Author Topic: narcissist as pathological liar  (Read 7621 times)

Gaining Strength

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2006, 12:39:58 AM »
Thank you Stormchild

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And re-imagining these crucial issues being addressed with your family isn't silly at all. It's at the very heart of 'visualization therapy' which is one of the most powerful tools there is for healing the past.

I am finding it very helpful and very powerful.  Thank you very much for saying this.  Your affirmation helps me and encourages me. 

At the risk of repeating myself - Voicelessness is the only place in my life that I have experienced support and encouragement and the only place that I have been able to get it at any time of day and any day of the week.  This encouragement and affirmation is the sweetest nectar I have ever tasted.  I am drunk on it every day. 

To read
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It's at the very heart of 'visualization therapy' which is one of the most powerful tools there is for healing the past
is so reassuring.  Thank you - from the bottom of my heart.  Your friend - Gaining Strength

Hopalong

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2006, 08:09:37 AM »
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I am drunk on it every day. 

I so understand this "falling in love with VESMB" kind of feeling.
I've had seasons of it too.

And I know the approach of winter, in which I usually translate physical cold and dark into psychic cold and dark...I dread much less.
After all I can start the day snuggled up with tea, my SAD light (shining off to the side of my laptop screen as I type), and lovely classical music, and write to my friends, and people who have heard the deepest and most gut-level secrets of my heart, weaknesses, warts, neediness and all.

It is a GREAT comfort and learning place.
GS, it's so nice to hear your hope here.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2006, 08:32:22 AM »
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the approach of winter, in which I usually translate physical cold and dark into psychic cold and dark..
Oh the thought of it....

I need to get my antidepressants in hand before the change of time.

This year I'm going to change my feelings of dread (waiting for the othe shoe to drop) that start at the predawn hours into thoughts of joy.  That is my hope.  I partised it last night as I was getting down a little and again this morning.  It is dark and rainy here and I must get dressed and go get my child at my mother's and then off to church.  But each and every day has a lonely dread to it.  So I am going to change this - I've fallen in love with the affirmations site jacmac sited yesterday.  This fall is going to be a significant period of change for me.  Thanks for the encouragement Hops.  I know I can do it!!  Yes I can - GS

Hope

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2006, 10:22:24 PM »
Hi GS,

  Just ran across this article and thought I'd tag it on here for the use of future searchers... (rather than begin a new thread).

I hope you've had a good day!

With love,
Hope

Honesty & the Truth Bias
by Sally Caldwell.

   The idea that people are who and what they say they are is merely an assumption. It's not only a common assumption, it's a necessary assumption. It's what some have referred to as the truth bias that operates in society -- an implicit assumption that unless we're shown some reason to believe otherwise, we generally believe we're being told the truth. You can think of the truth bias as a societal default position -- the way we'll normally operate unless we get a signal to act differently.

All of us probably know some people who are highly skeptical and cynical about life in general, but I suspect even those folks manage to muster some level of truth bias in their day-to-day activities. If they didn't, they wouldn't get much done. Just imagine what life would be like if we didn't operate with a truth bias, and how society would function without it. The sight of everyone running around fact-checking and verifying everything they were told is a bit incomprehensible. To say that it would be a society of paranoids with all of us at the brink of insanity would be an understatement.

In other words, some measure of truth bias is necessary if our society is to function smoothly and efficiently. It shouldn't surprise us, then, to learn that Romantic Deception is partly fueled by the truth bias of the larger social order. It was apparent in any number of the interviews:

You know it never occurred to me that anybody would lie like that. I can look back on it now and realize there wasn't much he told me that was the truth. But that didn't even occur to me at the time. I'm just not like that. I don't expect people to lie to me. I expect them to tell the truth.

-- Katie, age 19

I felt really stupid. I had no reason to doubt anything he said or did. We'd probably been together for four or five months before I had any hint anything was wrong. Up to that point, I trusted him completely. I didn't have any reason to doubt him, so I didn't.

-- Jerri, age 41

The thing about him was that he told me that honesty was something that was real important to him. He told me he'd been hurt real bad by this woman that lied to him. I believed him. It's as simple as that. He told me he thought it was important to be honest and I figured he was telling the truth. Boy was I fooled.

-- Ellie, age 33

How the hell are you supposed to know? Are you supposed to have this attitude that every guy you will meet is lying? You'd go nuts if you did that.

-- Lydia, age 40

Socialization
As much as the truth bias is imbedded in society, socialization is imbedded in us as individuals. It's the process of socialization that gives us the cultural knowledge we need if we're to function as a member of society. At times we rail against it, but it's with us, in us, and around us from cradle to grave.

As children, we were taught about the importance of honesty and why it's important to tell the truth. If the process works the way it's supposed to, we'll tell the truth because it's the right thing to do. In a word, we will have internalized the value. The value of honesty and truth-telling will become such a part of us that we don't give it a moment's thought.

When values are internalized, they become part of our core belief structure, defining who we are in the most fundamental and important sense. And our internalized values also function as our internal compass -- letting us know when behavior (ours or someone else's) is out of bounds. Unfortunately, our core beliefs have a way of becoming so important to us that it's often very difficult to imagine that we could even find ourselves in the company of someone who didn't hold the same values.

Much like the horror that the neighbors usually express when they learn that the man next door has just been nabbed for being a serial murderer, it's very difficult for well-socialized truth tellers to even contemplate that they could be mixed up with a big-time liar. And that's the whole point about socialization and how it gives rise to deceptive relationships. Ask me who's vulnerable to Romantic Deception, and high on my list will be the woman who was raised right. Show me a woman who believes in honesty and I'll show you a woman who finds it hard to even imagine that she could get mixed up with a big-time liar. Show me a woman who places a premium on honesty in a relationship, and I'll show you a vulnerable target.

This article is excerpted from "Romantic Deception - The six signs he's lying", ©2000, by Sally Caldwell

Gaining Strength

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2006, 11:56:43 PM »
Hope -

How interesting.  For so long these voices of the interviews echoed my own.  Now I'm somewhere between cynical and naive.  Now I ask myself in response to a person's self description, "What can I read between the lines of their words?"  I don't assume people are lieing but I DO assume that the speaker and I may assign different meanings to the same words.  This technique is one safety check to help avoid hearing what I want to hear instead of what is said.

Thanks for the post -

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I hope you've had a good day!
I have had a good day.  It has been a full day.  This morning I met with a team of Christian healers for prayers for release from my issue of shame.  It was a fascinating experience.  It was good timing as it came before my aunt's funeral this afternoon.  My aunt had some kind of strange version of narcissism.  She was always unhappy and made large demonstrations of this to get attention and to make everyone around her miserable.  The craziness was that she demanded attention and when she had our attention she then screamed and yelled at you.  Nothing made her more volatile than for someone to achieve something or to be successful.  Such sadness for her and for those she tried to make miserable.  I hope there will be healing for her soul and for us by her death. Just trying to make sense and resolution out of the pain created by such darkness - so difficult, so painful but so important.

gratitude28

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2006, 12:05:22 AM »
((((((((((((((((((((((((GS))))))))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((((((((Lily)))))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((((All)))))))))))))))))

This was a heavy thread all around. Thank you for deep insight and difficult shares. GS, I don't know what to add. May you all find some peace.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Gaining Strength

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2006, 12:25:25 AM »
Thank you Miss Beth -

I feel peaceful at the end of this day.  Peaceful and hopeful.  That is a very good way to feel.  so I am grateful - your friend - Gaining Strength

Hopalong

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2006, 07:05:17 PM »
Hi Hope,
Boy can I relate to that article. Thanks.

GS,
I'm glad it's over...for her, for you, for all those still amazed by their bruises. Have to say you sound so calm and wise right now. I think that's one of the unexpected blessings of our attendance or marking of a death. There's humility and an odd peace about it, I think. Reminds us that we all wear the same kind of sandals, if we're lucky enough to have anything on our feet at all.

Re. welcome to winter: I have noticed a DRASTIC change in my mood since I started again using my SAD light a few days ago. I haven't been this energized in many months. It shocks me every fall. So I wanted to mention it again for anyone who might have wondered. (It can trigger mania, so if you have BPD you'd want to stay away, I think. Or at least ask your doctor.)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2006, 08:09:57 PM »
Hops -
My Dr. recommended that I use such a light.  Do you recommend the type of lamp you use?  I could really use some energy now.  I've been off my low carb diet and I am really paying a price.  I need to ramp up again.  I get into these cycles.  As Ipro get healthier and stronger, I find that more of the repressed darkness comes up and as that happens I become less able to eat well and exercise and so I devolve down into a new low until I muster the strength to start focussing on the health again.  And so it goes.  This clearly won't be an endless process because I am coming up with the darkest stuff  but still the cycles are exhausting. 

In my life, I've been hit by narcissistic and borderline traits from too many directions.  I am in a lonely place.  But not a hopeless place.  A place of waiting.  For my entire life I tried desparately to understand what had gone so drastically wrong.  Now I have that answer and it is very helpful but the answer has not provided the great release that I expected it would.  I think it will come and when it does the wait will not seem so long - but for now I feel trapped in "Waiting for Godot" the interminal existential hold.

Well I've gone off on a tangeant as I work through stuff.  Sorry about that.  So glad to have people to talk to.  So thankful for this place. - Gaining Strength

Hopalong

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2006, 09:41:52 PM »
It really might help you, GS!
Not sure whether I got this one
(edit: whoops, forgot the link: http://alaskanorthernlights.com/

...or the Full Spectrum Solutions one.

But just google "SAD lights" and you'll find ordering info.
(BTW, the "Varilux" reading or task light is not a full-strength SAD light...)

Hope you can get one!

Hops
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 10:21:32 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: narcissist as pathological liar
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2006, 01:20:28 PM »
Thanks Hops - I need to get on the way with this. - GS