Author Topic: I didn't ask to be a Narcist.. and I DO want to un-do what I have become  (Read 3711 times)

tavia

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It seems that most of the postings here are written by the survivors who have had lived lives with Narcists. Well, for a change, this one is written by a Narcist who has woken up from a nightmare of a life and who has made her own life such a mess and doesn't know where to even start cleaning up.

I grew up in a family without emotions. Emotions, as far as my father perceived it (and still does), is weakness. Being the first-born and the apple of my father's eyes, I grew up idolising him and sub-consciously, took on the traits I despised.

My first relationship ended with him cheating on me when I was away on vacation. I was young then, only 17, and we had been together for 2 years. When I went away for 10 days with my family, he cheated on me with his neighbour. I didn't find out about the affair until 3 months later, and all that while, we all hung out together in a group, and everybody knew.. except me. When I finally found out, I was livid, and very hurt. We tried staying together (he had stopped seeing her) but I was never able to get over my anger and I became spiteful and also very untrusting towards men.

My second relationship lasted about 6 years, during which, I met a Narcist, just like myself. It was hell. He was physically and verbally abusive and I stayed on, even though some part of me knew I should have left. To cut a long story short, I emerged from that relationship a bitter and twisted person and I took that bitterness out on the people I have since met/dated.

When I met my current beau, I was so far into the lies and make-believe that I couldn't get out of it. Everything was wonderful when we first met, I guess that was the work of the Narcist in me, and I wanted him to think that I was beautiful and charming, etc, etc, etc. We had a whirlwind romance and got engaged 2 months later. I remember thinking then, at one point, that THIS TIME, THIS TIME I WAS GOING TO MAKE IT WORK. Because he is really a decent and wonderful person. I knew, even though I was so twisted, that this time, I had something good.

But I was already deep in lies and I could not simply made what I had said before vanish. And he met some of my "friends", another group of Narcists, and how was I going to come clean and say that I had lied about some things?? So I took the easy way out. I kept silent about the lies I had told, and hoped that they would somehow go away and somehow, he and I can start afresh. Naive? Very. Selfish? YES.

Did I feel guilty then? Yes, yes I did, but with everything in my life, as long as he did not know, hey, it should be ok.

Then he found out. And typically, like what I had done with everything else in my life, I denied, I lied somemore, I got angry, I just wanted the confrontations to GO AWAY. I didn't want to face what I had done. I didn't want to admit that I had lied, I had cheated, I had hurt others to get what I wanted. I was SICK, in every sense of the word. Yet, while he was going through the torment, I didn't really feel it. I was more interested in getting away with things, in MAKING IT ALL GO AWAY. I put him through hell.

There were times when I questioned myself. WHY? WHY DID I LIE ABOUT THINGS THAT I NEEDN'T EVEN LIE ABOUT?? WHY?

I was so deep into creating a different persona, someone who was outgoing and popular and gusty.. everything I thought I wasn't, that to have that facade blown away was more than I could take.

Since learning about my own problems and how sad a person I had let myself become, I have done a lot of thinking..

No one has a right to do what I had done and get away with it..

I know that because my fiance has reached the end of his ability to tolerate my nonsense and we are breaking up.

Am I writing this because I feel sorry for myself? No, I am not.

I just want to acknowledge that I was wrong, and sometimes, when one has been so wrong, no matter how much one wants to make things right again, one can't.

I am sitting here writing this and everything that had happened is running through my mind and I know I have no one to blame but myself. Because I had so little self-worth, I created this person whom I wanted to be, but sadly, it is only after so much destruction that I have come to realise that all I did was for nothing.

Dr Laura (www.drlaura.com) said that one has to take responsibilities for one's own actions. We hurt and we get hurt but we must have the courage to acknowledge that no matter what has been done, all one can do is, from this moment on, live a life that is consciously-lived, and to learn from what we have done and not to make the same mistake again. She calls it "living a responsible life".

I have not lived a responsible life. Far from it, and I wish that I had the knowledge that I have now, because if I did, then I would have seen that the real "ME" is the person that my fiance loved. It is too late now because I have confused him so much that he has no idea who is me and who is the Narcist anymore.

Why am I writing this? Not because I want pity, but because I want to tell all of you who have been abused by Narcists that there are some of us who do at some point, perhaps even when it is too late, who do realise that we have been wrong and who really want to be different.

Until a few months ago, I didn't even know about Narcisicm. You may have suffered at the hands of Narcists but if they don't know they have a condition, how can they make positive changes in their lives? I know that it will be hell to try to even suggest to a Narcist that he/she has a condition, and to make him/her realise that will probably cost you more than what you have already gone through, but you recognise that someone needs help, and if you can find something inside yourself to make your partner/friend realise that, PLEASE try to do something..


reallyME

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From your candidness and honesty with explaining your life, I'm finding it so hard to even believe that you were or are an N, first of all.  If it's true, then I am sooooooooo glad you came to us and shared this.  I have a couple comments about what you said here.


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I just want to acknowledge that I was wrong, and sometimes, when one has been so wrong, no matter how much one wants to make things right again, one can't.

I will disagree with this.  You CAN make things right, in a sense that, you can get help through cognitive therapy and prayer, for your
life. If you come to a place where you can really SEE what you did that was hurtful (which it seems you have), the therapist can help you learn new, healthier ways to respond and act.

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Until a few months ago, I didn't even know about Narcisicm. You may have suffered at the hands of Narcists but if they don't know they have a condition, how can they make positive changes in their lives? I know that it will be hell to try to even suggest to a Narcist that he/she has a condition, and to make him/her realise that will probably cost you more than what you have already gone through, but you recognise that someone needs help, and if you can find something inside yourself to make your partner/friend realise that, PLEASE try to do something..



I can vouch for the "it will be hell to try to even suggest to a Narcissist that he/she has a condition...Jodi's response was that she was deeply wounded and couldn't believe that I, who claimed to love her, would hurt her like that, by labeling her.  She also then got together with her husband Bill to try and press legal charges on me for slander, later telling me "you dont' know how close we came to going legal with this, but I love you and couldn't live with myself and wake up every morning, knowing I put you behind bars!"  She then told me that N's are serial killers only.  So, you see, I was met with impossibility and backlash if I tried to point anything out of the obvious to Jodi...the bait n switch, double-messages, pride, manipulation, projection...etc, were ALL COMMONLY ACCEPTED in her family as she was growing up and even in her married family now.

If ya address the problem, to an N, you then BECOME the problem!

~L





Until a few months ago, I didn't even know about Narcisicm. You may have suffered at the hands of Narcists but if they don't know they have a condition, how can they make positive changes in their lives? I know that it will be hell to try to even suggest to a Narcist that he/she has a condition, and to make him/her realise that will probably cost you more than what you have already gone through, but you recognise that someone needs help, and if you can find something inside yourself to make your partner/friend realise that, PLEASE try to do something..

Sela

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Hi X:

Have you been diagnosed NDP by a professional?  I was just wondering because I noticed some of your words express deep feeling:

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When I finally found out, I was livid, and very hurt.

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but I was never able to get over my anger and I became spiteful and also very untrusting towards men.

My understanding of NDP is they are unable to express emotion clearly like that.

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He was physically and verbally abusive and I stayed on, even though some part of me knew I should have left.


I'm also surprised that any N would be dominated by anyone, even another N.  Again, what my understanding is that N's are so into themselves that there is no way they will tolerate others being in charge as they spend so much of their time doing the me, me, me thingy.  Are you certain you're an N?

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I emerged from that relationship a bitter and twisted person and I took that bitterness out on the people I have since met/dated.

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Did I feel guilty then? Yes, yes I did,

This just seems like far too much self-awareness to be anything near what an N might say.


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I denied, I lied somemore, I got angry, I just wanted the confrontations to GO AWAY. I didn't want to face what I had done. I didn't want to admit that I had lied, I had cheated, I had hurt others to get what I wanted. I was SICK, in every sense of the word. Yet, while he was going through the torment, I didn't really feel it. I was more interested in getting away with things, in MAKING IT ALL GO AWAY.


At first, this might seem to confirm your N-ness but on second look, to me it seems like you reacted the way lot's of people react when they get caught doing wrong.   Not everyone faces up to their behaviour, the minute it is exposed.  I don't think that makes you N, I think it makes you similar to a lot of other people.  The fact that you are looking at your behaviour now, and being so open about what you did that you see as wrong, indicates you are a lot less N than you think.  You may not have felt much at the time because of a number of reasons....eg.  Your coping mechanism was to deny and cover up which was overriding all other emotions at the time?

You're not the only one earth who has ever behaved badly.  

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I put him through hell.


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It is too late now because I have confused him so much


N's don't usually consider what the other person is going through, so it is said.

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There were times when I questioned myself. WHY? WHY DID I LIE ABOUT THINGS THAT I NEEDN'T EVEN LIE ABOUT?? WHY?

Another thing N don't supposedly do.  They are not generally famous for looking at themselves and reflecting or questioning their behaviour.  Everything they do is perfect.  It's always somebody else's fault....problem....responsibility.  You're just not fitting in the model that I've learned about  X.  Good news!!

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Since learning about my own problems and how sad a person I had let myself become, I have done a lot of thinking..

How did you become aware of this, if you don't mind saying?

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I was so deep into creating a different persona, someone who was outgoing and popular and gusty.. everything I thought I wasn't, that to have that facade blown away was more than I could take.

This sounds like you really felt bad about yourself, deep inside.   Lot's of people feel this way but not everyone creates a false self.  Some do though and that doesn't necessarily mean N-ism, if I understand correctly.

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I just want to acknowledge that I was wrong

Not something the average N does, from what I've heard and experienced.

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I had so little self-worth, I created this person whom I wanted to be, but sadly, it is only after so much destruction that I have come to realise that all I did was for nothing.


I have a sneaking suspiscion that you can and will learn from this experience.  Also, that you sound like you want to change this behaviour and I believe you can.  Please don't give up on yourself.  You're not the worst person on earth.  You've done some stuff that isn't great but you are taking responsibility for it and that's worth praising.  Good for you!  Do you have any plans to further help correct this?  Can you make amends somehow?  Will you consider going to therapy perhaps?

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there are some of us who do at some point, perhaps even when it is too late, who do realise that we have been wrong and who really want to be different

If there is anyone here who has not, at one time or other, felt this way, please stand up.

Welcome (((((((((X))))))))).  I see your post as very brave and honest.  Two more traits that most N's, as far as I can tell, do not exhibit.

 :D Sela

Certain Hope

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Welcome, Xanusis,

  I understand that every healthy personality has a degree of narcissism within, but NPD is much more than a high N factor and much more resistant to change. Awareness of your inclinations is a huge step in the right direction, I'd say, and I hope that you will stay and communicate here in the effort to see more clearly the full picture of both your history and where you are at present.
It's what you learn now and how you take action on that knowledge that can change your future, which is absolutely loaded with potential. Please believe that.
You sound very motivated and that's a most wonderful sign. Looking forward to offering you every encouragement and support if you're interested in working through this battle.

With love,
Hope

P.S. on edit... I meant to ask, what is the meaning of your screen name?

Gaining Strength

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I was so deep into creating a different persona, someone who was outgoing and popular and gusty.. everything I thought I wasn't,

{How do you do the quote thing?}

Xanusis-
In some 12 step meetings, it has been said that when you point at someone's flaw, you have three fingers pointing back at you.  But some eastern philosophers go further to say that those attributes you admire in others are in you as well.  You have seeds of being "outgoing and popular and gusty" existing in you.  You have to nourish those seed, in part by acnowledging that they are indeed part of you and you have to clear away the weeds so those seeds can row.  The weeds are in part those thoughts that tell you those attributes you want are not yours. 

Just claim the good stuff as your own - it is your for the asking!

moonlight52

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Hi X ,

I do not see how it is possible a true narcissist would say they are a narcissist it does not seem likely.
 (unless they are selling a book on that subject)

A Narcissist would not look inward and examine self.And usually N's do not feel guilt ,remorse or wanting to change in any way .Narcissists are always right period.

So to me X  I do not see that you fit the model of a narcissist.Have you been diagnose by a psychiatrist ?

How did you come to believe you suffer from NPD?Just from seeing
you examine your feelings and inner life suggest the opposite is true and that you do not suffer NPD.But I am not a Doctor.
I agree with Sela's comments completely.

MoonLight
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 05:47:07 PM by moonlight52 »

WRITE

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Hello Xanusis.

My husband, my ex is at a similar place of recognising his N behaviours ( grandiosity and aggression are the two outward behaviours, but inability to empathise and recognise when he's upsetting people and stealing all the energy from every situation are the underlying most difficult to cope with for people around him ) but he is ( sporadically ) facing the place of change.

Am I writing this because I feel sorry for myself? No, I am not.

I just want to acknowledge that I was wrong, and sometimes, when one has been so wrong, no matter how much one wants to make things right again, one can't.


well, to empathise with others and be able to make things right with them in terms of redressing a balance is different than making things become what we'd like them to.

We can only reach out to others, what they do with that is up to them, and a risk of pain or rejection.

You can make peace with someone even if they won't rebuild a relationship with you or trust you; people will forgive you. I have forgiven my ex.

Why am I writing this? Not because I want pity, but because I want to tell all of you who have been abused by Narcists that there are some of us who do at some point, perhaps even when it is too late, who do realise that we have been wrong and who really want to be different.

Change takes time. Are you in therapy? Lots of doctors now believe NPD can be tackled somewhat with anti-depressants and counselling for behaviour modification. If your response to pain in the past has been difficult for people around you then expect to feel somewhat cut off during the process of changing behaviour. Expect it to be a long-term commitment not a series of gestures.

Expect it to hurt- finding your emotions after years of cuttng them off is painful, accepting all that is lost but more acutely, learning to accept yourself as a small vulnerable imperfect thing who must grow to trust that people will not universally reject themself.

My ex rails against my 'lack of support' all the time because I won't accept his attacks and I am prepared to leave the friendship. But I am seeing positive changes in him very slowly, too slowly for me to be able to stay with him. It is also agony for him to face the fact he is a tiny child emotionally, vulnerability and intimacy hurt him so much.

In some ways N behaviour is a way to try to guarantee outcomes- in things where there are no guarantees.

We can't guarantee someone will always love us, or always do what we think they should, or never trigger our internal pain ( knowingly or not )

It's good you want to get help, anyone who creates a false persona or tells lies needs to address that first.

it is only after so much destruction that I have come to realise that all I did was for nothing.

nothing is for nothing, it's just- the outcomes are not always what we expect or would pick.

I don't know of any decent support for NPDs, other than find a psychiatrist or psychologist who understands the condition. There is much misunderstanding and misinformation, particularly on the internet, and as N behaviour is so destructive there will be a lot of people who will instinctively  ( and rightly ) not trust you.

You write very intellectually, and might be compelled to create an internet persona which gives you N attention but does not address change. It is easy to manipulate and lie on the internet, and to be hurtful. At least one internet person who has decided to become a source of wisdom on Nism is a self-confessed NPD on the 'psycopath' end of the spectrum.

If you're really wanting to change I don't think you will be able to do it easily without a competent therapist- even if like my ex you go to and fro at different times as you go through the pain of the stages.

You don't write at all about pain right now- but it is incredibly painful to change Nism.

This group is closed but you might get some pointers http://groups.msn.com/NarcissismSupportGroupMoralandSpiritualStruggle/

Good luck.



insomniac

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Hello Xanusis,

in my research into narcissism, I found this message board that is devoted to narcissists wishing to get better:

http://www.healnpd.org/forum/bbBoard.cgi?

It seemed to be really good.  Hope it helps!

Insomniac

gratitude28

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Hi X,
Although I do think you have been selfish and have copied behaviors of a Narcissist, perhaps, I do not think you are one... Ns are unable to see their nehaior as cruel and don't even understand what being mean is... You do seem to have empathy and understanding.
Many of us have experienced the same selfish behavior as you... I know I did for many years. And I was terribly mean to people who were nice to me. I am horrified when I look back at my behavior.
What to do???? Move forward... and realzing that you don't want to be this way anymore is a great step.
I also love Dr Laura, BTW, and I have learned a lot from her show.
Take care and let us know how you are progressing.
Love,
Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

tavia

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Hi all,

Wow.. I am overwhelmed. I wrote my piece because I needed to tell SOMEONE how I felt but I honestly did not expect people to be so supportive..

To clarify a few things (and probably to lead to a further discussion of my condition), I really am a N. You see, when I fianlly got myself to sit down yesterday to write, a year has gone past since my finace, M, realised something was NOT-QUITE-RIGHT (to put it mildly) with me.

We met online and had many wonderful conversations then, but ultimately, I talked about things that were untrue/half-truths/partial-truths/and some truths.. as long as whatever I said made me appear to be what he was looking for in a partner.

The first time it all went seriously wrong (because we were still ga-ga over each other before that and no one wanted to look at anything negative then), we were holidaying in Perth and after a couple of bottles of wine, he asked me about my sexual past. I had a close girlfriend whom I had admired and wanting to sound "cool" like she did, I borrowed her line and said, "Oh, I stopped counting at a hundred." (a lie). Thinking back now, I can see how callous and stupid my comment was but my group of friends consisted of a bunch of people who considered success (1) how much $$ they made, and (2) how many sexual partners they have had.

When we came back from Perth, M went into serious depression. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS WRONG WITH HIM, and thought that he was sulking because I had admitted to the fact that I had a sexual encounter when I was about 18 with a girl when I was in Melbourne. The thought that kept running through my head then was, WELL, IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, WHY ASK? IF YOU ASK, AND YOU CAN'T TAKE IT, THEN IT IS YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE!

Then M went to seek therapy. Now, I come from a culture in which if one has a shirnk, one must be MAD. So I stayed away, and assumed that the counsellor would sort him out. It didn't happen and I still did not even THINK that there was a problem with me. It was HIM. HE was weak.

Then things got progressively worse, and I agreed to go to the counsellor with him - just ONCE, just so that the "problem" he has could be resolved and I could go back to living my life the way I wanted to. At the session, I pointed my finger at him, i cried and raged and accused him of being judgemental and critical and weak because HE, HE had asked for information which HE COULD NOT HANDLE!!!! SO HE SHOULD GO AND SORT HIMSELF OUT INSTEAD OF DRAGGING ME INTO HIS PROBLEM!!

As you can see, it did not go well at all.

AND THEN!! I had carelessly left my email open one day and he read all my mails and didn't tell me that he did. So When he questioned me about certain things that I had told him before, I went into self-defense mode and became aggressive. I was very much reminded of what both my dad and my 6-year Ex (the other N, whom we shall call W) had done in the past - that was to grill me until they got to hear what they wanted to hear. It was really bad with W, because he was physically bigger and stronger and he would make me sit on the couch when I came home from work (about 2pm) and ranted and raved for sometimes, 12 hours in a row, or until I give in and admit he was right about whatever he was on about so that I could get away from him.

So I did the same with M, whatever he said, I agreed, or lied, or admit partial truths, etc, just so that the problem would GO AWAY. I couldn't understand why he was so persistent and I called him overly sensitive, I accused him of wanting to invade my privacy, that he had no respect for others... But, never, at any of those times, did I ever think that the problem was me.

I had no feelings when he was upset.. not even when he finally broke down and cried his heart out.. not even when he went into deep depression.. He lost about 10kg in a couple of months and I didn't feel ANYTHING. The problem was with him - he should get out of it. HEY, Accept it and get on with life.. What was the problem with him.. all of that, and more, went through my head..

But I am lucky because I have a fiance (we managed to hang on despite the almost-break-up yesterday) who really does love me and he hung on and eventually (after convincing me to see another shrink) made me go on this CORE-VALUE course, which all helped a little, but I was still avoiding talking about anything that had to do with my actions whenever I could.

It was Dr Laura's book, HOW COULD YOU DO THAT?! that finally made me sit up and look at what I had let myself become. It was the turning point.

To those of you who are wondering if I am here because I want to find another source to feed on, the answer is NO. Everytime I sit down and write (I have always been able to communicate so much more effectively through writing) it is a scary process, because (1) I actually have to acknowledge my past, (2) To put them down into words seems to somehow give them some form (which is a good but very scary thing), and (3) It opens up even deeper thoughts and feelings and questions, which I have always avoided, and instinctively I still want to avoid.

It is not an easy journey, by any means, and IT IS DOWNRIGHT SCARY. The child in me says, STOP, don't do it anymore because I am scared, but the adult in me says, GO ON.. you HAVE to face your own demons and after having wasted 32 years of your life, you can make a good life for yourself. I want to feel.. I'm still not sure if I can do it like so many people can, but I want to be whole..

So, yes, I can understand how Jodie said and did what she did because I would have reacted to the situation in a similar way.. it scares me now to even acknowledge that.

Thank you for the links, I will look at them and, and thank you for the encouragments.. It is a good feeling to know that it is not too late for me to turn around and try to be a caring person..

(BTW, Xanusis was a nick I created for my chararcter when I was playing Diabolo.. it doesn't mean anything, really)

reallyME

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Re: I didn't ask to be a Narcist.. and I DO want to un-do what I have become
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2006, 11:49:29 PM »
I still don't believe you are an N.  I know em when I hear and see em and you know and feel too much to be one

WRITE

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Re: I didn't ask to be a Narcist.. and I DO want to un-do what I have become
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2006, 09:40:42 AM »
I had no feelings when he was upset.. not even when he finally broke down and cried his heart out.. not even when he went into deep depression.. He lost about 10kg in a couple of months and I didn't feel ANYTHING. The problem was with him - he should get out of it. HEY, Accept it and get on with life.. What was the problem with him.. all of that, and more, went through my head..

it's quite scary to discover you have no empathy! In part because if you don't know how anyone else feels- how can they know what you feel...

My ex spends a lot of time projecting this out, I think it's one of his deeper fears, that he can never be known.

Some of the N traits like boasting income, sex, success etc I am sorry to say our society encourages. It seems easier to get people's attention and admiration to invent or exaggerate these things.

There is nothing like making a connection emotionally though, all the materialism and envy in the world doesn't come close to the fulfillment of loving and being loved.

Did you think about therapy?


tavia

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Re: I didn't ask to be a Narcist.. and I DO want to un-do what I have become
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2006, 10:26:04 PM »
Have thought, and still thinking of therapy, but it is almost impossible to find a decent one here - the last one I saw a is a qualified psychologist and cost M a bomb but it didn't work out, and M emailed her recently about what we have discovered about my condition (after he had researched tons of stuff) and we dont think she has even heard of this condition.

So will continue reading (have tons of reading materials) and talking to each other and hopefully, heal some more and get well slowly (but surely!)