Author Topic: No contact with my mom...long  (Read 2611 times)

Sugarbear

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No contact with my mom...long
« on: March 02, 2006, 12:41:31 PM »
Brief background: I moved in with my mom in my 20s to go back to school. We ended up developing an unhealthy attachment where we both fell into the parent/child role again, and only after many years did I see how unhealthy it was. Around 4 years ago, I met, dated and married my (wonderful) husband. I moved out of my mother's house, early in my dating, due to my mom's extreme anger and bitterness. I basically gave in to her demands over the course of the next 4 years, until last year. I grew tired of her constant demands, her clinging and whining about "feeling excluded" from my life, her belief that I was responsible for any and all housework/yardwork/errands that she saw fit to have me do, and the last straw - her elective knee surgery where she refused to listen to her doctors and hire outside nursing help for the weeks after her release from the hospital. I was drafted, against my will, to be her caretaker. She told me that I was a cold and heartless person who had no right to feel used, mistreated, etc... because she "needed" me. I finally had somthing snap inside me to realize that she does not think of me as an adult or even as a seperate indivudual...

During some of the arguments over how selfish I was, (for being resentful of having to drop everything in my life to take care of her) she told me that she had obviously put all of her eggs in the wrong basket - refering to the fact that she has always snubbed my sister for not being the kind of person she expected her to be... I was supposed to do whatever she wanted for the rest of my life, but now that I am balking over this treatment, I am the "bad" one and my sister is the "good" one.

~~~~~~

It is now been almost 5 weeks since I have spoken with her. She will not call me unless she HAS to; i.e. she needs me to do something or wants something I might have of hers.

I have heard that she is doing well as my sister is still checking on her long-distance, and she reports that our mother is doing well, losing weight (she was over200 lbs.) due to the physical therapy for her knee, and she is starting to do more things to take care of herself and her house.

I started out feeling extremely guilty, but as the weeks went by, and my sister told me that she was doing okay, I felt... free.

I honestly don't know if I even want her back in my life. A part of me does, the part that misses the good times and the closeness, (yes, there were times that my mother and myself were very close and had fun together) but a larger part of me feels like I just can't go back to the yelling, the nastiness, the feelings of guilt and responsibility I felt whenever she was around. She thinks she is the authority on everything, and she has to know everything.

Our relationship had been one of her being dependant on me to do her chores, her errands, her dirtywork and be her only and best friend. I was her shopping buddy, her restaurant companion, her vacation partner. I was her filter/lightbulb changer, her cat sitter, and her handyman.

I would have loved to have my mother be a part of my life, but it seems like it has to be on her terms, or not at all. Even with me telling her that what she was doing was hurting our relationship, she just pushed that much harder, trying to force me to see that she was in the right, and I was wrong - wrong for feeling the way I felt, wrong for trying to pull away, wrong for shutting her out of the intimate aspects of my life.

I truly don't see her ever understanding how messed up she is, even with her pop psycology background. She always told me what I was thinking why I did what I did and what my motives were for doing it. She was usually wrong, but she was so CERTAIN and sure of herself and her ability to analyze every situation, that there was no way to get through to her that she was wrong. She even said at one point that she knew more than the counselors and there wasn't any point in going.  She is also one of those people who expect other to read their minds - and is constantly passive/agressive.

I've tried to work things out with her - by talking one-on-one, by counseling and by negative reinforcement - nothing worked.
Our last meeting over dinner that I didn't want to go on, I really had decided that I was finished. I was tired of all of the drama, and I wasn't going to play anymore. I stuck to small talk, and did tell her that I was uncomfortable with her paying for me, (as her "gifts" always came with strings attached.) She got really angry and kept pressing to start a fight, and at one point, pulled herself back and asked me just what my boundaries were, so she would know what she was and was not allowed to do. (this was said in a very snotty, offended voice, and I could tell that she was going to argue with me over anything that I said at that point) I kept telling her that I wasn't going to discuss this and continued superficial small talk until the meal was finished.

I have boundaries, but trying to organize them when she demanded them made them fly right out of my head. That, and the fact that anything I had said she would have either denied doing or told me I was wrong.

I figure that I will be pleasant, but reserved if I have to speak to her, but do I have to come up with boundaries? Isn't there a point where you can just say, "No, the time for fixing this is past. I don't want to try to work at this relationship anymore."

I figure that I will be pleasant, but withdrawn if I have to speak to her. I expect us to continue to talk after she gets over her angry-how-dare-she-act-like-that-to-ME attitude, but I don't want a close relationship anymore. What do I do if she tries to be confrontational? I can keep telling her that I am not discussing our relationship, but does that make me a bad person for not wanting to try and work it out?
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.

pennyplant

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Re: No contact with my mom...long
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2006, 02:40:19 PM »
Hi Sugarbear,

This will be short as I think there are people here who know more about these situations and about you.  But I wanted to say that you are NOT a bad person for feeling the way that you do.  You have gone above and beyond what a reasonable mother should expect of her grown daughter.  And yet she seems not very grateful.

About having to spell out what your boundaries are:  this is an unreasonable request for your mother to have made.  It is a big question with a big answer and you were on the spot and no wonder it all flew out of your mind.  Boundaries are somewhat intuitive, anyway, I think.  Different for everyone.  Different boundaries at different times too.  Since yours have been violated so often and for so long, it may take a while to discover some of them yourself!  Perhaps you can reveal them a little at a time as you feel comfortable and at your own pace.

I found that with my sister, no contact for quite a while was the only thing I could handle.  When I was ready, I tried email as the main point of contact rather than the phone.  More control with email.  Could check it when I felt up to it.  Close it up when I had too much.  If she asked something that was out of line, I could take my time formulating an answer.  It gave me time to deal with my anger.  Meantime, she had to face herself once she ran out of people to dump on over the phone.  It's possible she has found friends in her town to be co-dependent with but it doesn't affect my life and they will be responsible for establishing boundaries if it comes to that.

That was one of my experiences with no contact.  I have a couple others that might be pertinent if it comes up on this or other threads.

Sugarbear, you have a right to stand up for yourself with mom even if she is really hollering about it (it will take her awhile to get used to the new order, she may holler a lot).  By stepping back and giving yourself some options with space between the two of you, I think you ARE working things out.  If it can't change, then maybe it can't be anything at all.  You have a right to a chance at your own life.

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

Portia

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Re: No contact with my mom...long
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 10:58:53 AM »
Hi Sugarbear, hang in there!

I just can't go back to the yelling, the nastiness,

This is what she does that you won’t tolerate…..you can’t change her and her actions, but you could walk away if she yells or is nasty?

the feelings of guilt and responsibility

this is what you feel that you don’t like, so maybe you could change how you feel?

From what you’ve said, you know your feelings of guilt and responsibility are not in proportion to what’s actually happened (I don’t think you are actually guilty of doing wrong and you take responsibility for things which are not in your control – but I know that doesn’t change you feeling those feelings).

She thinks she is the authority on everything, and she has to know everything.

Do you mean she has to know your stuff? Or she has to be the know-it-all?
You could just let her be the know-it-all and keep yourself to yourself. Or just be a certain version of yourself with her, keeping some of you reserved for only for safer people….?

I stuck to small talk, and did tell her that I was uncomfortable with her paying for me, (as her "gifts" always came with strings attached.) She got really angry and kept pressing to start a fight,

She got angry because you didn’t want her paying for you? Maybe she took that as some sort of slight on her ability to pay. Maybe she sees herself as very generous and you’re somehow ‘flawing’ that image she has. I’m not saying it’s okay to be like that, but maybe she’s sees your wanting to assert yourself as a direct threat to her?

and at one point, pulled herself back and asked me just what my boundaries were, so she would know what she was and was not allowed to do.

This is perhaps because she’s afraid at this point – she can’t imagine what you might say next, so she’s asking you (in an angry way) and she might well be serious in her question too? She really wants to know?

What do I do if she tries to be confrontational?

Does she manufacture conflicts or is she reacting to some perceived slight from you? If you could work out what her hot buttons are, maybe you could avoid them, or mention them in private and very softly and gently…saying this isn’t about her, it’s a problem you have (taking the ‘problem’ away from her, so she doesn’t have to defend herself)…?

I can keep telling her that I am not discussing our relationship,

What does she want to discuss exactly? With my mother it was that she wanted to  know what she had done wrong to make me so distant….then I realised it was nothing to do with a relationship, it was all about her perception of being a good mother to her daughter…sort of!

but does that make me a bad person for not wanting to try and work it out?

Nope. No-one of this makes you a bad person :D. True! We make choices and those choices have consequences (not bad or good, just consequences) – and we can change our choices all the time.

Maybe you need time to yourself right now and don’t want to see her or talk to her. It doesn’t have to be forever! Maybe you can be the one who is having a problem (or even being a problem!) and you need to be quiet and alone for a while – would she leave you alone if she thought that? She might not like it, but she would have to accept it.

I think for me I couldn’t ‘work it out’ with my mother. I have to work myself out and then I can work out how to have a relationship with her, if I want to. It’s really been up to me to do the hard work, because she doesn’t seem capable or willing (it’s not fair but hey, what is?).

How hard would it be for you to say: i need time to myself, I'm having a rough patch, no sorry you can't help me, I'll let you know when i feel better/well enough to call.....etc..?

It's your life.  :D

Does that make sense to you? Please talk some more if you want to.

Sugarbear

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Re: No contact with my mom...long
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 01:01:19 PM »
PennyPlant - I appreicate being told I'm not a bad person. That is all I hear from her anymore, and I still (how stupid is that?) internalize her opinion even knowing how off-kilter she is.

Good advice - I think that a whole lot of space and distance is necessary for me to detox from my mother. I wish she would use email to contact me, but she is computer illiterate and forgets for months that she even has email access.


Portia - You've given me much to think on!

To answer some of your questions and clarify a few things (for myself mostly, but if anyone else reads this too...)


From what you’ve said, you know your feelings of guilt and responsibility are not in proportion to what’s actually happened (I don’t think you are actually guilty of doing wrong and you take responsibility for things which are not in your control – but I know that doesn’t change you feeling those feelings).

I know that the feelings of guilt and responsibility are out of proportion, but she does her best to make me feel guilty and responsible for her - she is very up front about what I am supposed to be doing... For example, it is my fault that she bought the big house she has (a lie that she has decided is the truth, because I actually told her that it was too large for 2 people and she didn't need that much space) so i should be the one to do all of the work around it, even though I have a home of my own and she refuses to sell hers and downsize to something more managable.

She thinks she is the authority on everything, and she has to know everything.

Do you mean she has to know your stuff? Or she has to be the know-it-all?
You could just let her be the know-it-all and keep yourself to yourself. Or just be a certain version of yourself with her, keeping some of you reserved for only for safer people….?

I mean that she has to know every detail of my life, and if I try to avoid telling her, I get the 3rd degree about why I won't tell her - and the whining about her being excluded from my life. For example, My husband and I have been trying to have a baby for over a year and we are seeing a fertility specialist. My mother demands to know what is "wrong" with me and my DH and wants to know about our sexual history, our doctor's reports and to offer her own diagnoses. I am NOT sharing my sex life with my mother, but when I tell her that, she gets angry and weepy and again I get told that I am a horrible person for "shutting her out".

She also keeps a journal of every little detail about mundane things, attempting to catch me in a lie. If I tell her that I had a doctor's appointment, she wants to know for what, so she can compare my symptoms to past appointments and see if I am lying about the reason for the visit. I've even had her tell me that she KNOWS I'm lying (when I'm not) because I went to doctor "X" back in June for that exact same thing, and you don't need to go to a doctor more than once a year for that... it is soooooo frustrating!!



I stuck to small talk, and did tell her that I was uncomfortable with her paying for me, (as her "gifts" always came with strings attached.) She got really angry and kept pressing to start a fight,

She got angry because you didn’t want her paying for you? Maybe she took that as some sort of slight on her ability to pay. Maybe she sees herself as very generous and you’re somehow ‘flawing’ that image she has. I’m not saying it’s okay to be like that, but maybe she’s sees your wanting to assert yourself as a direct threat to her?

She got angry because she needs to have something to use as a control - her paying for things means I owe her. She gets angry when I don't ask for her help and thinks that I don't need her anymore - this is what she has said to me. I told her that an adult married woman shouldn't have to rely on her mommy to bail her out of things or pay for stuff, and that yes, I don't NEED her - I used to enjoy her company, but she needs to stop mothering me and trying to define herself through that - a benevolent, kind mommy who can swoop in and "save" her stupid, helpless daughters from making mistakes. She LOVES the idea that she is teaching us (my sister and myself) to "make better choices" by using money and material things as bait. She routinely offers money/things to myself and my sister with conditions - and even has offered my sister thousands of dollars to get divorced from her husband - because our mother doesn't like him. (he is a bum, but my sister loves him, they seem to be happy together and frankly that is all that counts)

and at one point, pulled herself back and asked me just what my boundaries were, so she would know what she was and was not allowed to do.

This is perhaps because she’s afraid at this point – she can’t imagine what you might say next, so she’s asking you (in an angry way) and she might well be serious in her question too? She really wants to know?

She was asking because a few days earlier, I had told her that she needed to respect me, and that I needed to stand up to her for violating my boundaries in reference to the fact that I had to cancel plans with my husband (during a very hard time for both of us, and we NEEDED time together to try to keep our relationship strong). I told her that if she had planned better and INCLUDED ME IN THE PLANNING, then I would not have needed to cancel my plans, and that in the future, I would be telling her "no" if she demanded my time when i had already made previous plans (excepting emergencies). She called me selfish and cold, and made fun of me for having "boundaries" and how stupid I sounded.

She was bringing up the boundary issue, because she wanted to rip me apart again. She was going to systematically tear them apart and tell me how stupid I was, since that is what she has done in the past. She does use anger to cover up for fear and other emotions, but she KNOWS she does this.


What do I do if she tries to be confrontational?

Does she manufacture conflicts or is she reacting to some perceived slight from you? If you could work out what her hot buttons are, maybe you could avoid them, or mention them in private and very softly and gently…saying this isn’t about her, it’s a problem you have (taking the ‘problem’ away from her, so she doesn’t have to defend herself)…?

She manufactures conflicts AND reacts to perceived slights! She expects me to put her first in my life. That is the "hot button." She can do the lip service about how she knows I am married and an adult, but her ACTIONS show that she expects to be told everything she wants to know, and her wants and needs come before any of mine or my husband's. If I don't follow that rule IN EVERY WAY, then I am in trouble with her. 

I can keep telling her that I am not discussing our relationship,

What does she want to discuss exactly? With my mother it was that she wanted to know what she had done wrong to make me so distant….then I realised it was nothing to do with a relationship, it was all about her perception of being a good mother to her daughter…sort of!

She wants to discuss how I am wrong and she is right. She tries to start out with looking like she is interested in seeing my side, but she can not see or acknowledge that she might be causing most of the problems in our relationship because of her controlling nature. She wants more than I am willing or comfortable to give, and blames me for not giving her more, instead of looking at herself and seeing why she needs to depend so much on me for entertainment/social contact/fulfillment/work.

My mom called me yesterday to get some lawn equipment of hers that I had. Her message was very formal and she actually referred to herself as "first name" and not mom - I guess I'm not her daughter anymore? I was pleasant but uninformative and took her things by early this morning on my way to work, so I wouldn't have to see her.

I have tried asking her to back off, telling her that her crying and anger and constant demands for physical and emotional closeness was pushing me away and damaging our relationship, but nothing worked. I think at this point all I can do is to disengage and be as if she were a stranger to me. Polite, but no emotions.

I have felt better in these last few weeks without her interference that I have in the last year...
:)
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.

pennyplant

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Re: No contact with my mom...long
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 09:56:54 PM »
Hi Sugarbear,

After reading the detailed examples you have given, it is very clear that your mom has just put you under a microscope without letup.  This is an amazing amount of pressure for you to have been under all these years.  It might be awhile before you will WANT to approach her again, now that you have had a decent amount of time away from it.  Now you know how much better life can be.

With my sister it took quite a while.  A few years actually to find some kind of balanced way of talking with each other again.  Many, many months of me dodging her phone calls.  Then quite some time of trying out email.  Now it is okay.  There is enough contact to know what is going on with each other.  She no longer overwhelms me with it being all about her and her having problems with no end, no solution.  A couple of in-person visits where I felt like when I had enough, I'd just go to bed without it having to be some kind of insult.

It all takes time.  No guarantees, but at least now there is no going back.  I bet it will never be as bad as it was!

Penny P
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

Hopalong

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Re: No contact with my mom...long
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 10:52:20 PM »
Ohh Sugarbear...

Breathe, and please keep breathing.

She does not own the air.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Sugarbear

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Re: No contact with my mom...long
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2006, 01:57:15 PM »
Thanks, everyone!

I really apprieciate the chance to vent - and the chance to heal.

boy sugarbear,
This completely reminds me of my Mom and my sister. I guess I was the lucky one, since I was never Mom's favorite, ie, best friend. ick. I can see why you're where you're at. It must have been stifling for you all those years. How did you finally recognize it?

It took me years to wake up to how my mother really was. I started seeing a glimmer after I started dating the man that later became my husband. She acted horribly - jealous, angry and went through my personal things looking for "evidence" of my transgressions - this is when I was a 28 year old woman who paid rent to her. She tried to break up my relationship by telling me that something was wrong with my DH.

I realized that all of that was the terror and fear of being alone and that she wasn't handling my marriage well, so I thought if I tried to include her and do more for her, that she would not be so clingy and bitter. Over the last 4 years, I did housework, errands, repairs and invited her to dinners, bar-b-ques, outings with my husband and shopping expeditions at least once a week. It wasn't enough for her, and she got used to the idea of the more she demanded, the more I would try to give.

Until I reached a turning point. I love my husband very much, but I felt like I was neglecting him and our marriage. We talked about having a baby, and the bleak thought hit me - where would I find the time to take care of a baby if I can't even find enough time to be there for my husband? My mother was sucking me dry, and I started putting my foot down about what I was and was not willing to put up with from her. She grew angry and abusive and called me names. She told me I was a horrible person and didn't care if I ever could have a baby.

I finally had the defining moment this past January when she drafted me as her caretaker for her knee surgery. She refused to discuss beforehand any caregiver arrangements, and grew angry and abusive with me when i tried to bring it up. She told me that she would crawl on the floor before asking me for my help. It was a quick change for her when she came home and realized that she couldn't do anything, and basically refused to call in any help, she told me that I was there, so I should just pitch in and do everything for her. I realized then that she didn't see me as a separate person with a life, feelings, etc... and that is where I am today.





sugarbear,
my Mom does this too! she keeps track of everyone's medical problems. She knows what's going on with at least 30 people's health in our family (the parts she doesn't know, she deduces by fabrication ie, makes up). I'm not sure about the journal, but since she writes everything else down I wouldn't be surprised if she had one of those too. She doesn't typically call people on stuff (ie, you said you already saw the Dr. about your thyroid, and now you say you have to go back? weird), ...but she does know everything and is always harping on us about what we should be keeping up on (could be mistaken for caring, I guess). It is rude and an invasion of boundaries. She also tells all her friends all her kid's and their kids and their spouse medical "stuff." No wonder no one wants to tell her anything, it may as well be broadcast over the loudspeaker across hundreds of miles. I used to think my Mom was just insensitive until I realized she is probably N.

Every little tidbit of info she's gleaned about me over the years, has seemed to find a way into a story or form of entertainment solely for her purpose. It is a major invasion of me. I cannot share with her, I have to protect myself. My private life is my private life, yet she's always prying into it.

Does your Mom do this: fire questions at you in rapid succession that are seemingly harmless, and demand you answer them or she gets annoyed--the juicy tidbit she really wants to know is buried amongst the "innocent" sounding questions, and before you know it you've found that you've answered something you didn't really want her to know!

My mom does this with everything, not just medical stuff. She writes down dates, places, movies, things bought, household emergencies, etc... Like if I told her that I couldn't come over because the garage door opener broke and we have to go price a new one, she will write it down, so if we ever use that as an excuse, it is an instant - "LIAR! You already had that repaired back in February, unless you were lying about it back then..." Trying to avoid her questions is so difficult, because she does the 20 questions with several "loaded" ones sprinkled in with the innocent ones...oh, yes, she does that too!

~~~~~~~

She called me today - to let me know that my old cat (that she wouldn't let me take when I moved out) might have been sick, but seems to be fine now. She took him to the vet because of weight loss, but he is almost 12 years old, and slowing down and she also switched his food to a diet formula, so he SHOULD be losing weight.

I kept it light and breezy, with concern shown for my kitty (I would LOVE to go get him, but she gets angry about it) and thanked her for letting me know. She also had a few barbs in the conversation, but I refused to take the bait. I usually do, so that felt so good!! It was so freeing to not get drawn into her crazyness again!!


Yeah ME!
:)



If only closed minds came with closed mouths.