Signs of Thaw

[Sela]

Hiya Hops:

What I found non-adult was that she couldln't say, I am sorry for your loss.
I'm sorry about your friend.

Yep.  I think I'd feel similar.  Sorry for that too Hoppy.  I wish she could/would act more adult, especially in such situations.  I don't like to think of you giving up hope for that to happen.  It still could.  She's still young and will change as life goes on.  And it's hard not to feel kinda hurt by her non-empathetic reply, I bet. 

I do think you've done well!!  You're putting up boundaries to help keep yourself feeling safe, while letting her know that you care, want communication with her.  I guess one thing is to not expect empathy maybe?  That way, you won't be disappointed and may some time be pleasantly surprised?  I know it's not what you might want but I commend you for doing what has to be done.  Not easy.

Hiya Moon!  Glad to see you too!!  I'm away again from today for a few days so to borrow some famous words:

"I'lllllllllll be bawck!"

  Sela

[Brigid]

Hops,
I'm so glad that you and your D are communicating.  That is certainly a good start toward rebuilding the relationship.

What I found non-adult was that she couldln't say, I am sorry for your loss.
I'm sorry about your friend.

I wouldn't give this much concern.  She is still at that age when it is all about them.  Even though I have a good relationship with my kids, they still don't ask much about how I'm doing--mainly want to unload their problems so I can sympathize, or share good news so I can praise them.  Sometimes they are kids trying to act like adults and sometimes they're adults trying to act like kids.  You never know which age-level is going to show up on any given day.

I think it is very wise of you to maintain your boundaries and expect at the very least, respectful conversation.  She will eventually understand that too.  It may take until she has children of her own, but most likely she will get it some day.  Just remain a steady anchor of support and love, who expects to be treated politely and respectfully.

All the best,
Brig

[mudpuppy]

Good news Hops.

And I'm so relieved; I thought it was going to be another global warming thread.

mud

[Hops]

You never know which age-level is going to show up on any given day.

So funny and so true. Thanks, Brig, and for this too:

Just remain a steady anchor of support and love, who expects to be treated politely and respectfully.

It's best for me not to turn to her for empathy--as you said, Plucky. And over time, maybe she'll grow some.

Stormy, how did you know one of her tattoos was of an eagle? Actually, that one silenced me, and properly so. We were out to lunch when she was 19, she said, got something to show you, I think ohh-nooo, then she pulls up her sleeve and on the underside of her upper arm is a big fat eagle with two roses and a banner in his talons, and the banner says, Father. She looked at me and said, I miss him, and now I can hug him, and pressed her arm to her side. It broke my heart. So I don't dislike that one at all...how could I? Then later, on the other arm, upper side, she has a, ahem, nipple-flashing naked woman with a dragon, and a blank banner is in there somewhere. She said, mom, that banner is for the name of your novel when you finish it. So two of her tattoos are all about love for her parents.

I believe the skulls on her behind and the naked lady climbing out of a flaming skull on her SHIN (dumb! dumb! she wore one keesock all summer trying to convince her Grandma it's a fad!)...are about something else. Sigggh. But the large mandala of animal paws is about loving animals. I think she's done. I know a while back I said, and she knew I was dead serious, I wil go with you to a tattoo parlor right now and get one with you, if you'll promise to make it your last one. As far as I know, she hasn't added any since.

In fact, to show respect for her choices, and make it up to her that I once shamed her about them...I think maybe someday when we're together I will ask her to take me to one of those places, and get a little sunflower put somewhere the sun don't shine...

Mud, when the pond is almost dried up I challenge you to mud wrestle while you holler, I'm sorry, Al, I'm sorry!  

I'm not working because this is more...just more. Better get back at it.

Hops

[moonlight52]

Brigid,
Every word you wrote has helped me understand my 2 girls and one is thirteen I need all the impute I can get.

Really I have good relationship's with them.The older d had to move back home because of a surgery she went though (she's 100% now)and moving out soon with her roommate Sara in a condo.Finishing college

But if our older girl gets disrespectful she will go for a walk across the street ,there's a big park come home and ask "was I being a brat"and then we talk.

So signs of thaw are good.  My older d is 3 years older than hops d
And it is not easy to find the balance.Thank you for post Brigid very balanced as always.

All the very best to you,

MoonLight

[moonlight52]

HOPS     opps i hope i did not  hi jack of your thread Hops just tell me if i am out of bounds .I just am wanting to learn.

my oldest d at 17 came home with her nose pierced had it a couple of weeks and took it out and it closed up.

But she does have a belly button piercing ring with a small diamond in it also she does belly dancing.

Girls are something.

love to you hops

m

[Hopalong]

Moon, you can't hijack any thread I start, remember? I'm always glad you appear!
I'm glad your D decided against a third nostril. For some reason, my sweetie spared her face from extra holes. A few marching up the ears, but the eyebrows and nose and tongue so far made it through. I THINK she's done punching holes in herself.

I am letting that all go. And I'm glad. It was pointless. (I think the more horrified I was the more appeared, of course. Ohhh to have been Brigid now and then!). If she sees them differently one day, well, there's motivation to earn a good salary...laser correction is expensive.

I have thought about it a lot, though and, drumroll, I have a theory:

When I was her age I was of the Woodstock generation (almost went there with a girl from down the hall in my college dorm, but wasn't quite motivated enough). Anyway, some iconic images from those years (these aren't necessarily me!) were: peace (sticking flowers in Guardsmen's rifles at antiwar protests), love (make love not war), drugs (euphoria and oblivion--too naive to know the dark side of all that that was being born), rock and roll (more euphoria as well as rebellion). If I think of "sex, drugs and rock 'n roll" (caveat of course: a lot of it stupid and destructive), and peaceniks...the overall image I get is of a generation (unless we were soldiers) who were after PLEASANT sensations and would never consider doing things to themselves that actually caused intense pain! Yikes It was a huge deal to get your earlobes pierced! I did know many "hippies" who did carry a languid innocence...it seemed characteristic.

Now my D's time. Here I go...I believe that the enormous media saturation in horror and violence (it began with the brutal realities of Viet Nam every night on the tube, and has escalated to gore and violence glorified absolutely routinely in major movies...from Kubrick thru Pulp Fiction, and beyond)...anyway, I believe that some kids my D's general age have become so numbed and desensitized in a way that they are literally turning this violence against themselves...IN ORDER TO FEEL. Their circuits are so overloaded by the graphic and apparently entertaining gore in the media everywhere, that they have shut down in self-protection. But at some level, I believe some of those who tattoo and pierce themselves are literally trying to release pain by incurring it intentionally.

I don't know if this makes much sense to anybody, I could put it better but I'm sort of drained.

(I often rant about media though. Thanks for bearing with me.)

BTW, Moon, I think belly dancing is WONDERFUL!!! Every woman I know who has done it has just loved it and has come away feeling so good about herself and her body, no matter what shape she has. Huzzah.

Hugs,
Hops

[Brigid]

Moon & Hops,

Girls are something.

Boy, isn't that the truth.   The moodiness is enough to make you insane sometimes.  My son has always been a pretty happy guy and has never snarled at me, even when going through a stressful time (like right now--he's taking the MCAT exam today--everyone please say a prayer that he does well).  My darling D however, can be sweet as pie one minute then turn on you if you ask the "wrong" question, or if you don't know the answer to a question she asks that I SHOULD know the answer to.

As sad as I have been at her leaving in 11 days, I am getting weary of reminding her of what still needs to be done and getting the looks that kill.  I think it is God's way of helping us to let go and be just a little bit happy that there will be a period of separation for awhile.

The tattoo and piercing thing has gone pretty wild in our children's generation.  Mine have both only opted for a single piercing on the upper ear as their statement to becoming adults, but it seems that everywhere I look, even the most mainstream of young adults have tattoos.  I often wonder how they will feel about them as their skin starts to age and wrinkle.  I wish I could be the person to invent the process to easily remove them, as I think that will be in demand down the road.

Have a great weekend.

Hugs,
Brigid