18 yo d. feeling "froggy"

[movinon]

Hi all,

I just wanted to share a bit of a tough situation with you all.  I spoke to my 18 yo D last night who lives in another state 4 hours away and is graduating from HS - she is the validictorian!  She lives w/ her dad, who is a pretty decent guy, and her step-mom, who struggles w/ a lot of issues.

They are not making much of a big deal about her graduation.  S.m.'s friend took her Sr. pictures and I have not even seen all of them.  The "best" one's I saw were pretty pitiful.  I think she deserves more.  I just think that if it were a b-day party for one of HER kids(they have 2 together, they would have had NO problem spending $200.
 
As a matter of fact, they had about 30 people over for a parade and cooked chicken and sausage gumbo for all of them and I'll bet that cost a bit.  PRIORITIES.  I think she should get something for working so hard and sacrificing so much.
 
When I spoke to her last night, she was wanting me to move back to that state (where I grew up and where there is NOTHING there to offer me - except her).  She thinks she needs to take care of me.  It was hard trying to explain that I DIDN'T WANT to move back there.  Family means different things to her and I.  And I didn't say it, but she will be off in her own life soon and I would be STUCK there.

She just didn't seem to understand that, that place and the "backwardness" of attitudes there have been very harmful to me in my life.  It's a place where machoism is VERY dominant (deep South) and a woman wouldn't DARE step out of the house without make-up - I've recently dyed the grays in my hair blue for goodness sake!  I don't want to have to defend all the whys of not wanting to live there, but I am feeling a lot of guilt today.

I only see her once a month and she is saying that's not enough.  I've been in my state for 10 years now and I LOVE it here.  My family and support system is here (more support and love than I could have ever imagined).

Am I just being selfish?

Movinon

[Brigid]

Movinon,
Just so I understand the situation correctly--don't want to make assumptions.  Did you move away from your daughter when she was 8 years old, or did she move with you at that time, and some time inbetween she went to live with dad and sm?  If you did move away from her 10 years ago, I would probably have said you were being selfish at that time without knowing more details.  Girls need their moms during those difficult pre-teen, teen-age and young adult years (I also have an almost 18 yo d, who is also graduating this year).  I personally could never have left my children and been satisfied with a once per month visit, no matter how difficult it was for me.  Being a mother has been my only passion in life and my children have so much to do with the person that I have become, but that's just me and how I would choose to live and I am not passing any judgment on what you needed to do to save yourself.

If you have lived apart for all these years, it is odd that she would choose now to want you to move back.  She is obviously a very bright, accomplished young lady, who will be heading off to college somewhere in a few months.  She is also an adult who can choose to live wherever and with whomever she chooses.  Unless she plans to live at home for her college years, what benefit is there for you to be where she is presently?  I know that my son, who is currently finishing up his junior year in college, will be staying in his college town for the summer, as will most of his friends.  They really don't come home much after the first or second year of college, based on my experience and that of most of my friends.

I guess that without knowing the answer to my original question, it would be hard to answer yours without including a lot of disclaimers.  I do wholeheartedly agree, however, that dad and s.o. should be making a big deal of her amazing accomplishments.  She is obviously a special girl and should be made to feel that way.  I spent a fortune on senior pics so my daughter could be proud of them and want to share them with her friends.  I will also be having a grad party next month, as this is what she wants (my son didn't).  Maybe you can take her on a short trip somewhere to celebrate her graduation and spend some special time together.  Just a suggestion.

Brigid

 

[Certain Hope]

Hi Movin,

  I'm sure there are plenty of conflicting emotions both in your own heart and in your daughter's at this time. From your daughter's perspective, I'd guess she is testing the waters, so to speak, re: her own future and how her soon-coming "freedom" from the confines of high school might impact your relationship with her. My older girls are now 23 and 19 and although each one's time of graduation from high school was completely different, each was a rather traumatic season in all of our lives for various reasons. It'd take at least 1,000 words to explain, so for now I'll just say... I don't think it's selfish of you to not want to relocate to a place that's no longer home to you. In fact, my opinion is that it'd be less than wise to make any major decisions based on the fancy of an 18 year old, because those notions tend to change like the wind. If you feel like sharing more of the story, I'd also be interested in hearing some of the things that Brigid asked. Maybe we can share and compare notes and each learn something new about each other... and about ourselves   In the meantime, one thing I always try to remember, especially about my grown children, is: I'm the mama, I'll always be the mama, I know my kids love me and by God's grace some day they will understand the complexities of life and forgive me for my own imperfections.
Oh, and... we didn't do the big senior picture deal either... finances were tight and I just didn't consider photos a priority at that time...  yikes, now I'm starting to feel guilty about that    But you know, your daughter sounds like such an intelligent and well-focused young woman... maybe she doesn't feel a bit shortchanged on that deal. I hope not.

Hope

[seasons]

Hi movinon,

Why would your daughter want to take care of you? Is it something she has always wanted to do. Like someday mom....
You sound very proud of her as you should be! What a huge accomplishment, Congratulations.

I agree a little more details would help understand why your daughter has these ideas. I'm sure it must be stressful. Thinking of you. seasons

[movinon]

Brigid -

I could never have moved without my children either, so they came with me.  She lived with me from 8-14 and then decided to move "back".  The reasons she gave were b/c both of our families were there (mine and her dad's), she wanted to practice her religion w/ a family (my stbx HATED religion and constantly degraded her about it), and she gave me 6 years and wanted to give her dad the last 4.  One thing she didn't say, which I know applied was the trauma of living in our household.  You've all read about my stbxH, so life was NOT easy there.  He was always trying to control things and I did a good bit of fighting against it myself, but he was ultimtely a TOTAL CONTROL FREAK. 

Needless to say, my D hates him.  Now I'm feeling some shame again at letting all of that happen.

When we moved, they would go and see their dad every other weekend (8 hours drive per weekend).  When my D decided to move back, we made it so that on one weekend my son would go and they would be all together, then on the next weekend, my D would come over and the kids would be together (incl. my 6 yo).

Unless she plans to live at home for her college years, what benefit is there for you to be where she is presently?

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question, but I'll answer it anyway.  I am of the opinion that she would live with me (???? - didn't discuss it).  There is the college in the town, so she would just have to go down the road every morning.

SHe will be going to Europe for her senior trip and I'm getting her a laptop.  Not sure what to do about the picts though since I'm already 15K and counting in the whole w/ a-hole.

Certain Hope - Yeah, I guess she is testing the waters.  She still wants to have "visitation" even though she turned 18.  I don't know how long that will last.  I live in a VERY big city and her dad doesn't want her driving to come and see me so he still delivers her to me.  He also thinks her car won't make the trip.   I think the crux of it is that she doesn't want to grow up and be an adult.  I think it's scary for her.

Seasons -

Why would your daughter want to take care of you? Is it something she has always wanted to do. Like someday mom....

I think it's hard for my children to see me alone.  I've been a victim and I assume they want to try to "protect" me.  I REALLY, REALLY don't want this.  Also, in that "old" culture that she wants me to move back too, women can not do muc or be much w/out a man.  Maybe that mentality is strong in her head. (God, I hope not) I am the mother and I am there to take care of THEM.  I think since I've done so much PD work, I am more vulnerable and like it or not, I used to be pretty hard -@$$.  MAybe they see it as weakness.  I use to pride myself on NEVER crying.  Heck, I cry whenever I need to now.  I know it's healthy.  I let my feelings come up and FEEL them.  I think they are just not so used to this since it is new and don't really know how to just BE with me while I'm having my feelings.  SOOOOO, I guess I'll have to have a little talk w/ them about it.

I say THEM b/c my son was wanting to take care of me too.  I know one of the best things I can do for them is to be a good example of someone taking care of business!

And thank you all for the compliments on my D.  SHe IS amazing.

Movinon

[Brigid]

movinon,
Thank you for the explanation.  It helps a lot to understand the history.  I do understand why she would choose to move back with her dad if stbx was not good to be around.  No point in continuing to beat yourself up about that--you have left him now and the kids will be proud of you for doing that in the long run.

I'm still a little confused about what she is doing after graduation.  I would think she would have had a number of options regarding college choices based on her validictorian status.  Has she decided that she is going to the college in her current home town?  I think kids gain so much from leaving home for college and living in a dorm with other students.  Is that not an option financially, or is she just not comfortable with leaving home?  If you live in a large city, is there a college there that could be an option?  Is dad stepping up to help pay for that?

I think our children naturally want to see us happy if we have a good relationship with them.  I think it was very difficult for my children to see the misery I went through when my ex left--and I tried very hard to hide most of the sadness I endured so they wouldn't be so worried.  I'm sure they wondered if I would ever be happy again.  Now that I have a bf that they like and admire and see me so happy, I know they are relieved and happy for me.  The whole thing has been more difficult for my daughter as she has had to live here through the whole experience, while my son had just left for college when the marriage fell apart.  But both kids have felt the need to protect me during that time.  I think the more difficult thing for them, however, is trying to figure out their relationship with their father--who left me suddenly, for another woman, who was and still is married.  As my son said, the "ick factor" is so high on that whole thing, he just can't reconcile the man is father has become (or always was, but hid it well).

I think that at this point, you would be better off staying where you are.  I think your ex needs to let your d start driving herself to visit you so that her feeling of gaining independence can start to grow and feel more secure.  We can only protect them for so long and then we must start letting go.  I have a wonderful poem that I have framed and hanging in my family room.

Children are like kites.
You spend a lifetime trying to get them off the ground.
You run with them until you're breathless--they crash--they hit the rooftop--
you patch and comfort, adjust and teach--you assure them that someday they'll fly!

Finally they are airborne, but they need more string and you keep
letting it out--though with each twist of the ball of twine,
you find there is a sadness than goes with the joy. . .

The kites become more distant and
you know it won't be long before those beautiful creatures
will snap the lifeline that bind you together and will soar. . .
as they are meant to soar. . .
free and alone.

You have obviously done a great job as a mom.  Your d needs to figure out her own life now as you are figuring out yours.  Keep demonstrating your strength and determination and showing them a great example of survival.  These are lessons they will forever cherish.

Hugs,

Brigid

[movinon]

Brigid -

THanks for the poem - wow

Moving away to college - sore point for me.  I WISH she would consider a better college (I should know-I went there).  I too think there is a great benefit to getting out on your own.  I have some WONDERFUL colleges around me, but she wants to stay in the same town she's in at the local college - and yes, she could have had her pick with her grades and scores.  BUT... 

SHe pretty much has college paid for at this point - scholorships.

You make some really good points about her and independence.  I think I'll talk to her dad about letting her come to see me on her own.  I know she's "of legal age" to make her own decisions, but she would not go against her dad except in extreme situations and with GREAT amounts of anxiety.  She doesn't date, go "out" or any of that.  She does have a job. And I am definately staying where I am.

Hope this explains a little more.

I'm so sorry about what your ex did to you.  RAT!!!  Do you have trouble trusting in this relationship?  I don't feel like I would be able to trust another partner yet...maybe I just need more time or maybe it's a big wound that needs work to heal.

Anyway I'm glad you are happy these days with your bf.

Movinon

[Brigid]

Movinon,
It is really too bad that your d is not going away to college.  It sounds like it could be very beneficial for her to gain that sense of independence, manage her own affairs, have an opportunity for a social life and have more balance in her life.  My d is very shy and doesn't make friends easily (still has the same ones that she's had since middle school).  She too doesn't date--although she did get asked to the prom, thank goodness, and had a good time.  I see being at a big university 350 miles away with none of her close friends around, as a great opportunity for her to blossom and come out of her shell.  I know she is really looking forward to it.  Maybe after a year of being in college, your d will get stronger and develop the need to be more independent and make the choice to at least live away from home.  Does her dad try to promote that or thwart that?  If he's working to keep her dependent on him, someone needs to talk to him about that as he's certainly not doing her any favors.

I'm so sorry about what your ex did to you.  RAT!!!  Do you have trouble trusting in this relationship?  I don't feel like I would be able to trust another partner yet...maybe I just need more time or maybe it's a big wound that needs work to heal.

Thank you.  There is much more to it and many more secrets and lies he kept throughout our 22 year marriage, but no point in rehashing that old stuff.  Rebuilding the ability to trust has been huge for me--not just in a love relationship, but in any relationship.  Therapy really helped to teach me how to really SEE the red flags and enter a relationship with more objectivity.  We started the relationship very slowly and saw each other casually for 4 months before getting more romantically involved.  I did not introduce him to my kids until we had been dating seriously for another 3 months.  Fortunately, we know a lot of people in common, live in the same community, and even have kids in the same class--so it was pretty easy for me to check him out before getting involved. 

Yes, being able to trust again does take time and wounds do need to heal, but at least in my case, therapy was also a necessary component.  And I still deal with it.  Still wait for the other shoe to drop.  Still think I could find out something that I didn't know before.  But it gets better and most importantly, I know that I have the strength to walk away rather than make excuses, or think I could change him if I did find out something I didn't feel comfortable with, that he had lied about or kept from me.

Brigid

[pennyplant]

My sons are both late bloomers, in different ways.  Oldest son had lots of problems socially and couldn't wait to get out of town.  He picked one college, got a scholarship in art and headed off to NYC.  This was an incredibly shy, awkward kid with several emotional problems.  He had a real rough time of it there, especially the first year.  It was much worse than he let on to us, but he stuck it out because in his mind, if he came back home he might as well be dead.  Seriously.  It took a long time and some really scary situations (that we did know about, including him being there for 9/11) and he has ended up with many, many close friends and can support himself.  Still not easy though, the other emotional stuff hasn't quite gone away yet.  But he works on it.

Youngest son, much more socially adept in school but still a "slow-to-warm" type.  Sensitive.  Often says of himself, "I have no social skills" the difference being he thinks it's funny.  Went "away" to school (an hour away but lived in dorms) and came home for Christmas and talked to his friends here (friends he's had since grade school) and went and transferred to the local college and got his financial aid all straightened around by himself.  And has spent the next three semesters actively working on his self-confidence and making additional friends to the ones he already has.  After all, it may be a community college, but there are many out of town students there and he also has a job where there are all kinds of new people coming in for him to meet.

He is transferring to another school that he feels will serve his interests better than the original one.  It too is an hour away and the plan now is to live at home and commute until he meets new friends who he can room with in the college town.

He has figured out all this stuff mostly by himself and with his lifelong friends.  They are supporting each other in making something of a gradual transition to adulthood.  These young people know they want to become successful adults and some of them are making mistakes but learning as they go from each other.

What I'm getting at is that community college and lifelong friends don't have to be a trap.  They can be a comfort zone from which to branch out gradually.

I have no life-long friends.  I have always just cut ties and moved on (well me and my husband).  Now we are middle-aged, having been independent all our lives.  I now see a huge value in bonding with your home town and your life-long friends.  Success?  I see that as success now.  When I was young I thought it was college and high power jobs and flashy lifestyle, none of which were ever in the cards for me ( I realize now).

I know--valedictorian means something.  Scholarships mean something.  But a shy, sheltered person needs a buffer.  A safe place to gain confidence.  No matter how smart.  My son in NYC told me recently--you know who the "successful" ones from college were?  The partiers, (because they were the ones with social skills), not the ones who got good grades.  He got all As.  He had a scholarship.  When his friends partied he was the responsible one who cleaned up the disgusting mess afterwards.  He is very, very talented.  But with his personality he doesn't have the confidence to go after jobs that he could run with.  And he knows this.  He's something of a partier now, but somehow I don't think that counts any more.  Now it's a way to feel good when you don't feel so hot.  Anyway....

I'm not saying here--be a partier, don't work hard.  I'm saying that social skills will save you every time regardless of the quality of school work or how talented you are.  Good grades, high intelligence are bonus.  In conjunction with social skills, you can then go to the top.

This is how it has worked for my sons and what they have taught me about the process.  It's something to consider.  Community college and staying home for a time can be valuable too if the young person uses this time to learn to be confident and meet new people.

Pennyplant

[movinon]

Brigid -

All I can do is make suggestions about college - the rest is up to her, so I will choose to put the college thing on the backburner.  Thanks for sharing about the trust thing.  I am working w/ my T on it and what you said made a lot of sense to me.  Godd for you for taking it so slowly!!!  THat's how I want to do it when the time comes.


Hiya Pennyplant -

Yeah, I get what you say about needing a buffer - I think that's a factor AND I think she's REALLY attached to her family and church community (I never had a desire to stay in the same community - I wanted to experience the WORLD)

I think we see other things a little differently.  My D is not a partier and I am fine about that.  If I gave the impression she was lacking in social skills somehow, that is not the case.  She is a very smart judge of character.  She GETS ALONG with everyone and takes pride in not being part of a clique per se.  She CHOSES not to get involved with shallow, materialistic people and I feel very proud about that.  She doesn't give her heart away easily, but doesn't keep it totally shielded.

I guess I would disagree that being a "partier" is a good thing across the board.  I was a partier and I don't think that geve me an advantage.  I think it was a hinderance, but I do understand what your sons mean when they compare it to a straight A student that might be lacking social skills.

The college she is going to IS an accredited university, and I guess I should be glad she's not thinking about being a nun anymore!!!

I'm not sure what going to the top means for you, but to me it means being happy and rich in people that love you.  (Okay not hooked on drugs or alcohol either and enough to pay the rent).

If I am sounding defensive, I don't mean to.  I just concentrated a GREAT DEAL on socializing my children so that they could get along in the world on thier own.

And thank you for honestly sharing about your experience with the "cut-n-run" of your previous experiences.  (I hope you don't mind me using that phrase - I have been very familiar with the technique).

Movinon

[pennyplant]

Hi MovinOn,

Yes, I had the impression she was very shy and might not have social skills.  She actually sounds very together and self-confident and that is the thing I was getting at.  Maybe partier was an unfortunate choice of words.  My son is kind of "edgy" or blunt and that was how he put it.  I understood what he meant by it.  He meant the outgoing ones who can just walk into a party and talk to anyone and have that confidence that they are welcome anywhere.  Willing to try new things.  He also knew people who partied too much and did drugs to their detriment.  Those people didn't succeed either--one of them died!

We haven't pressured him at all about "success"--he seems to be pressuring himself and feeling badly that he doesn't use his talents in a bigger, better paying environment.  My definition of success has changed considerably from when I was 18.  We feel happy that he didn't get himself into family responsibilities far too early like we did.  We are impressed that he can live happily in a place like NYC and support himself and make such good long-lasting friendships.  My hope is that he will begin to share his artwork with the public.  I think he wants to but lacks the confidence.

Anyway, now I understand more what your daughter is like.  I truly believe she will be fine and use her talents whether she stays close to home a little while longer or just jumps right into the big old world out there.  She sounds more together than most of the adults I know!  Including me!!

What is "cut-n-run"?  It doesn't sound like anything offensive but I've never heard it before.  I don't mind if my experiences didn't quite match with your situation.  Now I understand better.  I shared them because it sounded like you were somewhat concerned that your daughter's choice might mean she would be trapped in the small town.  I wanted to be reassuring is all.  My kids have learned from their choices and I know your daughter will too.  And learning means growing.

You have every reason to be very proud of your kids!

Pennyplant