Associates of N's

[solayads]

You know, I've been receiving all kinds of phone calls from associates of my former N friends.  Mind you, I have not even attempted to communicate with any of them for months.  But there is always some message on my cell phone or voice mail at home.  I've told these folks - point blank - that I was not returning to their fold and to forget about me.  I am so much more at peace and at ease since I left them.

I've been reading in different posts here that N's keep coming back.  And I am finding this to be just the case.  The N's and their associates seem to believe that when a person walks away from them, they don't REALLY walk away.  Their associates are subjected to the same problems that I was:  being squeezed financially,  public insults, blatant lying, receiving no support or encouragement.  And yet, they can't grasp my reasons for leaving? 

In fact, one of the messages included one person saying "I know you will be back with us".  I'm going to just keep calling you.....it would be nice if you would just visit us." 

Now this was waaaaaaay out of character for the person who left the message.  I have never known this person to be this persistent.

I guess if a person sticks around N's long enough, they began to display the same obsessive behavior like N's, huh?

I read somewhere that these folks are like caricatures.  I understand the caricature concept a little better now --- because their behavior and ridiculous persistence is almost comical if it wasn't so sad.

[solayads]

Marta, the person who left me the message actually is a decent person.  Even though they have complained and become disgruntlled about the same circumstances that I was upset about, their feelings of loyalty made them stay.  Also, a key issue:  she is the guru's cousin. You would never believe it because she doesn't exactly behave the way the main guru behaves.  She seems to have more genuine feelings for other people....unlike him. 

It seems to be a case of blood being thicker than water..... So I guess her reasons for calling me are twofold.  Number one:  her loyalty to her cousin is first and foremost.  Number two:  I believe she really does like me as a person.

My concern is, she is attached to a very poisonous situation.  One that took time for me to unravel myself from because of emotional attachments.  But once I "detoxed" from the emotional part of it and started getting my life back, I can see things from a hindsight perspective.  It still hurts sometimes, but I still got out.......no return ticket here.

[write]

 It still hurts sometimes, but I still got out

I think it's the hardest thing about leaving a toxic situation- the people you leave behind.

I've found this with leaving jobs also a church.

If you stay friends you're still sucked back into hearing about the place/people caused you pain, and there's always that slight of wondering why they can belong there and not you...why things went so horribly wrong etc.

Sometimes I think it easier to turn your back on a whole part of your life and walk away.

[solayads]

Write, you certainly do have a point......remaining friends with people who are a part of a situation that caused me great pain and anxiety is not good for me.  With each day that passes and no contact is made with any of them......I become more distant from the whole situation.  My goal is to be completely distant so that the phone calls won't even phase me.........

The time will come when I will get to a place where I will have to think real hard to remember any of the pain, the faces and the names.

It is easier to walk away.

[mum]

I was told by a mediator, when my exN was out of the room, that leaving an N is the worst F--you they could possibly get.  "NOBODY leaves me....I"M the leaver..." It's all about control. When you make a decision for yourself....the N's can't believe it, can't stand for it, won't let it happen. And they will enlist others to get you back. You cannot save everyone.....it's sad, but everyone gets to learn for themselves.

[solayads]

Thank you, Mum, for that confirmation.....I know I am doing the right thing for myself by not responding to any of these phone calls that I am getting.  I'm not going to feel guilty about not answering them. 

[Hopalong]

Thanks Solyads.
You're setting a good not-guilty example.

(I hope that's contagious.)

 
Hops

[mudpuppy]

Hi guys,

Here's a site which gives an excellent description of what to expect from associates of Ns. The whole site is very good and perceptive.
Just go to the lefthand menu and click on 'What to expect from innocent bystanders'.

http://www.operationdoubles.com/narc/

mud

[miss piggy]

Hello Solyads & all,

Totally agree with what mum said...I would add that Ns also really feel the rejection.  And that they also spend a lot of energy trying to "undo" the consequences of their actions (without admitting they did anything wrong).  If you go back, then nothing happened.  But something changed that wasn't their idea.  And they cannot tolerate that.  You became a thinking person instead of a manipulated object.  My young d just "got through" a similar situation where her group would dump on her and then lure her back.  When she wouldn't come back they were all oh so sweet, like we're so nice you couldn't possibly want to stay away from nice us.  kinda delusional.

MP

[Marta]

.I would add that Ns also really feel the rejection.  And that they also spend a lot of energy trying to "undo" the consequences of their actions (without admitting they did anything wrong).  If you go back, then nothing happened.

MP, excellent observation, especially about trying to undo the damage. I think if you stay away from them long enough though and make it clear that you will not go back, the second stage of the game is scathing attacks.

 I remember someone once told me on this board, sorry I can't remember who it was, that they need you more than you need them. How true that is proving to be.....

[miss piggy]

Hi Marta (and everyone),

the second stage of the game is scathing attacks.

Yes! Wow...like if I punish you enough you'll come back.  really really effective...NOT!  My PSIL engaged in a "scorched earth" campaign around town.  Relentless.  also pursued my H around to confront him on why? why?  H's response: talk to the hand/you are not my responsibility/talk to the hand/talk to the hand...

Maybe we can break it down into stages, feel free to add/edit:

1. hypnosis/bringing you into the fold/indoctrination/seduction
2. permanent committment (marriage, business contract...)
3. devaluing, abuse (fill in your own flavor)
4. crossing the line (like the sex abuse in Cody Posey trial)
5. fixing/accepting
6. victim opens eyes/breakdown of coping mechanisms
7. escape
8. denial/attempts to get you back under control (many techniques: false promises, verbal abuse, stalking, friends, money)
9. separation perceived as permanent by victim, temporary by abuser
10. controls by abuser are successful RETURN TO STEP 3
OR
10. controls by abuser fail
11. victim is "dead" literally or figuratively to abuser, it didn't happen, victim is slandered and disposed of, erased
12. victim is free

I don't know if this includes everything or is really accurate or true.  Feels true.  I think this proves your point, Marta, that they need us more than we need them.  Remember the old saying: with friends like this, who needs enemies?

MP

[solayads]

--the authors of the articles at the website, What Makes Narcissists Tick, kindly point out that this is much more likely to be taken seriously because people simply don't go to these extremes for no reason.  Therefore, it must be really bad. .........  They didn't stop talking to me, they didn't cut out "the Blacksheep".  I rejected them, for all their abuse.  It is a wonderful feeling to be at peace knowing this.  Whatever they say, and however it comes across to others--I know the truth and that is that it was my choice to say no...FINALLY!  For my own sanity.  This was the first step for me in feeling good.  Reclaiming one's sanity does feel good.  No matter what anybody else is saying about you.

Hi Bean:

Excellent, excellent point that I will always remember.  I didn't walk away from these people just because of some simple slight.....it was truly an abusive, painful, hurtful situation where in order to keep my sanity and not totally lose myself --- I had to leave.

I had a very good friend there who also saw what the leaders of the pack were doing to people.  She chose to stay.  She was like a sister to me.  Anyway, she no longer talks to me.  Needless to say, this hurt alot.  I believe that the Pastor fed her some lies about me.  She already knows how little the Pastor cares about her, but I believe she may feel trapped and believes that this group is her "lifeline"?  So every now and then, she would convince herself that he is so loving and caring.  He was always meddling in the relationships and friendships of people.....asking questions like: "did you talk to so and so?...."what did she say" etc.  I would tell him that my conversations and relationships with my friends was NONE OF HIS BUSINESS.  His berating questions baffled and appalled me! 

Funny thing is:  neither he or his wife have friends.  They just have people around them who believe that catering to the two of them will get them to heaven or somewhere......

Now I know why they cannot maintain friendships.......the manipulation is more than any normal person can stand!

In any case, communication between mean and my friend has ended......suddenly.  And I just know deep within me that it is the result of "N" activity.  I didn't think that she would "cave" so easily.

I have since found new friends who have more integrity....especially when it comes to respect for the boundaries of others.  It makes a difference in relationships....

One thing for sure...... my freedom is sweet to me!  It wasn't so easy emotionally to walk away from so many people in one shot, but freedom and sanity are not cheap commodities.

N's.....they really do weave an insidious web in our lives.