Author Topic: Gaslighting  (Read 5655 times)

penelope

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2006, 06:01:44 PM »
Well they're younger than me (4 and 6 years) and are best friends.  So they exchange gifts every year with each other at Christmas, even though we're supposed to be doing a gift exchange amongst the adult kids, so that means every year you're supposed to pick a name and buy a gift for just that person (and their spouse) rather than have to buy for all 7 family members + spouses.

But my sisters seemed not to get this concept, and in addition to their chosen Secret Santa, they always get elaborate gifts for one another "just because" and proceed to open them in front of me.  Then they say or imply: pb, why are you so mad?  We're best friends, we can't help it...

Another classic: showers.  I hate them.  It's no wonder I prefer the company of males.  But everytime there's a shower, no one tells me anything, so even if I wanted to help I haven't a clue (not that I'm good at them anyway).  So, I scurry around, trying to figure out what I can do so as not to be considered delinquent and then the shower day will come, and sisters will have told Mom (or maybe she fabricates this):  pb didn't do anything.  She's Out to Lunch! (said as if this is a mortal sin)

One year, I orchestrated (tried to anyway) the baby shower for one of my Sister in Laws (SIL-R).  Well, because I was "in charge" my two sisters did absolutely nothing to help me.  Then, when it turned out to be a flop (we ended up just taking her out to lunch, the family member women), they got to chat about that.  They do it in whispered criticisms to each other, like it's supposed to be a secret, except they say things loud enough so that I can hear what they're saying about me!  It drives me batty, no kidding!  I felt bad for my SIL-R cause I know she wasn't "measuring up" either; I mean simply being associated with me made her their enemy.  It's no wonder she eventually ditched me and became friends with one of them (they're not as close these days I hear). 

It's really no wonder I've taken to riding motorcycles and working on cars with my b/f's over the years.  I really do enjoy these things, they are calming and serene to me.  Analytical.  School was the same way.  I could escape the drama and all the overinflated expectations of what "women" were supposed to do, and how they're supposed to be acting.  It's why I was attracted to Science and Math.

I think my Mom and sisters single handedly were out to drive me crazy - only thing they succeeded in doing, however, was making my b/f quite pleased that he got a "cool chic who is into the guy stuff."  ha ha

So maybe I got the last laugh, cause in a lot of ways I think my relationship with my b/f is better because of it.  They treat their husbands like children, I sometimes think.  There are so many Rules about what they can do and can't do: you can't stay out drinking with your buddies tonight, you have to come home and help me with the kids, etc.

Sometimes it's a wonder they can be around them at all.  They're like little Nazi women, I think.  Drives me crazy having to be in control all the time.  I like that men can make their own decisions, and I don't have to tell them what to do all the time.

There's a woman at work who drives me bonkers cause she told me this:  I have passwords on everything in the house (we assumed it was for the teenagers).  She said, Oh no, they're for my husband too.  I monitor how much TV he watches and what channels (she's the only one with the code and she changes it frequently).  She also said that they all have the same cell phone plan and she only allows certain people to call her daughter and son, and husband so all other calls are disallowed.  I thought:  what the heck is the purpose of this?  It's no wonder when her son got to college he went nuts and got into drugs.  With a mom like that micromanaging him all the time, he couldn't help it.  Kids (and adults) ought to get to make choices in life.  And if some of them are wrong, OK, that's how people learn.

But the weirdest thing about this woman is she is pretty high up in the company, I mean she's well respected and is very smart and capable at her job.  Her husband works there too, and is a manager and he's the opposite!  (he couldn't make a decision to save his life: in fact, he is often "out to lunch," - my description.  You have to explain things to him multiple times, and he rarely helps.  I've had to get his supervisors involved to get him to do anything, some times).

So I know this woman is reminding me of my own Mom and the dynamics in my FOO where the women all tell the men what to do all the time.  It's sad.  They treat them like helpless little babies.  The guys, of course, resent it.  But when they treat me that way, I just get pissed.  I know it's just a label cause I'm perfectly capable of organizing a party, if they'd let me.

The other crappy thing they do is insist that "I never want to have anything to do with them, or "girl stuff," and that I'm not their friend"  - and I'm  like, What?!  Friendship is a two way street.  Is it my fault we're not better friends?  Personally, I think they prefer it this way as it gives them someone to "hate" and pick on.  Everytime something goes wrong, they just blame it on me - well, if Pb was our friend...  If I was in their little circle, then duh, we'd be friends.  I don't know how many times I've told them: it's not my fault we're not friends!  I try!  whatev

It's an impossible situation.  I think it's why I have zero tolerance for drama queens at work.  I avoid them like the plague.  If they try to suck me in, I politely exit now.  I used to get all bent out of shape and tell them what they were doing, though.  Not pretty.  I know I was just reinacting all my FOO stuff.

pb

Certain Hope

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2006, 06:26:41 PM »
Man...  what a mess, Pb. I don't know what to think of it... whether they even have a clue about how their behavior really affects you. I'm sure it seems like they're trying to drive you bananas, because some of it is so "in your face", but I also wonder whether they're not just plain rude to anyone whom they can't control.

My mom has always treated my dad like he's a kid, too... micromanaging, controlling... it's really quite sad, but he still tolerates it after nearly 60 years, so I've decided long ago that it's not my problem to fix. So many rules within the house... no wonder he spends most of his time in the garage. When I've been there to visit, that's where you can find me. The only area of the house he gets to (almost) manage is the basement, and that's only because it's too much for her to keep up with anymore.

Tell ya what... I'd be hard-pressed to orchestrate a shower... never did care for those things. Now a garage party... that's a different story  :D

Ahh... if only they had the grace to appreciate our differences instead of trying to make us fit their mold....  not in this lifetime, I don't think.

It's so good that you have found your own sources of enjoyment and pleasure in the things you like to do. The world needs more "cool chics"!   8)

Hugs, Pb

Gotta check the ribs   :o

Hope


adrift

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2006, 07:33:26 PM »
Ditto on the showers.  I've given a few in my time, but doubt I ever will again.  I hate those kinds of things, didn't even enjoy my own. It's all about putting on a show and I hate that. 

As for gaslighting, not sure what that term means, but with my MIL--who I haven't EVEN tried to talk about on here yet because y'all would think I was making it up--- I either totally ignore her by acting like I didn't hear her, find something else to do, or answer "really" in a flat, monotone voice.

Adrift

Certain Hope

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 08:06:12 PM »
Hi Adrift,

  My experience with gaslighting (with ex-husband) usually involved fairly insignificant stuff... like he'd tell me he wanted me to pick up one brand of soda from the store, then when I'd bring it home, he'd swear he'd told me a different brand. It wasn't just that, either... see, he didn't get mad or upset, usually, he'd just give me this patronizing grin and shake his head, like "you silly, silly girl".
Another time after he'd bragged and bragged about this one dish he claimed to be able to cook, I finally asked him to tell me the ingredients he'd need so that we could try it out. (By this time, I didn't even care what it'd taste like... I was just sick of hearing about it. Any time I'd make something that was especially good, my kids would give me compliments and all he'd have to say is: "You've got to try MY lasagna..." or whatever.)  Anyhow, I did pick up all the ingredients for this meal, some of which were new to me... odd seasonings, stuff I didn't normally keep in the cupboard, and some perishable items which I wouldn't use for anything else, just got them special for this deal."  I showed him where all the stuff was tried to invite him to make this meal with me as his assistant. He ignored me for a bit, until when I said quietly... "some of the stuff isn't going to keep much longer, and I got it special for this cuz you said you were gonna make it" he snarled at me and said, "I didn't say WHEN!!"   :?
Another part of the gaslighting he did was to hide things around the house (I didn't discover this till much later). He'd ask me if I'd get this certain item for him (once it was an old camera). Of course I wouldn't be able to locate it.  Misplacing stuff is not something I often do, so it'd bug me and I'd hunt and hunt for the thing. Awhile later, he'd taunt me about it again, "So did you find it??"  When I said no, I'd get that same smirk and sad little shake of the head, as though I was a lost cause or something.

Gaslighting is a very unpleasant experience. I think N uses it as another one of his many tools just to keep ya off kilter. If you're interested in learning more, there's some interesting info online re: ambient abuse. In fact, I think I'll go google.

Hope you have a wonderful weekend, Adrift.

Hope

Certain Hope

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 08:52:32 PM »
More examples of Covert Abuse:

An example: He and She have kids. He counts on her to take care of their kids, and takes the time to do his stuff, but does not reciprocate: a. because he's selfish (does not want to help or do anything he does not care to do), and b. he does not acknowledge (whether only to her or also to himself) that she is the one who enables him to do what he wants. 

Another example: When "victim" is working on something, and "abuser" finds himself (or herself; could go either way) "stuck" with taking care of the kids, he does his best not to succeed (so kid keeps going to mom and disturbs her work), blames it on the mom ("It's not my fault, you raise her that way, so she prefers you!"), and also complains about the time mom spends doing "her things" (hint: I deem them unimportant) instead of being with him (abuser feels neglected because victim does something other than take care of him).

The main covert abuse here, perhaps, is the ways the partner manages not to be a partner, not to help, not to do his share, but in a covert and manipulative way.

And more:   Well, since my ex was a master at covert abuse, I know a few examples I can contribute. How about this: 1) The covert abuser insists on checking out and commenting on the good looks, sexiness, etc. of other women while you are out in public, right in front of you, as well as women on the television. Then when you say it is rude and unacceptable to you, says, "God are you insecure. Grow up." 2) At gatherings of his family or close friends, leaves you alone and seeks out other groups of people, while you are left to fend for yourself among strangers. When you comment on it, says, "Oh brother! I hadn't seen these people in years and you expect me to sit and hold your hand! Grow up!" 3) Always noticing little flaws in you, but never complimenting you. i.e. Subtle put downs such as, "Why'd you cut your hair? I liked it better before." or "You've got another cold sore, huh?" or "You get a lot of pimples don't you?" or "Why are you wearing a summer dress in the middle of winter?" or "Those pants are too short for you. I don't want you to think you look good, I want you to realize you look goofy so you don't further embarass yourself." 4) Pushes you away when you express affection. i.e. "Oh come on, enough already. Jeez. The honey is over." 5) Questions your knowledge about all sorts of topics, trivia, subjects that you yourself know you are very well-versed in. i.e. "Are you SURE you're right about that? I don't think so. I think you're wrong about that. You don't know what you're talking about." 6) Will never ask you to come over to his place. When you ask if he wants you to come over, says blandly, "If you want." 7) Acts annoyed when you call him at work. Yet will not hesitate to tell you how often his buddies, male and female, call him at work and how they chat all the time, throughout the day. 8) Compliments his female friends, saying they're "good gals", never puts them down. Never compliments you, however. Then when you ask for some type of reassurance, again points to your insecurity. 9) Often forgets to introduce you at gatherings so that you are forced to introduce yourself> When he does remember to introduce you he forgets to say you are his girlfriend or wife or significant other.

There are 2 pages of the above examples at http://drirene.com/forms/more_covert_abuse2.htm   courtesy of "Dr. Irene"

Ahh... I remember so well.  :P

Hope





penelope

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2006, 09:29:39 PM »
ick, that's horrible hope!

The sad thing is, even his friends (the ones with a conscience anyway) could probably see he was insecure, if he had to put you down like that.

bleh! 

hi adrift, sorry to hear about your MIL.  Nothing can shock me (my own mother writes letters to her daughter and son-in-laws that say "F***you all!") so, launch into it when you need to.

pb

Hopalong

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2006, 09:51:37 PM »
Adrift,
I'm sorry about your mother and glad you have made distance. You do not deserve to be hurt.

Hope, Neither did you. Might as well put your heart through a cheese grater when you're trying to "win" love from someone like that. What a JERK. I remember one of these from my own N...that cute thing of not introducing you or making clear you're a couple when you're out together. Seems like a form of subtle humiliation as well as commitment-phobia. Anyway, your ex is a thoroughly nasty piece of work and EX is the best thing that can be said about him.

Casual belittling. Says a lot about him.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2006, 09:59:39 PM »
oops.... Sorry, Pb... Hops.... those specific examples were all from Dr. Irene's website. Ex did all of those things, especially belittling me on the sly to my kids (everything was on the sly with him), but he always seemed to know just how far he could push it without crossing the line. No doubt he ogled other women, but he was quite careful not to make that too obvious, although I did learn some disgusting facts once he was already gone. Anyhow, sorry for the bum steer there... just wanted to give some more examples of some of the less obvious forms of abuse. I try not to identify too closely with my own memories, but sometimes they creep back into the forefront. Dear Lord Almighty, thank YOU he's gone!

Hope

Hopalong

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2006, 10:06:21 PM »
My bad, wasn't reading carefully at the end.

But I don't like your ex much better than THAT guy!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Sela

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2006, 10:08:18 PM »
Hi Pb:

Quote
they always get elaborate gifts for one another "just because" and proceed to open them in front of me.  Then they say or imply: pb, why are you so mad?  We're best friends, we can't help it...

They sound like a couple of six year olds.  What a show they put on, eh, infront of you?  That's so mean! 

I think I would feel so exlcuded and hurt until I decided they are not worth it.  Sorry for that hurt, if I'm anywhere close.  Then maybe I'd be tempted to totally ignor the whole display and enjoy myself regardless.

They haven't a clue what Christmas is about, it seems!
 
Sela 

penelope

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Re: Gaslighting
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2006, 10:41:22 PM »
thanks sela.

the worst part about it was Mom joining in.  She used to get better gifts for my brother's ex-wife at Christmas than she did for me.

I'd say:  hey, I like that shirt you got for M, you could get me one of those... (she'd get her 2, $35 shirts)

Instead, I'd get the el cheapo stuff off the 99 cent table she picked up at Walmart - things like:  a battery operated Energizer bunny and horrendous multi-colored socks that were two sizes too big that I'd never in a million years wear - just junk.  She even admitted she did this, but "I don't have time to shop for everyone!" was always her excuse.

mind games. ...it's enough to drive you to men!   :)  (not that I'm complaining)

pb