Narcissistic mother...

[mum]

A new sheriff:
I appreciate how well you manage to put your words together. How you describe your trials and conclusions make total sense.
I don't think there is an "answer" really. Not one that fits every circumstance, anyway. We can only take care of ourselves. There is no "magic" that will take any of us away from the suffering and JOY that is being human. We go through. Not above, not around, but through. We get help, others may show us their way, but ultimately it is a singular journey, that is at once.....all of ours to make. Thanks for sharing your insights here.

[gratitude28]

Hi ANewSheiff,
I am about in exactly the same boat as you. I have been blaming myself for 25 years for being different from my family... they must not like me because I don't have the same interests, or Because I live far away now, or because I was a bad child, or... I couldn't even think of what else to fill in. But I knew there had to be some reason my mother didn't like me and it must have been my fault.
I work a program... am in AA, and was trying to make amends and all and realizes after finding out about NPD that all I was doing was feeding her. She loves to hear how wrong I was. She thinks all children are basically rotten and annoying, so of course she didn't like me. I was a good student, went to a fabulous college, have a Master's degree, but am basically a weird person to her and someone who "always does bad things," although the things she always assumes I do are not things I have done mostly. It is so strange.
Lately I feel kind of bad for her, because she seems not to know anymore how to have her type of control with me, so she is floundering and confused. For many years, long before I knew about NPD (I just found out a few months ago), I refused to play her games. When she started crying, raging, insinuation, whatever, I walked away until she decided it wasn't effective and for the most part stopped doing it. She always tries once or twice to engage me if I am around her, but she usually backs off. And fortunately, I have a father who does not buy into her little fantasies about my supposed behaior, so at least I have been able to have half the sef esteem I should have had.
At any rate, I wish I knew the answer for you, but I don't. I am working through it one day at a time and trying not to hold resentments (so hard to do!!!).
Take care and let us know how things are going.
Love, Beth

[ANewSheriff]

gratitude28: 

I work a program... am in AA, and was trying to make amends and all and realizes after finding out about NPD that all I was doing was feeding her. She loves to hear how wrong I was.

I also had this experience with my mother years and years ago.  Looking back it is so very clear, but at the time I was simply baffled.  I just did not possess the skill or information to know how to wrap my mind around her seeming to gloat over my humbling confession.

The past year was a boot-camp of sorts, though.  Today, I realize she does not possess the ability to empathize or care for others except for herself.  My freedom has been awareness and "awayness".

ANewSheriff

[gratitude28]

I have the advantage of living far away. She always complains about that, but when we are there, she is always upset, especially if I pay any attention to my father. She quickly finds a way to start crying about something (last time it was because I told her she was never happy with the temperature... something she always says about herself jokingly.) She ran out of thee restaurant crying and sniveling. Every time I go to visit, if I say I would like to visit a childhood friend (Lord knows there are few enough of them), she starts screaming that I didn't even go there to visit them and why did I bother.
I don't know. I go back there this summer. I want my kids to see my dad and all. And I just don't want my children to ever know how I feel abut all this and what she's actually like. I want them to feel life is happy and normal, which they do. My parents tore apart my grandparents in front of me every day... I always wanted to ask them, "How would you feel if I said this about you to others???"
I think it helps a lot just to get all of this out and see what I have a hand in and what was truly beyond my control. I am still working on separating all that out. I did write a journal listing and detailing all the things I could remember which I am sure came from the NPD. It felt great to get it out. I haven't reread. Probably never will, but it made me feel sane to see so much and know it was real and I was not a bad person.
Love, Beth

[ANewSheriff]

Beth,

Your story sounds long and complicated.  One thing you mention is that your father is supportive and nurturing.  I understand your efforts to want to maintain some kind of relationship for your kids and your father.  This makes it pretty tough for you. 

Luckily, being in recovery has given you tools that you can apply to this situation.  You are indeed powerless over your mother and her actions.  The serenity prayer gives you the mindset to keep your focus on the only person you can change in the relationship - you and your reactions to your mother.

What a frustrating path for you and your family.  You mentioned your father is somewhat aware of your mother's problems.  Does he talk openly about this with you?  Do you have any advocates in this family?  I sure hope so.  I understand all too well the pain of being the lone vocalist.  In my case, once I realized I was fighting a losing battle I settled down and just shut up.  It was then that others began to find their own voices.  Family dynamics are so interesting. 

I am so glad you are here.  I look forward to sharing your journey with you.

ANewSheriff       

[gratitude28]

Hi ANewSheriff,
I have actually been discussing what to do about my father with my husband. In a way, my parents have some sort of relationship that works for them. My father had a horrible role model for a mother and I am not sure he has any idea what normal is, although he is a good and kind mane (if a bit authoritarion at times... truly a normal kind of annoying parent, ya know?). He adores my children and that hurts me, because I would love for them to get to see him more. So, my point is, if I tell him what I know, it may answer some of his questions about my mother as he has seemed to be as puzzled as I was by her reactions to things and by her general demeanor. But on the other hand, will I hurt their realtionship? Should I just stay out of it?
I do say the serenity prayer more than you can imagine. Unfortunately, when I was really angry for a bit, I was saying it through clenched teeth. My mother offended me terribly a month or so ago, and it took me a while to shake it off. And I know I can't afford to be angry, but I was having a hard time with it.
Do you say prayers for your family? I try to, but that is hard for me as well. I was told to wish for them what I would want for myself.
I need to get some work done. Will check in later.
Love, Beth

[ANewSheriff]

Beth:

So, my point is, if I tell him what I know, it may answer some of his questions about my mother as he has seemed to be as puzzled as I was by her reactions to things and by her general demeanor.

Beth, my gut reaction to this is to share the information with him in a gentle way.  If you feel truly safe with your father and feel that there is mutual trust, it might be healing for both of you.

 You might simply tell him that you have been struggling with your relationship with your mother for a long time, chose to seek out some answers about the family dynamics, and found some information that seems to make sense to you.  You might ask him, "Dad, I wonder if you might want to hear what I have found out and help me to make some kind of sense as to how this applies to us."
 
Beth:

Do you say prayers for your family?

Yes, I do say prayers for my family.  Like you, they are not always sincere and heartfelt.  I admit this and ask for help with my resentments and judgmentalness, and inability to forgive.  Sometimes, it is almost as if I can hear a chuckle in reponse - like, are you kidding me?  You think you will get off that easy?  Have you heard the saying, "If you ask God for patience he is going to put you in a long line."?  Sometimes I wonder if my life is akin to a situation comedy in another realm. 

ANewSheriff   

[reallyME]

Beth,

I'd like to give my unasked-for opinion on something here.  It's only my opinion and I will own it as that.  If I was talking about my beliefs or the Bible, I would say this is truth, but this is just my view of things here:

The very WORST thing you can do as a parent, is to shield your children from knowing the truth about narcissism and who is one.  Let them be made aware early on, that everyone is not the sweet person they pretend to be.  Let them be forewarned and forarmed.  My opinion is that the more you try and pretend all is well, the more damage is done in the long run.  Let them be informed and aware so they can recognize the signs and avoid those types of toxic people in life.

~ReallyME

[gratitude28]

ReallyMe,
My kids are 5 and 7 right now. I know that they will figure things out in a bit. I was so amazed (before I knew about NPD) about how my mother acted with them when she came to visit. She liked them if they were being cute, but she showed absolutely no love for them just for being her grandchildren. I couldn't understand it at the time. They don't feel it yet. I am always with them and I love them more than the moon and the starts. I would not leave them alone with her. She would probably not be mean, but I can remember so many instances in my childhood when she did not supervise us at all. I almost drowned at 5 because she thought I was playing, my sister ran out into the road as a baby, we spent hours and hours on back roads biking or fishing in the woods and she had no idea where we were... and I know I wasn't more than 10 or 11 then. She just did her thing and we did what we wanted as long as we didn't bother her too much.
At any rate, recently she wrote a letter to my son after he sent her an email and she said she expected him to write to her once a week and talk about what was going on in his life, etc. I responded (and copied my dad) that it was very challenging for a 7-year-old to write even a short letter as he does it all by himself and that I was sure he could write a bit more, but would be unable to write the amount she requested. My son knew I was upset about it... so yes, he does get some idea. Do you really think I could explain this to them at such a young age? Don't you think they will see it as they get older?

ANewSheriff,
I have read some of your other posts as well, and I think we are related. My dad is also a functioning alcoholic. I was thinking of presenting things along the lines of what you suggested.l Being that he is an intellignet person, he must wonder some of the same things I wondered for so long. I couldn't understand how my mother could have such a vague memory that she couldn't remember the simplest conversation or directions to anything and yet she can answer every single question on Jeopardy. How did she have opinions about current events when she didn't even know what they were about? And... speaking of that... my fatehr is her "authority figure." So that was another thing I was worried about.

It is all so hard, but I am happy that I can start to understand my life more. ANd the program helps me deal with this all so much better. I don't think I could have handled all this without it.

Thanks y'all and so sorry to write another long-winded post!!!!
Love, Beth

[cwings]

This past Tuesday my mom called me at 8:15am. She was very rude. Wanted to know why I didn't call her etc. I been away, she knew it, but hadn't called her yet. For I was tired from a long trip. I told her before I went that was going somewhere an its was a secert. Mind you this is my mom, she asked me were was I going, told her nothing, she got mad. And when I came back she asked me again, never saying Hi how are you or just glad, She never say anything good to me. Always talking down at me. I'm an adult,shouldn't be treated this way. Don't need to sign in or out with anyone. My mom is very controlling.I'm receiving help in this situation. At the end of the conversion, she said I won't call you anymore, because I didn't give her the information she wanted.She hung up on me,I felt rejected by my own mom, just because of this phone call. How stupid is that? She has controlled me all my life and realizing that no how a mom should be.

[reallyME]

gratitude28: Do you really think I could explain this to them at such a young age? Don't you think they will see it as they get older?

When it comes to the whole idea of "sheltering" children, I'd be the last one and the worst one to talk to.  3 of my daughters watched their sisters being born, for instance.  Some people consider that to be damaging to a child, yet my girls are good, Godly, responsible citizens and they trust me, because I never shielded them in any way, other than the necessary protective ones.  I also never lied to them about Santa Clause, the Easter bunny, etc.  I remember how FURIOUS I was with my mother in 6th grade, because I had to find out by being made fun of, that Santa Claus was never real.  I just plain think it's cruel to do to children.  My opinion.

So, yes, I really do think you can explain it to them.  My daughter is 7, and when I tell her "I do not like your Aunt, because she tried to take you away from me," she fully understands that.  I also have told my husband's relatives, that my children do not HAVE to like them, hug them, nor laugh at their perverted jokes.  My children are being raised to eventually think for themselves without me being there.  I do not live my life vicariously through any of my 4 daughters and I get angry when I meet parents who do that. It's cruel, it's crippling and it's not the way God intended raising children to be.  period.

~ReallyME

[gratitude28]

Hi cwings,
You don't have to answer your mom. That is very cruel and childish behavior on her part. If she were to just say, "Oh, I wanted to know where you are going in case something happnes," or "Wow, I am glad you are going somewhere... where do you plan to go?" then I am sure you would give her a normal response. People on this site and other sites have helped me "correct" the conversations that I have to understand what a normal conversation with a loving parent would be like. We can't expect to have that kind of conversation, but, as one of my dear friends said, knowing about NPD, we won't be surprised by anything that the person says...
Your mom is playing a little power struggle game... much like parents with little children who try to force them to do things their way instead of showing them how to do things for themselves. Since you are an adult, in her sick mind she fears that she no longer has any way to control you. As ANewSheriff pointed out, the N becomes bewildered and acts out when they don't know how to maintain that control they once had.
Good luck to you and keep posting!!!
Love, Beth

[reallyME]

Beth: Your mom is playing a little power struggle game... much like parents with little children who try to force them to do things their way instead of showing them how to do things for themselves. Since you are an adult, in her sick mind she fears that she no longer has any way to control you. As ANewSheriff pointed out, the N becomes bewildered and acts out when they don't know how to maintain that control they once had.
Good luck to you and keep posting!!!

Hi.  As CW's mentor, I am going to comment here.  Beth, you are right on target!  Cw needs to realize that her "mother" never acted like one to begin with, first of all.  Secondly, she responded for the very reasons you mentioned, the way she did.  Thirdly, It has been all about control for this woman for YEARS!  I have suggested to people I counsel, to view their hearts and lives as a "bank"...and to ask themselves, "What is being deposited by this?  What is being withdrawn?  Can I afford to have these withdrawls taking place as often as they are?"  The IDEAL situation, would be for there to be ALL DEPOSITS from the mother, but in reality, I think most of us know that with an N, the only deposits that are made, will be only if we are KISSIN BUTT and doing things exactly how THEY want them...of course, then again, we really can't ever find out what that WAY is, cause we never seem to "measure up"

Thanks Beth.  Good job and very accurate

~ReallyME

[gratitude28]

You are really sweet, ReallyME.
I am making tons of 'deposits' with my kids
They are the lights and love of my life. We can make a difference with them so that they never have to feel what we felt.
Love, Beth