Author Topic: Falling in love with two people...  (Read 3383 times)

lissie_lou

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Falling in love with two people...
« on: April 10, 2006, 08:39:19 AM »
Hey people,

I haven't been on this message board in ages... Good to be back...

I read this article (because it's a huge mess I've been in for the last 12 months) and thought it was interesting.. If anyone has any comments or can relate, please let me know!

CAN WE BE IN LOVE WITH MORE THAN ONE PERSON AT THE SAME TIME?


DREW PINSKY, M.D., MTV "Loveline" co-host, Chief of Service, Department of Medicine, Las Encinas Hospital, Pasadena, California

People are quite capable of being in love with more than one person. Yet the clinical reality is that a healthy individual who is emotionally, spiritually and sexually available for love will find complete satisfaction in a dyadic relationship. Unfortunately, the kind of empathic attunement that's possible in a dyad is unusual these days. More commonly, individuals dissociate parts of themselves from their primary relationship. People suffering from fractured emotional lives--narcissists and borderlines, for example--would say they are capable of being in love with more than one person. The more interesting questions then become: What is revealed about individuals who are in love with more than one person? And how have such choices contributed to family dysfunction?


Here's the proper link:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_2_36/ai_100736636

pennyplant

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2006, 07:42:07 PM »
Hi Lissie Lou,

I will read the article in the next few days when I have more time.  But off the top of my head--

I have been married to one person for 23 years.  During that time I have fallen "in love" or been infatuated with two other men.  It was very difficult to feel that way.  It is something I have been trying to figure out for several years now and will probably wonder about for a long time to come.

I guess I'm not surprised to hear that this can be something that Ns do and Borderlines.  I don't think I am either one of those types.  But I have noticed a pattern with my emotions.  Most of my life, when something terrible has happened, such as a death in the family, within a year or two I have found myself falling in love with someone, becoming infatuated.  That seems to be a way I deal with or escape from trauma.  I did this at age six, age 15, age 40 and age 43.  Childhood, adolescence, middle-age.  I suppose it could be worse and I could have turned to alcohol or drugs.  But these infatuations have led to a lot heartbreak for me personally and my husband hasn't always known how to deal with it either.  We have both learned a lot about each other because of this tendency of mine.

I bet when I read the article it will sound very familiar to me.

Also, I know someone who may be N and he also does the same thing.  Married many years, father of two, and gets infatuated with other women.  I was one of those infatuations for a short time.  So, that was something.  I was receptive, let us say--that was age 43.  That one is getting resolved.  Pretty much resolved now.  It's still on my mind daily but little by little I'm leaving it behind.

Is this kind of what you're getting at Lissie Lou?

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

lissie_lou

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2006, 11:00:07 AM »
Yeah you really hit the nail on the head for me when you said "That seems to be a way I deal with or escape from trauma." I've been with a certain guy for the last 2 years, and yet for the last 10 months of our relationship I have been struggling with having an infatuation with someone else. And I KNOW deep down we would never really work well as a partnership and yet I seem to keep wanting to go to this other guy for comfort and understanding whenever a tough time pops up??

This second guy actually has gone through a really rough and distressing childhood himself, and so I think the connection between us has come about because of a deep understanding. He just understands the psychological things that I often share with him and yeah...as you said, it has led to a lot of heartbreak and terrbile confusion; not being able to figure out WHY and HOW it is possible that I feel as though I honestly love these two guys at the same time...

I've never really considered before that it could possibly be linked to the effects I've endured as a child (an only child as well) living with an N dad. Maybe it is related, maybe it's simply just something about my personality. I think that's always a question I will struggle with as I discover more about myself and the way I react in different situations: "Is this because of the influence of living with an N or is this simply ME?"

Like you, I made the decision 6 months ago to recommit to my loving boyfriend, and yet 6 months down the track I still have this other guy on my mind everyday. It's quite obssessive? Why can't I just 'get over' it!! Do I just have very poor self control over my mind? Or is this in fact something that is quite common but people just don't admit it or talk about it very often...

Hmmm yes...I apologise that my thoughts are rather rambled... I guess I'm just trying to figure out what things I should be giving attention to in my crazy life and what things about my mind that I need not worry about...

Liss

pennyplant

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2006, 04:18:43 PM »
Hi Liss,

I don't know either if it is just the way I am or if I was made this way on some level by my experiences.  I tend to think it is just the way I am and also that other people are this way too but don't talk about it or don't think about it the same way I do.  Everybody has to have some way of dealing with trauma or disappointment or disatisfaction.  Some drink, some beat up other people, some go shopping, some overeat.

I do think that I'm making connections on some level when I do this.  For example, when I was six or seven, I fell in love the first time.  He knew all about it before long because I didn't hide it.  By high school I lost track of him.  But in the past few years I have run into him on occasion and he seems to hone in on me.  My husband got very annoyed the first time he saw this.  I didn't even notice it.  It seems like this guy wants to tell me something but he never has beyond small talk.  That's what I mean by connection.  Something seems to be there but what it is, I may never learn.  In looking back and trying to understand why I would have had such strong feelings for someone who never treated me as more than a neighborhood friend most of the time, I looked at the timing of some major events.  Just before I "noticed" him, my mother's sister died tragically young and my three year old cousin died suddenly.  Shortly after that, I noticed this classmate and it was just instantaneous for me.  When we were both in 4th grade his father killed himself and the rumor was that he is the one who found the body.  That just broke my heart--I remember feeling incredibly sad for him.  And that is exactly when my feelings for him began to overwhelm me.  It took me probably four years to finally give up on him returning my feelings.  I was all of 12 when I gave up my first true love.  Maybe that sort of set my personality.  Maybe because of that early experience, I have always fallen into that familiar pattern of dealing with grief that way.

When I was almost 40, my son nearly killed himself (he is fine now) and then in the fall of that year was 9/11.  Events I probably should have grieved more.  A few months later I found myself incredibly attracted to someone I met through work.  It actually changed my entire personality.  Everybody noticed how happy I was.  And I didn't even try to have an affair or anything.  It was just enough to see him several times a week at work.  Then he got a new job and that was the end of that.  I was devastated.  Part of me believes some kind of connection was made that time too.  Even though it is in the past now, I still think of him often.  It took a long time to let go.  It was an excruciating process.

Sometimes I still feel very embarrassed for myself and my behavior.  And sometimes that makes me mad.  It was difficult and complicated.  I tried to deal with it the best way I knew how given that I wasn't exactly looking for something like that to happen.  In fact,  the one a few years ago, as soon as I met him, I told myself I would have to be careful and not go there.  But it found a way in without my even realizing it.  One time I was asked about it and I denied it.  Pretended I didn't feel the way I did.  I was even pretending to myself.  So, I feel like I should give myself some credit for not wanting to hurt anybody and as it turned out I was the one who was the most hurt anyway.  So, four years later, I try to be kind to myself as I would be to a friend in the same situation.

I think it does happen more often than it seems.  People don't like to talk about it.  We hear horror stories all the time.  So, that keeps people from admitting to their real feelings.

For me, I always knew that I wanted to stay married to my husband.  We are very good together and you don't find that all the time.  Especially as young as we were when we started.  So, it is not a question in my mind of looking for someone "better".  There isn't anyone better for me.  But these other connections--maybe these are guys that reached into a different part of me.  And it felt good.  But how to keep someone like that in your life without complications or anyone else getting jealous or hurt?  I haven't figured that out.  I have learned the hard way that it is far more complicated than I would have imagined.  It would be nice if we had some kind of ritual in our society for this part of our existance.  But instead all we have is monogamy and something of a division between men and women.  Maybe because feelings are so powerful, or maybe something else entirely.

My most recent infatuation happened to be with someone who behaved in ways that didn't make sense to me, especially since HE approached  ME with the idea having something on the side.  He said and did things that really hurt me.  And then it clicked.  I don't remember now the particular thing he did or said that reminded me of narcissism, but I decided one day to look it up and there were some of the odder things he did listed right there.  And that is how I have been able to deal with that one.  It's still a work in progress, but I have learned so much here and it has helped me to settle my ideas and move on from that experience.

I don't know that I want to just stop being the kind of person I am.  But I don't want to get hurt like that anymore.  Just figuring out my "pattern" has helped me feel better about it.  Learning about narcissism has helped.  It's a long process, though.

Maybe you were hoping someone here would have the quick fix.   :?  I don't think there is one, Liss.

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

mum

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2006, 05:50:39 PM »
This is very interesting to me. My exN was always falling in love with someone or another. Not just having sex with them (which he was) but after my discovery of his deciet, would always say, but I love them too.
Since I believe the Narcissist is just a frightened, undeveloped naked little thing, full of pain and torment....but clothed in the thickest layers of hardness and cruelty.........
it makes sense that they would look for escape from that in multiple ways. My ex drinks a lot. He throws himself into one unusual and "special" sport after another. Drives either a fancy (special) car or a real embarrassing bomby old thing (special).  Has a job that takes him around the world, and never the same place for long (no time for anyone to really get to know him....).  He forms temporary attachments to females on a regular basis (even though he is married).
All of these things take him further and further out into the crusty layers of his ego existance......and further away from the soft core of total terror that he (however subliminally) knows to be his true self.

pennyplant

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2006, 06:57:06 PM »
He forms temporary attachments to females on a regular basis (even though he is married).
All of these things take him further and further out into the crusty layers of his ego existance......and further away from the soft core of total terror that he (however subliminally) knows to be his true self.


My latest, and probably last, infatuation was with someone who may be N.  I watched him "play" our supervisor for years.  She was in love with him and he was told this many times by a couple of us.  He seemed not to believe us.  I always thought it was cruel of him to pay so very much attention to her when he had been told how she felt.  Once when I told him she was in love with him, he said he just couldn't get his mind around that.  But he acted like he returned her feelings.  I thought he did return her feelings because of his actions.  Then he "switched" to me.  It was quite different with me compared to the rush he put on her.  He told me that I looked exactly like a girl he had slept with when he was separated from his then girlfriend (now wife) back when he was in his early twenties.  He and his wife were having serious problems a couple years ago when this started.  It was actually a very odd, soap opera for awhile.  He seemed to enjoy that our supervisor could see that he was switching to me. Then he switched to someone else and again I got to see that my "replacement" was really falling for him.  He really seems to like that imbalance.  I expected reciprocity (I know, the whole thing wasn't healthy to begin with, but that was my version of standing up for myself and also testing if he was just playing a head game with me.)  So, it didn't last as long with me.  I guess anyway.  Who really knows what the thought process was, if any.  Narcissism makes a lot of sense as an explanation for his bahavior.  An explanation for my behavior--for now, I'm going with what I posted above.  Maybe similar childhood experiences drive both of us on some level.  Maybe we have similar "holes".  Probably we are at a similar emotional maturity or lack of.  The other two women also.  I know enough about them to know we have some important life events in common.  I don't think this man will ever be able to confront the terror inside of himself.  He has too many behaviors that he uses to numb himself.  It seems to be important that he not face difficult truths.

The thing that has worked best is distance.  No-contact is probably not possible since it's a workplace situation.  But the less contact, the better I feel.  In spite of still being drawn to him!!  It will take time for that to sink below the surface enough to stop causing me trouble.

PP
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

lissie_lou

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2006, 09:02:41 PM »
Thanks Pennyplant,

Your posts here have been of enormous help to me. Basically a lot of the things you have said are speaking truths into my own life.

For me, I always knew that I wanted to stay married to my husband.  We are very good together and you don't find that all the time.  Especially as young as we were when we started.  So, it is not a question in my mind of looking for someone "better".  There isn't anyone better for me.  But these other connections--maybe these are guys that reached into a different part of me.  And it felt good. 

I am young...yet despite my age, I feel firmly convinced that I will marry this wonderful guy in the near future. And I don't think I could find anyone 'better' either. But there have certainly been the possibilty of other 'connections' with other men. And it does feel good. But like you, I'm becoming more and more aware of the boundaries that I need to keep within, in even a simple friendship between male and female. And just thinking about the pain and confusion of this last year is also a good reminder that I don't want to fall into any more seemingly attractive 'connections' with other men!!

I don't want to lose what I already have; that is, someone who is incredibly forgiving, has a desire to help me through these testing times, a desire to see me happy and unburdened, someone who wants to marry me tomorrow if/when financials are put into place, someone who wants me to the best I can be, someone who is a wonderful friend and soulmate as well as a lover and someone who I know I would be happy with for the rest of my life. And I think the key thing is, I can look at my motives for wanting to be with this man, and I know that I want to give all of these things to him as well; see him grow and mature, to see him laugh and enjoy his gift of life, to see him excel in whatever he wants to pursue. I'm not selfishly wanting him as a source of all my needs (perhaps unlike some of the other guys with whom 'connections' have been made?) and it's this genuine care and love that I have, that keeps my head screwed on at times :)

I don't think the answers I am looking for will ever be complete whilst on this earth. But I do know that throughout the rest of my life, I will be pressing on to becoming a more complete person in myself...and dealing with issues such as these are all part of the fun of it ;)

Bless you and thanks for taking the time out to help and share with me. xxx

Hopalong

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2006, 09:20:09 AM »
PP, I understand this and agree and thank you for writing it:
Quote
It would be nice if we had some kind of ritual in our society for this part of our existance.  But instead all we have is monogamy and something of a division between men and women.  Maybe because feelings are so powerful, or maybe something else entirely.

I do think there are "connections." For me the danger has been in wanting them to become more, and still wanting to respect other people's lives and families. We don't have very many safe places when men and women can be close, without being lovers. We don't have many words for the complex ways we humans connect. We've got "husband" "friend" and "lover/boyfriend". There are things unlabeled, still real.

Hops
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pennyplant

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2006, 10:53:49 AM »
Liss,

I'm glad you brought up this topic.  It is a subject that means a lot to me and has changed me considerably.  But it's hard to talk about and I only talk about it with my husband and one good friend.  It feels better already just getting the chance to answer your questions--or at least address them.  Your guy sounds wonderful and the relationship is good for both of you.  That is an excellent starting point.  When tough times come along, you will have a strong base to operate from.  This kind of relationship is not one to let go of easily.  It is all too rare.

Hops,

You know, when I was right in the middle of my "connection" four years ago, I was convinced that I would be the person who finally figured out how to have such a relationship without anyone getting hurt.  I didn't have any words for it but I sure wanted to try.  But the guy didn't respond to me and I presume he didn't want to go there.  That was incredibly painful in and of itself--that rejection.  Rejection along with the feelings of loss led to the most painful time of my life ever.  It just felt like I was burning up inside or collapsing on myself.  It felt that way almost every minute of every day for a good long time.  I know there are people here who have had that kind of pain.    So, needless to say, I haven't invented the word or the ritual or the custom for what I wanted to be able to do.  Thank you for saying it is still real.  I don't think I will ever forget that time of my life.  It seems like a major event.  It was definitely a turning point in my life and my marriage.

PP
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

pennyplant

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2006, 03:32:06 PM »
Lissie,

I did get to read the whole article and I was struck by the idea that we disociate certain parts of ourselves.  I know I have done that.  Just gave up on whole parts of myself.  And so when I said these guys, mostly the one from several years ago, might have reached into different parts of me--well that fits with the disociation.  At that time I thought of it as him reminding me of who I might have become if my life hadn't gone in the direction it did.  So, even though it is hard, I know I have to reach those places myself.  He really did remind me of what I used to be like, the things I just naturally gravitated toward as a child, things which were never fed or paid attention to most of my life.  He is how I got started on watching really good films.  That is something that luckily my husband enjoys as much as I do.  Anything arts related.  I had completely forgotten what that interest does for my soul.  Because I was so overwhelmed with my family responsibilities at such a young age.  It is really slow-going, though.  When I knew him, it just brought me to life. I had all kinds of energy and confidence for the first time ever.   Now I feel like I'm slogging through my days sometimes.  But this harder work is probably what will really stick with me.  He definitely got me started on this path, though.  Have never met anybody like him.  Before or since.

That article seems right on the money to me.  And, again, it makes me feel better to see it put in normal, human terms.  I'm feeling like less of a silly little girl and more like a complicated but well-meaning person.   :D  I'm glad you found that and posted it.

PP
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

Trophywife

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2006, 11:59:14 PM »
Wow... this whole discussion is evidence that men are no less monogamous than women.The only reason men in some cultures have many wives is because men are bigger and can get away with it. I would venture to say that if it were socially acceptable, plenty of women would love to have more than one husband. I'm wondering what's going to happen in China and India, where things are starting to slant toward men outnumbering women.

CeeCee

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2006, 09:04:34 AM »
Hello all, that dissociation stuff is the key, I think.  The constant quiet buzz going on in our heads about our worthiness or lack of, that fight to BE despite and in spite of having N-afflicted primary caretakers, our little wounded selves are always on the lookout for that something (someone?) We aren't even aware of it, I believe.    Nonetheless, any encounter that helps to enlighten us about ourselves is a bonus.  We meet many angels on earth.   
Does anyone hear know of and listen to Abraham?  So helpful.  Soooooo helpful.  I will grab a sentence or two that I grabbed, or my spirit grabbed, I should say. 
I feel as tho' I'm finally realizing that the person I am avoiding full commitment to is myself.  It is like second nature for us to fall for Ns, almost like, this one is gonna be the one that is going to love me, ME ME ME!

pennyplant

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2006, 10:17:41 PM »
our little wounded selves are always on the lookout for that something (someone?) We aren't even aware of it, I believe.    Nonetheless, any encounter that helps to enlighten us about ourselves is a bonus.  We meet many angels on earth.   
Does anyone hear know of and listen to Abraham?  So helpful.  Soooooo helpful.  I will grab a sentence or two that I grabbed, or my spirit grabbed, I should say. 
I feel as tho' I'm finally realizing that the person I am avoiding full commitment to is myself.  It is like second nature for us to fall for Ns, almost like, this one is gonna be the one that is going to love me, ME ME ME!

Yeah, CeeCee, my little wounded self has been looking for someone all my life.  Guess I was looking in the wrong direction!  Should have been looking inward a little more.  You're so right about the idea of full commitment to self.  It took me all this time to value myself, though.  I have always looked externally for that.

What about Abraham?  A singer, writer?

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

movinon

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2006, 04:11:13 PM »
HAte to be simple about this, but it all sounds like symptoms of love addiction.  Yes there is something like that and it DOES have to do with "medicating" and feelings of self-worth.

You know...that familiar "high" you get (and some of you mentioned) w/ being around the object of the obsession?

Take this quiz to see if it might apply:

http://www.loveaddicts.org/40Questions.pdf

And the types:

http://www.loveaddicts.org/KindofLoveAddictsShortForm.pdf

Movinon
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pennyplant

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Re: Falling in love with two people...
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2006, 07:17:31 PM »
Hi MovinOn,

On the quiz, out of 40 questions, I could possibly answer yes to 8 of them.

On the descriptions, I thought maybe I was closer to the romance addict discription.

None of the descriptions really leapt out at me as describing my own history.  The effects of narcisissism resonate with me more than love addiction.  In other words, I don't think I would have entertained the idea of something "on the side" if I had been raised in a more average family that met my childhood needs for attention, love and affection, and if I had been taught even minimal social skills that allowed me to learn about relationships with my peers when I was still growing up.

I can identify with the medicating aspects of love addiction.  It does feel better to be in love than to be stressing about a crappy life or being depressed.  But the after effects are so painful--well for me it looks like the cure is contained within the disease.

Maybe I'm making it more complicated.  It seems to me that what I've experienced the last few years is something that normal people go through in their teens and twenties, then outgrow.  I didn't experience it then because I had responsibilities early on.  So, once the responsibilities fell away, I kind of picked up where I left off.

Watching my son and his friends have their normal stages of development in their late teens and early twenties, they are experiencing all levels of relationships.  Most of them will move on and settle down with someone.  I feel like I have something more in common with that stage of life rather than a full-blown addiction.

Middle age has been disappointing so far.  It did make me feel young and hopeful when I knew that person a few years ago.  But it ended up being so painful that I don't want to go through that again.  My marriage matters a lot to me as well.

Thanks for posting the websites, MovinOn.  It gives me more information to think about and I appreciate that.

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon