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How to heal NPD

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seeker:
Hi all,

I just gotta jump in and second Bunny's opinion about boundaries.  Sure, there might be extenuating circumstances as outlined above.  But I am not convinced...sorry!  :( The case stated above reads as convoluted and defensive and, at times, self-contradictory.  If one agrees that Bunny offers sound advice generally, enough said.  But Guest, you go on to argue your particular exception and then state doing so is a waste of time.  All in the name of turning the general rule upside down to justify your situation.  Which I still don't have down quite clearly.  

I was at a small party where the host's therapist was there.  It seemed indiscreet.  A standard question I ask I don't know is "how do you know the host/ess?"  She seriously stumbled over this question.  I wasn't exactly prying.  Her interesting response was "I'm glued to him".  Someone else volunteered the information later, which made it all the more awkward.  

I have met more than one psychologist that has serious boundary issues themselves and have to be reminded that one doesn't broach sensitive issues casually in passing.  So the fact that your newfound friend doesn't have a problem with it doesn't convince me it's okay.  I'm sure these folks are very nice people.  It's a matter of priorities, professionalism and yes, I would say ethics.  How could the psych maintain any objectivity?

Anyway, how does your husband, the patient, feel about these relationships?  If I had a problem with paranoia (Ns often do, IMHO), I wouldn't be helped by knowing my spouse is having coffee with my shrink.  Conversely, I would also feel uncomfortable talking with my wife's friend who offered to "have a go".  Another option the psychologist/friend has is to refer the friend's husband to a valued and respected colleague. Yes, there are lots of nice people out there and the psychologists can find friends who are not related to their patients...

My two cents, anyway.  Best, Seeker

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: Anonymous ---Bunny, what you say is fair enough as a general rule about someone being or becoming friends with their family members psych. But it isn't an absolute.
--- End quote ---


There is no explanation that a psychiatrist (or any other therapist) can give for this. They aren't supposed to socialize or have friendships with the client's family. It's unethical.



--- Quote from: Anonymous ---Bunny, is it possible that even psych's have wives and family, and their wives have family and have friends?
--- End quote ---


Of course they have friends. However their friends can't be the family members of the clients. Those people are excluded for ethical reasons.



--- Quote from: Anonymous ---What if a member of a particular psych's family has become close friends with someone who has a problem with a spouse with NPD? What if this psyche is willing to have a go? Would it be unethical for that psych to offer assistance?
--- End quote ---


It depends on whether the psychiatrist knows the person and her spouse socially.




--- Quote from: Anonymous ---Especially if that psych has some experience in the area. I think it'd be unethical for him to discuss personal details about the  therapy with the me, and inappropriate for me to ask. But not unethical to become friends in the context of the social affiliation and connection..
--- End quote ---


It is unethical for a psychiatrist to be friends with the spouse of a client. If you aren't the spouse, that is more of a gray area. It doesn't matter whether the psychiatrist would discuss the case or not.

I know you'd like to be an exception and you have reasons why it's "okay" for this friendship. Anyway it's not your problem, it is the psychiatrist's problem for crossing professional and ethical boundaries.

bunny

Anonymous:
Yeah, thanks bunny for replying. The friendship I have is I suppose primarily with his wife, so maybe I need to discuss this with them. It's a bit tricky, having zero to do with him I mean. His wife and I became friends a few years ago volunteering our time for the same organisation and now have a lot to do with each other. Anyway, I sort of see your point. But no matter, he's not young and I pray that the guy has a lot more years left in him. He's got a good heart.

Anyway thanks

Guest

Anonymous:
Seeker

I'm uninclined to answer any of your questions. Bunny objected to something in my post and generally, I said generally not always, I find the advice solid. I wanted to test bunny's opinion by exposing and revealing more of our circumstances, because I do mostly respect bunny's input here, particularly the economy of speech. It's very Ockham's Razorish, "It's is vain to do with more what can be done with less." I admire this tremendously in bunny. I didn't and haven't rejected what bunny said. I said maybe I need to talk about it with them all. That is a completely different position to where I was standing before I had this communication with bunny, so I've shifted ground. That's it, what happens now is my business.

After the unsuccessful attempt at denigrating and abusing me by the board-rager, (you know like road-rage) at the top of this page who seemed to not only thoroughly enjoy their rage and being abusive, and called me a liar and an N, I hope you understand that I'm on my guard. I imagine rage is better than sex for this person, and can see her after venting lying back calmly smoking a cigarette. So when I was reading your opening paragraph, which felt to me more like a critical judgement not really connected to the topic which I posted to, and then reading all your closing questions which were I felt peppered with suppositions, and I'll risk being wrong here and say, I sensed a hint of the same coming from you. So it's 'No comment' to your questions. Sorry if I am misreading the tone in your opening paragraph, but I didn't sense any understanding from you at all of what I'm about , so I'm going to go with my gut instinct here and assume that you're looking for a fight. If you're genuine and you've got an N in your life then you'll understand how serious an issue the actual post topic is for my family. Is their healing, help, treatment for NPD? It's not just a sports topic for those with nothing better do or who are so angry at the world they want to hurt just anyone. Hopefully you won't take offence at me telling you how this made me feel and if I'm wrong you have my deepest and most sincere apologies.
Guest

rosencrantz:
Maybe it's a shared British sense of humour, Portia - but you had me 'laughing in the aisles' there as I read your last post (and not at the expense of any individual either).

You know, Guest, what I find difficult about the posts you make is that -

1.  To my mind, you seem to have missed the point of most of the posts to which you have responded (negatively?).

2.  You don't seem to see the humour in the posts you read and you react to them, shall we say :  in a serious way (but it comes across as a put down).

3.  In fact, 'Guest' appears to present herself as such a cardboard cut-out of an 'N' that I wonder if she's real.  At one stage I felt that I could have gone down a DSM list on narcissism and checked off just about every one of the items off against the posts that she's made - are you just having a game with us, Guest???  Or testing out the narcissism that's been perpetrated on yourself to see how we handle it in order to learn from us??

If you're not having a game or testing, may I suggest that a little more awareness of your own actions may bring you a more positive response from the people posting on this forum (if you would find that helpful).

I have my own 'N' traits - and I know that when I get all 'hoity toity', on my high horse, all superior and 'knowing' that I've 'fallen off the wagon'!  :wink:  I think those 'N' traits were a gift from my mother.  You live with one, have to survive one, and you become one. That happens for spouses of Ns as well as ACONs.

The thing that saved me and made my life better was marrying a man who, although having his own N traits, had many non N traits, who gave me a kinder way of thinking about the world (and then a kinder way of thinking about myself) and finally led us both to discover 'abundant thinking'.  

I moved from YOUR FAULT to nobody's 'fault' and, following my own path, discovered that :

"Everyone is doing their very, very best - even tho clearly they aren't"

Think about it.  It gave me a way to understand my own son - and a way of handling the hurts that other people give us on a daily basis (which we receive just because, in our modern lives, we're brushing up against busy semi-strangers all the time) as well as a way of handling the frustration of dealing with people like my mother.

The people I love best in life are the ones who are honestly forgiving.  They are always happy people, they make me feel better about myself, I strive to do better for them, and I end up being 'just great' in their eyes.  And the results for everyone is always 'abundance'.  The closed-in ones give out sh**, get sh** back and end up with sh**.

I think that the forgiving ones are probably the ones who see 'half full' and plenty of cake for everyone.  The closed-in ones are the ones who see 'half empty' and 'too little cake for too many people so I'd better grab mine while I can'.

I think many N victims see that there's plenty of cake but know that the Ns want it all and have given up hoping for their turn!!!  

But it's OK to get and it's OK to give and it's also OK to give to get if everybody's honest about the deal.  THe problem with Ns is that they can't do any of that without manipulating the hell out of everyone else.
R

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