Author Topic: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"  (Read 5372 times)

Certain Hope

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2006, 02:03:25 PM »
Hi,

   Jac's response brought me to think about why I don't get all charged up about topics like global warming. There are a number of reasons, I'm sure, but I think fundamentally it's because I believe in a loving Creator God who holds the very stars iwithn their places in the sky, at His will.

   I do agree with Jac's statement re: the law of cause and effect, which I believe is a variation of the law of sowing and reaping. My belief that God gave mankind dominion over the earth goes hand in hand with my belief that mankind is responsible for good stewardship of everything within his dominion... from his own heart to the land, the seas, the atmosphere... always aware of his impact on everyone and everything around him.

   I guess what I resist about some of the environmentalists I've read is the spirit of fear which is expressed in many of their dire warnings. I believe that God reveals Himself to those who seek Him with all of their hearts, plus He also makes His sun to shine on those who don't know Him, as well as on those who do. In other words, I believe that He gives knowledge re: science ~ medical, environmental, etc ~ because He loves the children whom He created and wants to help them do the best with what they've been given. The fact that some may not heed what I view as God-given wisdom as it relates to good stewardship of this planet is, to me, far less of a concern than the fact that some will not heed God's offer of a Savior in His Son, Jesus Christ.

    Thanks, Jac... for what I've received as a wake-up call re: finding a spiritual voice as well as a fleshly one. Your other thread re: The Problem was the beginning of another step of growth for me.

Hope

mudpuppy

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2006, 03:53:45 PM »
Quote
.... I don't believe the majority of scientists who acknowledge the reality
of GW are Chicken Littles. The majority of sober scientists are in clear consensus....

Yes there is a consensus that the earth has warmed about one degree centigrade in the last one hundred years.
However, amongst actual climatologists, paleo and otherwise, there is not consensus that it is the result of man. More importantly there is no consensus on what the furture holds. And the science is beginning to point away from anthropogenic causes not toward it, or at the very least to vastly minimizing man's effects.

Absent God's widespread and recorded direct supernatural intervention on earth His existence must be a matter of faith.
However, to substitute faith in those areas that are susceptible to hard science is perfectly OK for individuals, if not wholly reasonable, but it is certainly not something that public policy effecting the lives of billions of people should be based on.

And its why I won't watch Mr. Gore's movie. I have listened to and read him enough to know that he cherry picks the facts to support his faith. When a creationist does that to tell us the earth is 6000 years old he is called a backwards, bumpkin of a boob and correctly laughed off the stage. When its done in the name of Gaia you get an Oscar nomination.

mud

BTW. I agree with all of the posts about being a good steward and I personally am against pollution. Who isn't? Unfortunately much of the worst environmental problems come from the poorest people merely trying to survive. That is a lot harder to solve than a few wealthy westerners buying a Prius instead of a Hummer.. The point is understanding as best we can what it is we're stewarding so that we can make intelligent and effective choices. Google Bjorn Lomborg for the kind of  environmentalist who is reasonable and still wants to save the world. I can't say I agree with everything he says, but he makes a lot of sense.

mia

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2006, 04:13:08 PM »
Good posting, Mud.

Hops

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2006, 05:07:56 PM »
Mud, friend,
I continue to disagree. As does NASA (and if they could speak, perhaps the drowning polar bears who can't swim far enough to reach ice floes any more, and for which the process of legislation to make them an endangered species has begun. Some are resorting to cannibalism.)

 http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/global_warming_worldbook.html

Global warming is an increase in the average temperature of Earth's surface. Since the late 1800's, the global average temperature has increased about 0.7 to 1.4 degrees F (0.4 to 0.8 degrees C). Many experts estimate that the average temperature will rise an additional 2.5 to 10.4 degrees F (1.4 to 5.8 degrees C) by 2100. That rate of increase would be much larger than most past rates of increase.

Scientists worry that human societies and natural ecosystems might not adapt to rapid climate changes. An ecosystem consists of the living organisms and physical environment in a particular area. Global warming could cause much harm, so countries throughout the world drafted an agreement called the Kyoto Protocol to help limit it.

Causes of global warming

Climatologists (scientists who study climate) have analyzed the global warming that has occurred since the late 1800's. A majority of climatologists have concluded that human activities are responsible for most of the warming. Human activities contribute to global warming by enhancing Earth's natural greenhouse effect. The greenhouse effect warms Earth's surface through a complex process involving sunlight, gases, and particles in the atmosphere. Gases that trap heat in the atmosphere are known as greenhouse gases.

The main human activities that contribute to global warming are the burning of fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) and the clearing of land. Most of the burning occurs in automobiles, in factories, and in electric power plants that provide energy for houses and office buildings. The burning of fossil fuels creates carbon dioxide, whose chemical formula is CO2. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that slows the escape of heat into space. Trees and other plants remove CO2 from the air during photosynthesis, the process they use to produce food. The clearing of land contributes to the buildup of CO2 by reducing the rate at which the gas is removed from the atmosphere or by the decomposition of dead vegetation.

A small number of scientists argue that the increase in greenhouse gases has not made a measurable difference in the temperature. They say that natural processes could have caused global warming. Those processes include increases in the energy emitted (given off) by the sun. But the vast majority of climatologists believe that increases in the sun's energy have contributed only slightly to recent warming.

The impact of global warming

 
Thousands of icebergs float off the coast of the Antarctic Peninsula after 1,250 square miles (3,240 square kilometers) of the Larsen B ice shelf disintegrated in 2002. The area of the ice was larger than the state of Rhode Island or the nation of Luxembourg. Antarctic ice shelves have been shrinking since the early 1970's because of climate warming in the region. Image credit: NASA/Earth Observatory
 
Continued global warming could have many damaging effects. It might harm plants and animals that live in the sea. It could also force animals and plants on land to move to new habitats. Weather patterns could change, causing flooding, drought, and an increase in damaging storms. Global warming could melt enough polar ice to raise the sea level. In certain parts of the world, human disease could spread, and crop yields could decline.

Harm to ocean life

Through global warming, the surface waters of the oceans could become warmer, increasing the stress on ocean ecosystems, such as coral reefs. High water temperatures can cause a damaging process called coral bleaching. When corals bleach, they expel the algae that give them their color and nourishment. The corals turn white and, unless the water temperature cools, they die. Added warmth also helps spread diseases that affect sea creatures.

Changes of habitat

Widespread shifts might occur in the natural habitats of animals and plants. Many species would have difficulty surviving in the regions they now inhabit. For example, many flowering plants will not bloom without a sufficient period of winter cold. And human occupation has altered the landscape in ways that would make new habitats hard to reach or unavailable altogether.

Weather damage

Extreme weather conditions might become more frequent and therefore more damaging. Changes in rainfall patterns could increase both flooding and drought in some areas. More hurricanes and other tropical storms might occur, and they could become more powerful.

Rising sea level

Continued global warming might, over centuries, melt large amounts of ice from a vast sheet that covers most of West Antarctica. As a result, the sea level would rise throughout the world. Many coastal areas would experience flooding, erosion, a loss of wetlands, and an entry of seawater into freshwater areas. High sea levels would submerge some coastal cities, small island nations, and other inhabited regions.

Threats to human health

Tropical diseases, such as malaria and dengue, might spread to larger regions. Longer-lasting and more intense heat waves could cause more deaths and illnesses. Floods and droughts could increase hunger and malnutrition.


This is true, Mud, and will only worsen without extensive international cooperation and attention to the economic needs of the developing world:
Quote
Unfortunately much of the worst environmental problems come from the poorest people merely trying to survive.

However, the United States is responsible for over 25% of the greenhouse gases output on the entire planet. If our country were one-fourth of the planet...but that is only the attitude of the engines that run the country (for now), not its entitlement.

I'm sorry you have little respect for Mr. Gore. I have a great deal of respect for his film and his commitment to this issue. I think it could be a good idea to see the film before judging his "cherry picking" so easily. It would even be good to separate political dislike from what he's saying, if you could.

But that would require seeing the film, or reading the book An Inconvenient Truth. I found it a compelling book that did not ring inflated or false to me.

Only one person's judgment, but my conviction in this matter is very strong. I would, in fact, stake life itself on it.

I do feel the earth is a sacred creation, and don't want to wait for God's rescue. This may be the biggest test of free will yet, so I hope there will be a spirit of love and cooperation as the policy and processes are beginning to.

I do believe GW will soon be accepted as commonly as the reality of cigarettes and cancer.

(Hope we're still both posting that day soon!) And in the short term, again, I do hope people will see the movie and decide for themselves.

Must run...more later,
love,
Hops


mudpuppy

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2006, 05:38:46 PM »
Quote
I would, in fact, stake life itself on it.


Just don't stake mine on it, please. :D

I hope there's no personal offense Hops. I haven't intended any, nor have i intended to sound Abrahamic. :lol:

And as an aside while I disagree with Mr. Gore's politics, if someone with whom I agree 100% politically had made the same film I would find it just as egregious and lacking in merit. (while I haven't seen the film, I have read extensive excerpts of the book, although not from cover to cover, as well as Earth in the Balance). In fact I'll wager, although I'm criticized for being unwilling to look at Gore's movie, that I have read a whole lot more stuff that disagrees with my take on this than the folks doing the criticizing have.

And for what it's worth NASA's climate science is dominated by Dr. Hanson who first sensationalized the idea of global warming and has continued to do so even as many of his research projections have been demonstrated to be wrong and he has been forced to retract the more outrageous of them.

Thousands of icebergs float off the coast of the Antarctic Peninsula after 1,250 square miles (3,240 square kilometers) of the Larsen B ice shelf disintegrated in 2002. The area of the ice was larger than the state of Rhode Island or the nation of Luxembourg. Antarctic ice shelves have been shrinking since the early 1970's because of climate warming in the region. Image credit: NASA/Earth Observatory

This is a perfect example of the disingenuous stuff put out by the advocates. It is true that there ia penninsula of Antarctica that has warmed and melted somewhat in recent decades. This is probably due to shifting ocean currents. But they neglect to point out that this is a small percentage of the Antarctic ice sheet and the rest of the ice sheet is in fact gaining ice not melting. And regardless it does not answer the question of whether it is a natural phenomenom or a manmade one.
Most scientists once said the earth was the center of the universe. I think history will show we are presenly in the geocentric era of climatology.

mud

WRITE

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2006, 05:46:09 PM »
I don't really want to debate climate change today ( my mind is on musical matters and I'm full of ideas and joy  :) )

But I think everyone 'cherry-picks' facts to support their particular argument or agenda. Even the most revered sources of information have to present the best of their particular perspective to acquire funding and legal status etc.

I liked Al Gore's movie and presentation style, and I especially like that he can answer questions thoughtfully and intelligently and 'off the cuff' which many public speakers and politicians can't here.

Certain Hope

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2006, 06:14:17 PM »
Mud, Abrahamic?  :P  :mrgreen:

Well, not to sound Mosaic or anything, but I would like to clarify:

[ Hops:  "I do feel the earth is a sacred creation, and don't want to wait for God's rescue."]

I don't believe that this created earth cries out to be worshipped, but rather to be tended. The Creator, on the other hand, does both demand and is worthy of worship. When stating my beliefs in my earlier post, I didn't intend to imply that I am an advocate of waiting  around to be rescued by God. Rather, I believe that that He already has offered to humankind a rescue from the real, true horror of ultimate destruction. Whatever happens to this physical planet won't make a bit of difference unless issues of spiritual rebirth are attended to. It's important to me to not give the impression that my beliefs have left me gazing into the heavens waiting to be swept away from all the mess. I don't think it's necessary to worship this world or try to make it last forever in order to take a responsible, active role in maintaining as much of it as we can have an influence upon.

Hope

Hope 

Hopalong

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2006, 07:40:51 PM »
It's okay, Mud. I do understand how you look at it.
I know you're very smart and have read a lot about this.

You are a very thoughtful logger, that's for sure.
I am a paper user with a fat carbon footprint I want to shrink!

It's back on the bus for me, and no more bringing home plastic bags.
And I need at least 6 more compact flourescent bulbs.

BTW, I don't think Mr. Hanson is responsible for NASA's summary. It's only one
among many respected organizations. I don't take just one as gospel (no pun intended)
but I am past the tipping point, where the critical mass of information is persuasive
to me.

I am not taking on the cumulative wisdom of most of the world's best climatoligists
but I respect your spunk. My brother used to share your resistance. He's shifting though.

I do hope that people will see An Inconvenient Truth and decide for themselves.

(tree)hugs to you,

Hops

PS--Hope, glad you're a good steward, bless you for it!

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hops

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2006, 12:51:45 PM »
(1:00 Eastern Standard Time on Air America) Richard Feely, an oceanographer at the Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.  He'll talk about our increasingly acidic oceans.   

If you don't have a station in your area that runs Air America, you can hear it online at:
http://www.airamerica.com/listen/

Hops

Mena

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2006, 08:00:27 PM »
It really doesn't help to have very liberal sources cited to "prove" points. Just as you might be wary of being sent to a Limbaugh site for information "proving" the errors in your thinking, I would not visit a site or listen to a station that was self serving and political when trying to bring scientific information to a neutral table.

Hopalong

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Re: 10 stars for "An Inconvenient Truth"
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2006, 11:10:19 PM »
I see your point. Well taken...

NASA and/or NOAA aren't "liberal"--they're government scientific organizations, but you're certainly right that Air America radio is. I didn't perceive the guest oceanographer as having a partisan concern...I think he's just worried about what's happening as the ocean gets hotter.

But people can find their own way to what is right, and some will work together.

I am very hopeful.

Hopalong

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."