanks Karin and Alan, for jumping in. No offence taken from big boy's reply. I'm not religious and I don't feel any shame for my realtionship with Ian.  What I do feel intense shame for though is the demise of my marriage (that happened completely independend tof the Ian issue!!).  When I think of the kids, I just feel sick.  In manyways I wish I was religious, because then I would be clearer on what I can and cannot do in life. I might even be able to fool myself into thinking that my marriage was OK.  Well, life sucks when you get yourself hitched to someone you shouldn't have. Your damned if you do (split up) and you're damned if you don't, and I don't mean in a religious sense.

[Acappella]

Hi Clara,

I Should warn you, this is a long post for which I am tempted to apologize for but I wont.   I have been voiceless and isolated for so long that perhaps I am over board now.  For now, this is an improvement for me so I hope you'll bare with me and better yet get something from it too.  I will likely break it up into segments, as it is ridiculously long.    

In short, what I writing about and got clearer about for myself while responding to your post is:  
Isolation vs. Connection
Isolation: how inner critics and our “friends” who place us on a lonely pedestal (we are the only ones who really know them, we are so great that they really, really need us but we are sooo strong and not needy that we can take it etc.) are part of what keeps us cut off and shut in away from the world.   VS
Connection on the other hand: Namely,“friendships” with peers that help us join in the world.  

INNER CRITIC
Ok, I am married to a man with N traits.   And, yes (as Karin said so susinctly...)"Clara, Clara, Clara" oh how I relate.  So, in defense of you and I both (and all associates),  l declare “Clara...yours is not a stupid story!”  If it is then so is mine.    While I too feel stupid and ashamed and scared I am trying to apply compassion to those wounds.  Isn’t that inner critic the narcissist’s ally in the win loose, "play to win" view of relationships? News flash!  At the end of the day, the pawn and the King all go into the same box! Don’t ya just love that one!   No I didn’t make it up.  

CONNECTION
I am inspired too by your trust that there are kind voices here in this forum and you are undaunted by big boy’s dealing with what I imagine is fear with such an offensive attack strategy.  I am inspired too by Karin’s and Alan’s kind and strong support.

Nic’s recent post “news from Nic”, spoke of a recent victory regarding, ”their threats are not followed through with” as Alan noted.  

CONNECTION: why your “stupid” story isn’t stupid to me and why real, vulnerable honest connection saves lives……
Books are great and one can die of thirst reading about water.  (Yes, I made that one up.   And, I like it.   )  This real life, good, bad and the “stupid” communication on this forum is indispensable to me.  

I have heard/read the concept that we must change our minds to change our lives.  “I think therefore I am.”  I believe though that the mind is the servant of the heart (or at least a 50/50 partner).  While the mind can point in a proper, logical, recommended direction it is our whole being that must turn and look, really look and feel and believe, at least a little, the option before we can take it.  My mind can say exactly how a bicycle works.  However, until my behind it planted on the saddle and I am wobbling along down a perilous street I don’t really “know” how to ride a bike.  Moreover, until I feel a reason to ride I can know how a bike works or how one is ridden but not get on one to save my life, so to speak.  My point here is I feel it is our beliefs, which are not only products of thought, that we/I must change in order to change life.  It is our experience we, I must to change in order to have a different life experience.  IRONY! My mind is only part of that process.  Belief is much closer to experience than is thought.  Thoughts just stream by like ticker tape, flat, linear one-dimensional announcements; news flashes to which my heart and nerves reply “Duh!” I “knew” that, now give me something I can feel please!  However, reading about Nic's experience of change and a better alternative I gain a multidimensional feeling of what an alternative might really feel like.  Moreover, reading about the shared place we are in when we are stuck also helps me feel, experience the bridge between here and there.  Anyway, I am rambling and mean to just say thanks for sharing your experiences, all of you, the struggles and the triumphs, “stupid” and “smart”, your stories mean a lot to me.    It is like training wheels for the ride of my life.  

yep, that was just part of my response   .....i'm reining it in....for now.    

[Anonymous]

Hi Clara,
I know this is an old post.   I understand where you're coming from.  I was married to an N for years but didnt' know what he was.  I met a friend and her husband online.  She was distant but her husband told me
she needed a friend.  She said things that really hurt at times but I reasoned things out and her husband would assure me that I just "misunderstood her".  She would only talk to me online or in person... she was "scared" of talking on the phone but she could talk on the phone at work.  To her that was different...  So her husband would
talk to me on the phone.  I got close to both of them.  I put gas in her car.. I shopped for her dad...  Her husband helped my husband work on our house.  I got more and more attached to her husband.  Just talking to him online or on the phone... we only talked about the kids.. or musical instruments (his wife hated them)... He was the big brother I always wanted...  He didn't know how close I was starting to feel to him.  I didn't know either.  Then one day I got an email that we all had to talk... It seems my N husband had tried to get my friend in bed.  We thought we could get past it.  Her husband told my husband to stop emailing her, etc.
She told me she was going to stop....
She told me that after she thought about it she figured once my N left she could cheat on her husband with him. (didnt' work because a couple months later my N got on a plane to go to another woman).  He told me later that he figured my friend would never leave her husband....
My friend (N friend) had told her husband that he needed to change or
she was going to leave him.  He begged her not to leave... even told her that she "could go out and have her fun... but to just come back to him".
At one point she decided she needed to fix her marriage and she refused to talk to me for 3 months... her husband by this time knew how I felt about him and he stopped talking to me too.  Talk about hurt.
Her way of fixing their marriage was to embarrass him as much as possible... had him go from 210 lbs to 145 (the man is 6')...
he got a tattoo with her name in it only to be told he was stupid to get himself branded... it goes on and on....  that's another reason I can't be around them.. I can't stand seeing him like this.  When he's around her he acts like a whipped puppy running around her... funny that's how I acted around her too... I just didnt realize it at the time... my ex N has been gone for 3 years now.  I don't miss him a bit.  He's in prison now so his wife of one year is hurting....
I haven't seen my friends for 2 1/2 years....  except passing in the car..
She tries to reach me online at times... I got 17 emails from bluemountain from her on dec 24,25 and 26.  I guess she couldnt figure out why she didnt get notified that I read them... they were deleted....
It's been awhile ... I still miss her husband... at times I miss her but when I do I go back and read the emails from her... they aren't very nice...
They want to see my kids really bad... her husband especially.... he was like a father to them... she wants to see my kids....my kids hate her.
Their kids and her husband don't understand why we won't come around.. and that hurts too.  I was "aunt" to their kids.  I miss them too....
I want to be married again.. but the man I love is unavailable....
It doesnt make a difference if your a Christian or not....... it still hurts and it's still hard to figure out and deal with...
sorry this is so long.
-robyn

[Nic]

Hi Clara,
I'm sorry about your predicament..indeed the N thing brings all kinds of situations and horrible feelings to life!
I hope you have a good year and that you sort everything out.  I have never been in you situation and I cannot offer any advice, I can only trust that because you are aware that something is wrong and you are ready to investigate it that the answers will come to you as they did and do to us.
The real object of my post is to thank you for being gracious in response to the condemning post from bigboy.
I'm a practicing Christian, a believer if you will..and the Lord has helped and is helping me continually.  In fact i rely on Him from one minute to the next really.  That being said, I have never been a "saint" and I have learned that life will take each and every one of us on a specific journey.  I was guilt-ridden for years and terribly scared of not being worthy, as a result of the abuse suffered in my N family..I thought God didn't love me, I even thought God was telling me to love my abusive and lost parents before I considered even myself.
I know now, that there is no condemnation, that there isn't anything anyone could/can do, even my N parents, that isn't forgiveable by God.  It's between Him and us individually....Judge not is not a suggestion in the Bible it is a prescription.  
I hope you weren't offended in your spirit, because that's what needs healing in all of us here.
Have a splendid and peaceful new year,
blessings, Nic