Author Topic: Crazy-Making, Literally  (Read 5338 times)

Surrounded as guest

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Crazy-Making, Literally
« on: February 13, 2006, 02:20:16 PM »
OK just a question.  Has anyone had their N insist (almost demand)you tell them how you feel about people in your past who abused you emotionally(parents, siblings), agreed with you that your feelings were justified (over and over), pretending to care.  Said they were your best friend, your biggest supporter......ETC!

But the moment you bring out anything about them THEY do to hurt you, actual rude, dominating, inconsiderate, manipulative, abusive stuff, or try to stand up for yourself, they go ballistic calling YOU crazy and YOU need help.  YOU must have a chemical imbalance because......"booo  hooo---my family did this, or my family did that"  

Over and over again.  Screaming in your face how CRAZY you are.  How insane you are.  How you can't make any decisions in this "condition".  He (husband) won't go anywhere until I get therapy.  Which I am--just started.  The therapist mentioned the Walking on Eggshells book I was reading after ONE session.  H noticed I was reading this book (whenever he will LET me read)  and then starts yelling at me claiming  HE has been walking on eggshells around ME for 15+ years.  This from the guy who has just been writing me "love" notes last week telling me how compassionate  I have always been towards him and he is so grateful for me in his life and ETC.  

(I actually told him to move out---I sent him a text wich was cowardly I know, but I am afraid of his rage so I saw no choice.    He won't go....he just FREAKED out, raced home, busted into the house, chased me into our room, screamed at me for hours in front of the kids and refused to leave.  Just called me crazy and tells me I am not loving enough to him.  (Sorry for being slightly detached to protect myself)  Oh and then says I do things to bother him too, but he just won't say right now.  I beg him and he won't say anything anymore after three hours of SCREAMING at me what a total CRAZY, INSANE, LAZY, MEAN, HORRIBLE person I am and have always been.  There's more, but he won't say.....

And I did my share of yelling too---- in defense.  Told him about utterly rude and awful things he has done as examples of his behavior I am sick of.   He is very upset I would be mad about these things.  Upset I actually had mean thoughts after his behavior and told him so.  Hurt and betrayed and pouting.  I remember what I said during our fight and I meant them.  He claims he can't remember these times and now he can't rememer what he said during our fight and he didn't mean them.  Well, sorry too late.  I am willing to take the heat for what I said.  He isn't.  He brings up what I said to hurt him, but can't seem to remember what he said.  

Then calms down and says he can't remember saying any of the things he said.  He didn't mean them and I should TRUST him to tell him how I feel about my family of origin again. He is my best friend and really cares.   He dragged this stuff out of me in the first place.  He sees me not acting like his little wind-up doll and so he pushes and pushes ans pushes until I break down.  Obviously I can't say anything about him bothering me, so I say something about my family of origin.  

How can he use that stuff against me like that?  Call me crazy?  Tell me he thinks I should not be estranged from my family and friends right now, he doesn't agree with that.  What he doesn't realize is that.....I have to put those issues with them aside because I only have the mental strength and energy to deal with HIM on a daily basis.  I simply try to hold center every day with him in my home.  The slightest flinch in my armour will send him on my case like a magnet.  Like he smells blood.  I feel if I am acting "off" it is to deal with him.  I try to tell him I am warm when I am acting(pretending everything is ok)  and cool when I am trying to detach from his emotional abuse or a seriously hurtful thing he has done.  He can never understand why what he does is hurtful.  He just claims I am too sensitive.  I have to expalin it with specific examples and then he says I can't bring this stuff up from the past.  I don't even want to, but he says WHAT, WHAT do I do?  I can't believe I have to explain common appropriate behavior to him.  Common courtesy towards me and his kids.  

Nope.....no can do.  I am hurting him cause I am not being loving ENOUGH!  I am getting on his case and he is just way too stressd out to handle this right now.  Can't I see that he is stressed out??  Don't I care about him?  I have put my issues aside for 15+ years because I have tried to be there for him.  Tried to love him in sprite of anything and everything.  The chaos in our lives.  Losing homes and cars, and having 6 kids, and his family disfunction problems, financial devastation, self employed, running a business, debt up to our eyeballs and beyond, lawsuits, church obligations, family obligations, pornography addiction, rage issues, ....this STUFF in INSANE.  NOT me.  Not for saying ENOUGH.  Not for telling him I can't have him destroy our lives anymore.  He needs to get out and work like he needs to.  To clean up the messes HE has made.   Know what he says to me???  I haven't done enough.  Never enough.  I run around frazzled and supportive and keep my mouth shut and love him and basically raise our 6 childrenb y myself, and help run the business, and keep the house clean like he likes it, and bring him his meals ,and have sex when, how ,and where he wants it.....  and I have not done enough.  I am being a baby and a nuisance for daring to say anything.  I already know he thinks I don't do any of it WELL enough.  He makes that clear.  

He thinks he can say anything he wants in rage and then just say he doesn't remember or he didn't mean it.  IF I ever say anything to him, I mean it and that is why I try to shut up and deal within myself BEFORE I say awful things...he thinks I am being cold for that.  

He says one thing and does another.  His actions don't match his words.  

He goes to his mom and sisters behind my back and tells them who-knows-what about me. (But insists I talk to no one about HIM)   Everyone in his family gossips behind my back cause of course he has painted me out to be CRAZY! He does nothing.  (He acts like a saint in front of everyone else.) I know this cause they gossip about everyone.  And they all stick together.  They treat their spouses like dirt and then if the spouse reacts in any way, well, then THEY are the NUTJOBS.

 The morning after our fight(Sat), his family calls to tell him that one of the sisters husband tried to commit suicide by overdose the night before.  I am not surprised at all.  He has turned to alcohol and pain killers to cope with her.  But they all sit and have CONFERENCE calls about what a jerk addict HE is.   They all know how blatantly difficult she is, but NO ONE will admit it.  Not even behind her back.  I tried to say it once to my H and he was very protective and offended.  Now I just tell him I want nothing to do with it.  Don't even want to hear about it.  He is one the phone daily with mommy about one thing or another.  She leads him around by the nose.  Talks about everyone, divulges very private info to whoever she wants and then has the gall to hug and play the saint, supportive, angel, funny, kind, loving mom.  Whatever.  I haven't bought her act for years.  Two-faced.  

Anywho.....now I am just ranting.  Sorry about that.  I have to get all this out sometimes.

I started this thread out basically trying to ask this simple question.  If my H is not an N----what IS he?

 Or what am I?  Really, CRAZY??  An N???  Too demanding?  A jerk?  Now he has me spinning chasing my tail trying to figure out where my constant attempts at perfection with him have  come up short?  He won't say.  Maybe I am---I THINK I know better, but........................could he be right?  AM I chemicaly imbalanced? (this idea he gets from his mother)  Now he has me second guessing my every move.  I thought I had every base covered!!!  To keep the peace.  

And now I made up with him to keep the peace since he wouldn't leave.....he says don't worry about it.  He will tell me if I do anything "wrong".  I keep thinking...is this it?   is this it?   is this?  

Is this the peace I need?  If he wants me to be well, then why treat me this way?  Do you call a CRAZY person CRAZY??  Do you NOT be a soft place to fall?  Do you tell them you are too stressed out by other things to deal with them and they need to stop it?  Do you call them names and then scream at them so bad they have to shove you or throw a hand at you to get you out of thier face--and then claim they hit you and it hurt?  (He's got 50+ pounds on me) Do you see they are hurting and then push every button to get them to fall apart and then use it against them?  Do you rip them completely personally apart and then say you love them with all your heart and expect them to say it back?  Heavens I could surely go on, but this is long enough by now.  

Thanks to all for a soft place to fall.  And thanks for letting me know if you think I am crazy too.  I just need feedback I feel is honest.  I feel I can trust you guys for that.

I do know I need to be away from him to sort this stuff out but he wont go.  He is definitely not helping. I don't want a scene in front of the kids.  Again.  


Thanks. thanks thanks thanks.   I am sorry this is long!!!!

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 02:28:11 PM »
Hiya Surrounded

I apologise I haven't had time to read this thoroughly but through reading it a couple questions immediately popped into my head, which you don't have to answer here, but maybe will give you something to think about.

1.  Do you think your crazy?  Your honest feeling in your gut?  What is it telling you?

2.  Why are you with him?  What does he do for you, not everyday things, but emotionally, nurturing, helping you grow?

Take care

H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

Sugarbear

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 03:26:47 PM »
(((Surrounded)))

I feel sick. Really. That this...this PERSON should attack you and make you feel this way is sickening to me.

You are not the bad person in this relationship - he is. He is abusive, controlling and a selfish bully.

He is keeping you off-balance in an attempt to keep you under control and second-guessing yourself, which is exactly what you are doing. It is a classic abuser move to blame YOU for their problems: "I got angry and did xyz because you don't love me enough!"

Unfortunately, he has never had to answer for any of it - his behavior is reinforced by his family, and you have given up your sense of self and so much more trying to make it work.

There isn't going to be any "lightbulb moment" where he will suddenly realize how awful he has been to you, your children and your family unit. There probably isn't anything you can do or say to make him "better". It sounds like he is just getting worse.

I hope your therapy goes well... and you can get some help to kick him to the curb!
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.

Cadbury

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 04:24:26 PM »
I don't have enough time to give your post the justice it deserves, so I will just say that if it makes you feel any better at all: I could have written your post word for word. My (thank God) EXbf did exactly what you just describe. You need to stay strong. You are not crazy. My ex has told a lot of people (his family especially) that I am diagnosed schizophrec, autistic and bi-polar. I am genuinely none of those things. I am not on medication, I am not even depressed. I have been depressed in the past and it was awful, so for him to use all this against me is awful. Your husband is doing the same thing.

For now I am giving you real big hugs... I will come back tomorrow and write more, but you are not crazy he is. Who was the one who chased who, shouting and screaming???

Take care


Hopalong

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 06:29:42 PM »
Surrounded,
Your nerves must be soooo frayed after years of treatment like this.

Your anguish and fury are marks of sanity, imho. It's a weird NON-crazy "craziness" when one reacts to that sort of abuse by acting out oneself.

Those screaming arguments have to be devastating for you. And I can't imagine what they are doing to your children.

You and they deserve a peaceful life...not possible with him.

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I have put my issues aside for 15+ years because I have tried to be there for him.  Tried to love him in sprite of anything and everything.  The chaos in our lives.  Losing homes and cars, and having 6 kids, and his family disfunction problems, financial devastation, self employed, running a business, debt up to our eyeballs and beyond, lawsuits, church obligations, family obligations, pornography addiction, rage issues, ....this STUFF in INSANE.  NOT me.  Not for saying ENOUGH.  Not for telling him I can't have him destroy our lives anymore.  He needs to get out and work like he needs to.  To clean up the messes HE has made.   Know what he says to me???  I haven't done enough.

It IS insane. And you're not. (But you must be exhausted.)

I wish you a way out. Have you any thoughts on what the first steps could be?

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

longtire

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 10:28:07 PM »
Surrounded,
Hang in there.  I don't post much anymore unless a post really pushes my buttons like this one did.  This sounds so much like my wife's behavior.  She knows I am always (ALWAYS!) wrong but can't ever tell me how, and NEVER remembers the horrible things she says and does to me!  I have come to the conclusion that she does this because she believes she HAS TO in order to survive and so little things like my feelings or worth just can't compare to that.  I can tell her what she has done that I don't like, but she is still not able to discuss it because, "that didn't happen."  I basically got to the point where I didn't care whether I was hallucinating everything or not, it is my life and I'm going to live it according to my own experience!  Besides, I finally became convinced that trying to live according to her crazy ways just wouldn't ever work for me.  :shock:

As I re-read your post again, it sends shivers down my spine.  Somewhere there is a playbook and these people all read from it.
Quote from: Surrounded as guest
He thinks he can say (or do--longtire) anything he wants in rage and then just say he doesn't remember or he didn't mean it.
He says one thing and does another.  His actions don't match his words.
I was questioning my decision to leave my marriage until it all came crashing back in when I read your post.  I'm glad I got this wake up call tonight.  I tend to slip into idealistic thinking about my saving this relationship until something reminds me that is codependency talking and I am NOT superman.  I can only work through my own issues, not hers.

Quote from: Surrounded as guest
Or what am I?  Really, CRAZY??  An N???  Too demanding?  A jerk?  Now he has me spinning chasing my tail trying to figure out where my constant attempts at perfection with him have  come up short?  He won't say.  Maybe I am---I THINK I know better, but........................could he be right?  AM I chemicaly imbalanced? (this idea he gets from his mother)  Now he has me second guessing my every move.  I thought I had every base covered!!!  To keep the peace.
He has you right where he wants you, off-balance and easy to control with a nudge here and a criticism there.  It sounds like you are just exhausted, drained, and fed up with dealing with your husband's poor behavior.  Both his behavior and your confusion and reactions to it sound very familiar.

I have come to believe that my wife has Borderline PD (BPD) or something essentially the same.  A lot of the the things you describe about your husband's behavior sound very familiar.  Actually almost everything sounds the same.  Ooh... more chills.

I would add another couple of books to check out:  (Like you have all the energy and time to sit around and read all these books, still...)
"Tears and Healing," Richard 21CP
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship," Patricia Evans
"Codependent No More," Melody Beattie

And a couple of really good websites:
www.tearsandhealing.com
www.drirene.com
www.bpdcentral.com
www.bpdresources.com

Even though you can't see how right now, you are stronger than you can imagine and all the things you think you've lost forever are still right there waiting for you to rediscover them again.  Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more offline.  Oh, and keep ranting and letting off steam as much as you need here!
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Plucky as guest

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2006, 03:23:26 AM »
Hi Surrounded,
I'm so glad you are venting.  Your situation is so toxic, I just have no idea how you cope from day to day.  When you get yourself and your time and your life back, you are going to be dynamite!
 
Your H is crazy.  What a sick man.  But not you.  I cannot say anything more than what others have said.  But I can see that you are somehow staying sane in an insane situation.  Kudos.

Plucky

Surrounded

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2006, 10:59:26 AM »
I just have to login quick here, while I have a sec, to say THANK YOU!!!!!!

You ALL are the BEST ------and your words are heard and appreciated!   I will stay posted when I can.

Have a great day!

movinon

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2006, 02:28:42 PM »
(((((((((((((((((((Surrounded)))))))))))))))))))))))))),

So glad to hear from you again. 

Yes, you do have a chemical imbalance..........OF TESTOSTERONE(the BAD kind guys)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've seen our similarities in previous posts and man do they SUCK!!

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Just called me crazy and tells me I am not loving enough to him. 

We can NEVER love them ENOUGH!

Quote
Now he has me second guessing my every move.  I thought I had every base covered!!!  To keep the peace. 

Yes!!!!!  They are MASTERS at having us second guess ourselves.


Quote
He thinks he can say anything he wants in rage and then just say he doesn't remember or he didn't mean it. Then calms down and says he can't remember saying any of the things he said.

HMMM, sounds VERY familiar... :x

Quote
The slightest flinch in my armour will send him on my case like a magnet.  Like he smells blood.

Ditto.  And he would also smell when my "tanks were full" and come around and suck them dry w/ his neediness



And the BIGGEST ONE:
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so he pushes and pushes ans pushes until I break down

I used to describe mine as a bulldog that wouldn't let go.  He finds a spot, latches on, and shakes and shakes until you are full of blood and he's down to the bone and you say UNCLE!


Hang in there and PLAN, PLAN, PLAN

Movinon
An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.

Surrounded

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2006, 07:07:16 PM »
To answer:  In order I hope.

Healing&Hopeful:

No---I do not in my gut feel I am crazy.  But he would like me to-eh?

And as to what he does for me?  He claims he is nurturing me and really is smothering me-----like Pepe Le Peu(not sure on spelling)----that skunk who won't leave the cat alone.  Icky!!

My T says he is like my personal trainer working those weak muscles, ya I see, but what to do when those muscles are "ripped"?  Or I am just plain tired of the sh!t.

That is what I am trying to iron out.  I have so many lives to consider--so many  angles to try to see.  I just can't seem to make sense of it sometimes.  I am definitely scared of being labeled the "Bit**" by being assertive, but I am slowly coming to grips with that fear too.

Thanks for the questions,  I need help thinking straight sometimes.

Take Care---and Thanks

Surrounded

Surrounded

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2006, 07:18:17 PM »
Sugarbear,

Thanks for your support, your post made me tear up a little.  He is throwing me off balance and I see that.  Everything I try seems to bring out a new tactic from him and when I think I am prepared for him, he brings a new one out of his bag of tricks.

As far as therapy goes, I'm new to that and I don't expect answers from the T, but I talk so much that he hasn't been able to say too much yet I think.  Maybe I oughta shut up and listen.

 I do know that he sees my dilemna of ripping a large family unit apart.  And verifying that I am dealing with an N here.  And how difficult that is and will be. 

I am reading about Malignant Self Love today and getting a little sick because it describes so much of my life! 

The fact that there won't be a lightbulb moment---yeah, I have been thinking that but been in denial about it----that one hit home.  I have always hung on, just hoping I could change him.

Now I just plan for brighter days.  Hopefully sooner than later. 

Thanks so much

Take care

Surrounded 

Surrounded

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2006, 07:28:18 PM »
Cadbury

Thanks for the hugs!!!!!  I can only imagine what is being discussed behind my back with his family.  The sickening two-facedness of it is about more than I can take.  Hug ya when they see ya and they rip you apart behind your back.   OOOOOHHHHHH!!!  Maddening!

Glad you got out of it.   Earlier than me.  Wish I coulda seen it before I made this fine mess for myself.  But how could I???  I married my N mom,  it felt so natural. 

What is making me wake up right now????  Don't know, but I do know, I have to listen to my heart.  And it is saying goodbye to this maddness.  I feel my very health and sanity are on the line.

He likes to point out I have shouted at him a lot lately.  True.  But only when pushed to the limit BY HIM!!!  How do I say that and not sound blaming?  Guess I don't.   He is the perpetrator here, I have only recently pushed his buttons and seen the moster come out in full costume.  Yuck.   
Then he makes sure the kids see him present me with every gift in the Valentines handbook----so they can see how great dad is, and how bananas mom must be.

They know.  I just have to trust they know the truth.
Anyway,   thanks again.....

Take Care

Surrounded

Surrounded

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2006, 07:33:15 PM »
(((((((Hopalong)))))))))
(((((((jacmac)))))))))))
(((((((bean))))))))))))
(((((((longtire)))))))))
(((((((Plucky)))))))))
(((((((movinon))))))))

Thanks so much!

Gotta go for a bit, but I definitely want to respond to you guys.  I'll be back when I can sneak a minute.  Your support is immeasurable.

Take care all

Surrounded 

movinon

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2006, 11:24:30 PM »
Surrounded,

Is your therapist trained in N issues? 

Movinon
An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.

Surrounded

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Re: Crazy-Making, Literally
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2006, 04:24:46 AM »
He has acknowledged that my H seems to be an N.  I have't asked what training he has had on the this disorder other than that. 

As far as these idiot husbands and almost X for you, seems we can never do ENOUGH of anything---can we???

I love your full tank analogy.  He is always claiming I heal him, I am his strength......yeah....you vampire !!!  Stop sucking the life outta me!

Glad to hear your daughter is OK.  From your other posts.  Don't look forward to that part of my struggle to get away from him.  Great to see someone who is showing him who is boss. Good for you!  Keep up the great work!!

Take Care

Surrounded