Author Topic: concept of 'narcissistic supply'  (Read 6451 times)

Hopalong

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2006, 11:26:00 PM »
Write and Marta.
Thank you verrrrrry much.

Jeez. It's confusing to try to be a grownup.

The whole thing of an Nparent is it creates such self-doubt.
Second guessing.
Editing my own head until it aches.
Doubting my own good intentions.
Microscope in my belly button.

Thanks to you guys for helping me breathe.

Sheesh. My thought of self-praise touched off a little chord of shame.
That's what that was. Ick again.

WHERE ARE SELA'S EMOTICONS WHEN I NEED THEM??

 :lol:

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Marta

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2006, 11:30:51 PM »
Quote
The whole thing of an Nparent is it creates such self-doubt.
Second guessing.
Editing my own head until it aches.
Doubting my own good intentions.
Microscope in my belly button.

Each and every one of us has been there, Hop.

Why not conduct an experiment? Stop doubting yourself so much for a month. IN fact, don't second guess yourself at all. For one WHOLE MONTH. See if it makes you any less of a person, if it impairs your functioning in any way (other than with N mom of course.)


Hopalong

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2006, 11:36:03 PM »
I will doggone well try it!
I have been asserting myself in unusual little ways lately...maybe that's a start!

Whoops! I mean, that's a damn good start!

I AM HOPALONG! HEAR ME SQUEAK! I MEAN, HEAR ME ROAR!

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

write

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2006, 12:39:27 AM »
yup, take a whole bloody month off, and we promise to attack and slander you at every opportunity afterwards if you so deserve it!

Perfectionism is good for copy-writers and saints; everyone else can take a breather!

Or a damn good roar for lioness-poets...

bean

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2006, 05:53:37 PM »
I thought I remember reading something like: normal people see themselving taking action, to get somewhere in their dreams and fantasies.  Naricissits feel like they're already there..

Or something like that.  Anybody remember this better, what I'm referring to?

Something clicked when my Mom said this to me one day:
 When have I EVER let you down???  I AM ALWAYS THERE FOR YOU.

I had to stiffle a laugh because I'm pretty sure she was serious.  That's grandiose thinking at its finest.


bean

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2006, 10:55:11 AM »
I found it!  Here's the difference between normal fantasies and a narcissists.  I think this will make you feel better.  I don't think you're being N.

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html#grand

Narcissists are grandiose. They live in an artificial self invented from fantasies of absolute or perfect power, genius, beauty, etc. Normal people's fantasies of themselves, their wishful thinking, take the form of stories -- these stories often come from movies or TV, or from things they've read or that were read to them as children. They involve a plot, heroic activity or great accomplishments or adventure: normal people see themselves in action, however preposterous or even impossible that action may be -- they see themselves doing things that earn them honor, glory, love, riches, fame, and they see these fantasy selves as personal potentials, however tenuous, something they'd do if they didn't have to go to school or go to work, if they had the time and the money.
      As Freud said of narcissists, these people act like they're in love with themselves. And they are in love with an ideal image of themselves -- or they want you to be in love with their pretend self, it's hard to tell just what's going on. Like anyone in love, their attention and energy are drawn to the beloved and away from everyday practicalities. Narcissists' fantasies are static -- they've fallen in love with an image in a mirror or, more accurately, in a pool of water, so that movement causes the image to dissolve into ripples; to see the adored reflection they must remain perfectly still. Narcissists' fantasies are tableaux or scenes, stage sets; narcissists are hung up on a particular picture that they think reflects their true selves (as opposed to the real self -- warts and all). Narcissists don't see themselves doing anything except being adored, and they don't see anyone else doing anything except adoring them. Moreover, they don't see these images as potentials that they may some day be able to live out, if they get lucky or everything goes right: they see these pictures as the real way they want to be seen right now (which is not the same as saying they think these pictures are the way they really are right now, but that is another story to be discussed elsewhere). Sometimes narcissistic fantasies are spectacularly grandiose -- imagining themselves as Jesus or a saint or hero or deity depicted in art -- but just as often the fantasies of narcissists are mediocre and vulgar, concocted from illustrations in popular magazines, sensational novels, comic books even. These artificial self fantasies are also static in time, going back unchanged to early adolescence or even to childhood; the narcissists' self-images don't change with time, so that you will find, for instance, female narcissists clinging to retro styles, still living the picture of the perfect woman of 1945 or 1965 as depicted in The Ladies' Home Journal or Seventeen or Vogue of that era, and male narcissists still hung up on images of comic-book or ripping adventure heroes from their youth. Though narcissists like pictures rather than stories, they like still pictures, not moving ones, so they don't base their fantasies on movies or TV.
     Grandiosity can take various forms -- a narcissistic woman may believe herself to be the very model of perfect womanhood, the standard by which all others are measured, and she will try to force her daughters to be just like her, she will not be able to cope with daughters who are taller or shorter than she is, fatter or thinner, who have bigger or smaller feet, breasts, teeth, who have different favorite colors than hers, etc. Narcissistic men can be infatuated with their own looks, too, (witness John Cheever, for instance; Almost Perfect) but are more likely than women to get hung up on their intelligence or the importance of their work -- doesn't matter what the work is, if he's doing it, by definition it's more important than anything you could possibly do. Narcissists I've known also have odd religious ideas, in particular believing that they are God's special favorites somehow; God loves them, so they are exempted from ordinary rules and obligations: God loves them and wants them to be the way they are, so they can do anything they feel like -- though, note, the narcissist's God has much harsher rules for everyone else, including you. [Many readers have questions about narcissism and religion. Here is an interesting article on the Web: "Narcissism Goes to Church: Encountering Evangelical Worship" by Monte Wilson. "Modern American Christianity is filled with the spirit of narcissism. We are in love with ourselves and evaluate churches, ministers and truth-claims based upon how they make us feel about ourselves. If the church makes me feel wanted, it is a good church. If the minister makes me feel good about myself, he is a terrific guy. If the proffered truth supports my self-esteem, it is, thereby, verified."] [More on grandiosity.]

andromeda

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2006, 08:37:38 PM »
My last Nbf was a very gifted artist. Makes really, really lovely prints of flowers. However, he used to describe it all to me in private as part of some GRANDIOSE fantasty of changing the world. Way beyond the normal pleasure any artist or writer gets from "audience". Many creative professions require audience because that's the nature of it...it only completes the work to share it.

But I've been close to two N artists and two N entrepreneurs...beneath the grandiose fantasies was raging envy of those who HAVE achieved a "big profile"--and lots of contempt. A hidden sneer.

Hopalong, you nailed it.

I'm an artist...yes, the audience is a part of the process: I make something, then I send it out into the world for other people to have relationships with. However, I also work hard to contribute to, and create, communities where artists can grow together...space where creatives can show work and get feedback. I'm a committed art educator. My commitment as an artist is to the artwork.

Its a tricky thing for Ns to disengage their sense of self from their work. N artists cannot deal with constructive criticism - they take it all personally, and make you their personal nemesis. Which is completely unprofessional in terms of the creative career. I've known a few N-artists and they have a really hard time being friends with other artists - they don't like sharing any sort of attention given to the 'creative' person - like there can only be one artist in the room at a time.

The petty jealous BS that's beyond the sort of twingey jealousy that points me towards what I should be working on -- HEALTHY jealousy points me towards figuring out what I want, helps me find my voice. Its something I experience inside myself as part of my waking-up to where I want my career to go. UNHEALTHY jealousy destroys relationships, is the source of poisenous gossip/destructive criticism and other drama.

There is total acknowledgement in the art world that Art CANNOT save the world. Good art touches individual lives deeply. But the idea that one person's art can save or redeem the world? Get over it! If Van Gogh couldn't save the world, no artist can.

The role of art is to help transform our daily lives. The art object is not a substitute for the artist...The worst art is made in the name of personal fame/style/ego.

And, RE the 'hidden sneer' of competition -- guess what: comparing two different paintings by two different artists can be like comparing apples and bicycles. An apple and a bicycle have two completely different functions in this world, and are valued for very different reasons. Just like I value Van Gogh for different reasons than I value Andy Warhol. YOU CAN'T COMPARE THEM!

AAAGH!

end rant.

andromeda
What's madness but nobility of soul at odds with circumstance?
                      --Theodore Roethke "In A Dark Time"

andromeda

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2006, 08:47:00 PM »
Eww. I just wondered if what I just posted about my poetry was an Nspot. (I definitely have them.)

I can't tell when I'm being a voice hog and when I'm being a mini-N and when I'm healthily proud of myself.

I really don't know the difference but I know even asking myself the question makes me squirm.

Hop

Hopalong --  I gotta ask:  Why are you evaluating your behavior in terms of whether or not its narcissistic?

You're an accomplished creative person. You have the right to discuss that, to be who you are. I think the story highlighted the fact that there can't be more than one poet in the house with your mom around. She's not a healthy audience for you. Taking the time to express your success does not a narcissist make.

I think I'm going to start a thread about labeling.

Andromeda
What's madness but nobility of soul at odds with circumstance?
                      --Theodore Roethke "In A Dark Time"

write

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2006, 08:47:49 PM »
There is total acknowledgement in the art world that Art CANNOT save the world. Good art touches individual lives deeply. But the idea that one person's art can save or redeem the world? Get over it! If Van Gogh couldn't save the world, no artist can.

but that is the weakness of your own argument too, or an argument that love can save the world etc etc....it can in a way...but not totally.

The N perspective isn't really about their art but themselves. It is not 'art an save the world' but 'I the ultimate artist can save the world'.

And even if they did- saving the world would not be enough.

It would have to be 'their' world and on 'their' terms. And with appropriate, ie unconditional everlasting recognition.

It could never exist, or last.

N is doomed to failure.


Hopalong

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Re: concept of 'narcissistic supply'
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2006, 10:27:12 PM »
Thanks Bean, Andromeda, Write...
that was dead-on, Andromeda. And Write too.

The sad thing about both N artists I was close to is that they were both very, very gifted. All that melodrama (grandiosity is pretty operatice) was such an unecessary diversion of their vital energy. They would have produced much more and known greater success if they'd been able to tuck their ego away now and then. (But I know what you mean about an occasional spurt of mild jealousy, Andro, that's just motivating.)

I dunno why I'm hypervigilant for my own Nspots.
I just think I'm not done wrestling the N dragon until I have identified, accepted, and dealt with the manifestations of N in my own nature. I don't think they're enormous nor the dominant parts of me...but they're there. Truly. (I talk about myself a LOT, anxious streams of chatter...). And once when I was rejected by an N-bf I was enraged and figured out that I was feeling a BUNCH of entitlement. I can catch myself doing entitlement in small ways too...sometimes I just feel soooooooo special.

I'm not beating myself up for this.(Not this month, hear me roar!) I know I have compassion and empathy and a deep capacity for love. I just find that honesty with myself is important. What I've been working on in recent years has been to love myself with a fraction of the loyalty I've shown to a parade of Ns. It's coming along... it just means accepting that we all got warts, I have warts, some harmless or eccentric, and some are mini Nspots.

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."