Author Topic: husband and daughter  (Read 11827 times)

nickyinstant

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husband and daughter
« on: October 01, 2006, 02:04:31 AM »
I physically left my husband of 16 years, one year ago, exhausted and weak.

Throughout our marriage I supported him and gave him almost  everything that he wanted and needed (just never, ever enough) and I managed my situation the best I could, being trapped by our business (which I run), our geography (away from family and pre-marriage friends) and my desire to do the right thing by my children (girl 15, boy 13)

i discovered one week ago the reason for all the problems i/we have had,  through research online. I cannot believe that i never researched our problems before, as i have asked the questions of him so often -"who did this to you?"  "how can you do this to me?"  "why cant you understand?"  "what is WRONG with you?"  I used the jeckyl and hyde analagy often, him being the most adored person in our town for his wonderful warm, friendly jovial personality, but to those who know him, deeply unhappy and never satisfied, with me doing all the work and taking all the responsibilities

What I have learned is helping me to come terms with my marital situation, and the reasons why our financial and emotional separation has not been moving forward,   

Where my real difficulty lies, and the main reason i started to research, is that my daughter has similar problems.  She has just turned 15 years old, and she, along with many others looks to blame her age and stage.  But I have known her all her life, and her age and stage just makes it scarier.  I have just returned from a trip with her, using both journeys as an opportunity to explore the possibility of her taking on board my issues.  She has been staying with her father for the past 2 weeks, and wishes to move back in with me. it is safer and healthier for her with me ( he uses her as to vent his rage, cos while she is like him, she rejects his behaviour and challenges him and their relationship is explosive)  The abuse I received on both journeys was horrible, and she dug a deeper and deeper hole, one which she can continuously emerge from smiling and happy and chirping about her hairstyle or outfit, but one which I find difficult to come to terms with. 

I just feel that reality is hitting me, and I am contemplating a future with pity and gulit for her friends/partners/spouse/children.  I just dont know if I should just do what I have always done, and give in to her a little longer, or stand up to her now, knowing that the mask (the faked nice bits) will be denied me, and she is still, only a child.

So much of me screams to turn back the clock, go back and do what i always did, as the worst is still to come (my husband is still supported by the business, still enjoys the status that is provides him, and the job title, which he cannot justify)  he still has much to accept -his third lawyer has just dumped him.  We live in a village and our friends are mutual/couples.  My children are used in the battle.

I feel much stronger than I have in the past, but still wish I could fix things - its what I do, but everything I read says it wont happen, and I believe that. But how true is that for my 15 year old daughter?  And how do I cope if it is true?  Therqpy of any sort, is thin on the ground where we live.

just been to gymn & theres a new machine - only used it 4 a hour as i started to feel sick....its good tho...it does everything...kit kats, mars bars, snickers and crisps

Hopalong

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2006, 02:26:06 AM »
Welcome, Nicky,
Are you saying you fear for your daughter becoming a person like your husband?

If she's 15, there's time, but only just, for intervention.

Do you have supportive family you could go to in an area where there IS therapy?

I am very sorry you're facing this, but in another way, glad.

In every respect, learning all you can about personality will help you, and her.

I have never searched for a book aimed at a child who seems narcissistic...does anyone know?

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

nickyinstant

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2006, 04:05:53 AM »
I fear for her because she IS like him, or at least she BEHAVES like him, and its not just puberty and teen stuff.

Does anyone know therapists in the UK - Scotland even -  who could help?

thank you for anything, x
just been to gymn & theres a new machine - only used it 4 a hour as i started to feel sick....its good tho...it does everything...kit kats, mars bars, snickers and crisps

Jona22

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2006, 05:01:53 AM »
If you haven't already found this site, try it.  It is for the UK and the best I have found.

http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/

reallyME

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2006, 08:32:50 AM »
Nicky,

I want to let you know that you are not alone.

My daughter is N'istic due to being born like that and due to my neglecting her for 3 1/2 years while I was caught up in codependent, online relationships, getting abused by an N myself.

Anna is 17 now and has shown N signs from very very early...for instance:

projection.  When I would scold Anna for doing something as a little child, she would then turn toward her sister and begin punching her.

entitlement.  Anna cannot understand why anyone would refuse to allow her to do whatever she wants when she wants to do it.  It's a sort of "how DARE you deny me," attitude.

double-bind.  I wanted to us Anna's video recorder one day to put a recording I did onto a videotape, so I asked her.  She informed me, "Not now.  I have other things on my mind, the least of which is you using my video player.  Besides, it's something only I can take care of cause I have to set up the tv, etc"

 Months later, when I asked her if she would put my recording on tape, her reply:  "You had your chance!  You had plenty of time to make that recording into a tape.  Is it MY fault that you didn't do it.  My friend has my videorecorder now, and I have no way to get it."

bait n switch.  One day, Anna stayed home sick from school, so hubby said she had to do dishes later on.  When it came time to do the dishes, I reminded Anna that she needed to do them.  Her reply, "I don't feel like it.  I'm going to bed.  I'm NOT doing them!  I'm going to BED!"  I suggested that she at least help me...she said "NO!  I'm going to BED!"

When hubby got home, he asked me where Anna was.  I told him in bed.  He said "why aren't these dishes done?"  I said, "she refused to do them!"  He said, "I'll go deal with her!"  Suddenly, she appears in the kitchen, sweetest look on her face that could melt butter, says to me "Mom, why didn't you tell me to do the dishes.  I would have have helped you with them."

You can see a VISIBLE SWITCH in my daughter even now.  As long as you don't get in her way and you let her hang out with her friends and boyfriend, go to school and do "her thing" she is fine.  If you dare to ask questions and she notices you are starting to CARE or SUSPECT anything, she will EXPLODE, begin snapping at you and demand that it's "none of your business!"

Interestingly enough, my 3 younger children do not cuss.  I have never heard them say a cuss word, ever...and Anna PRIDES herself on that and other things.  She is all about her image and looks, and constantly makes comments about how gorgeous she is and how I "just WISH you looked as good as THIS package!"

One day I said to her, "you really think you're all that, don't you!"  She said, "Think?  How can you DOUBT it?  I mean LOOK AT THIS!"  moving her hands seductively down her body from shoulders to hips.

So, as I said, Nicky, no you are not alone in this, and NO it is not just a TEENAGE STAGE...I've been told that too, and I do not believe it.  THEY don't see who she REALLY is. 

Even a cop once told her, "Look, cut your mother some slack or else you can come down to the station and sign over as an emancipated minor.  If you choose to live with this woman, you need to ABIDE BY HER RULES!"  (that was a cop I called cause Anna took away my telephone and refused to give it back, and I HAD HAD IT with her antics behind-the-scenes, and nobody believing me)

I have a feeling that "lil miss THANG" is going to "get hers" one day, when she goes to flash her feathers to the wrong type of person.  I don't wish ill on her, but God has a way of dealing with the "high and mighty" of this planet, who claim to be His Children.


~Laura



Certain Hope

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2006, 03:04:39 PM »
Dear Nicky,

  My oldest daughter also shows alot of N traits. She's 24 now, with a child of her own, and recently divorced after a very turbulent 2 year marriage. My other 3 children are 19, 15, and 10... each with varying degrees of self-absorption, as typical for any kids, but all very much capable of empathy and honest relationship. But my eldest... expects, demands, and will do anything to get... her way.
Always has been so. With her, it's never been enough... always " give me more, more" ... and always, always, when things go wrong, it's someone else's fault. Zero personal responsibility there.

Re: your 15 year-old, how does she manage to get away with this?
The abuse I received on both journeys was horrible, and she dug a deeper and deeper hole, one which she can continuously emerge from smiling and happy and chirping about her hairstyle or outfit, but one which I find difficult to come to terms with.

I am very familiar with the happy chirping which follows an in-your-face rebellion of the worst sort.... but does she face consequences for her choice to behave so poorly toward you, her mother? I know how difficult it is, but regardless of her reaction, you can enforce strong boundaries to show her that when she chooses to behave in such a disrespectful manner, she is also choosing to lose privileges, etc.  Please understand, it's hard on the message board to convey tone... I'm not blaming you for her behavior or saying that you are causing it at all! Just trying to encourage you that you do not have to be the victim of your child's abusive behavior.
You have the power in this relationship and she needs to know that, I think! She will continue to act out as long as it works for her... in other words, as long as she does not suffer any consequences for misbehaving. Solid, firm boundaries established in love can go a long way toward re-shaping that behavior. On the other hand, my oldest has always run from any attempt to set boundaries, so your daughter may decide that it's easier to live with her dad... but I hope not.

Hugs, Nicky. Please don't give in to the idea that it's too late. You have been through alot and I know sometimes it seems like a never-ending battle, but you can do what you can do to teach your daughter how you (and any civilized adult) expect to be treated. Having N for a father is not a curse upon her nor is it a free ticket/excuse to become as abusive as she pleases without any bounds. Stand fast! I hope you'll share some more here when you can and get the support and encouragement you need.

With love,
Hope

October

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2006, 04:46:21 PM »

I feel much stronger than I have in the past, but still wish I could fix things - its what I do, but everything I read says it wont happen, and I believe that. But how true is that for my 15 year old daughter?  And how do I cope if it is true?  Therqpy of any sort, is thin on the ground where we live.


I am not sure how much this will help, but here goes.  My daughter is 13, nearly 14.  Her dad left 9 years ago, but we have continued to suffer from his impact over the years, one way and another - too long a story for here.

Anyway, to the mother:daughter thing.  D is prone to Nish behaviours, but I do not think they are actually N.  They are because I am used to providing and serving, and she is used to being a child.  However, she is growing up now, and as part of that growing up I am starting to expect her to help me, and to recognise me as a human being, just the same as her, only older.  It takes a lot of communicating this message, but it can be done.  She is now, maybe a year or more after me starting this, just beginning to show glimpses of adult appreciation for me, and what I do.  I sometimes get offers of cups of tea, and I once even found that she had done some hoovering while I was out.  Not much, admittedly, but some.

I think that our Ns have had mothers who have allowed the N behaviour to go unchecked, and to some extent it is up to us to communicate to our children that we are not here just to meet their every need, but that there is a time and a place where it is appropriate for us too to receive love and nurturing.

As I said, it takes time, and it is not easy, but I would not yet give up hope for your 15 year old.  She has gone through a huge amount, and that is bound to take her time to work through. 

penelope

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2006, 06:07:29 PM »
hi nicky,

welcome.

I have to disagree with hops.  I don't think intervention is necessary, nor is it your job as her parent.  The only thing I believe you can do is teach her by example: be a loving parent, and a mature adult, and she may one day turn into the same.  If not, you will certainly grieve the loss of your daughter, especially if your husband is very narcissistic and you're worried she will turn out the same.

I'm not sure being N is any better or worse than what you've described your role was: being the codependent in the relationship.  You can rise above this, and deserve to, and I encourage you, although I think it will be hard without the support of a T.  That's not saying it's impossible though.  This board is a soft place to fall at times, and I've used it as such for a very long time, it seems, now.   But I honestly do not think I'd come as far as I believe I have (I have two N parents, and I'm trying to recover from the abuse finally at age 34) without my current therapist.

But back to your daughter.  you're afraid she's turning into her father?  I can relate to this, as I most certainly Did turn into my N father and was heading down the path of being just like him for many years, after I left home.  What made me snap out of it?  A lot of feedback from coworkers, bosses, friends..me not liking myself.  I realized my egotism was not my real self, and it was not who I wanted to be.  I remembered a different me - the child me.  And I choose to shed the introjections of my N parents.  Your daughter may get there, but it's not for you to decide.  Even though she's not 18, you don't own her.  It is only your job, like I said, to be the best person you can be.  That's all.

IMHO,

bean

Hopalong

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2006, 10:31:45 PM »
I see your point, Bean...thank you.

Hmmmmm. That's really something to think about.

I think I was projecting my anger and pain about my D onto Nicky's situation...wanting Nicky to intervene and prevent her D from getting to where my D is right now.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

reallyME

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2006, 11:08:25 PM »
I will be one of the first to vouch for Penelope!  She has grown even since I've been on this board :)  I'm PROUD of you my friend, Penelope Bean!  it is a blessing to know and grow with you.!

~Laura

penelope

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2006, 11:40:11 PM »
 :oops:

thank you Laura.  you are a true friend

many many hugs
((((((((((((((((laura)))))))))))))))))

pb

Gaining Strength

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2006, 01:11:28 PM »
nickyinstant-
You have received some good advice here.  I am proud of you for searcing for solutions and taking a very big step.  What you are doing is very difficult and it will be taxing on your energy and your spirit but it will be worth it in the end.  Meanwhile you must take care of yourself.  As a mother, you cannot help but worry about your child but I encourage you to follow your principles of parenting.  To love her - in action and in thought (not her unacceptable behavior but her). To continue raising her as you believe is right.  You will have to balance this with taking care of yourself because the path you have chosen is exhausting though necessary.  You must fortify yourself as though for battle. 

Remember that you do not have to take abuse from anyone - not your husband and not your daughter.  One of the things that you will be learning is about boundaries - how they have been violated and how to build healthy ones.  You will know you have made progress when you don't feel slugged in the stomach by a family members unacceptable behavior.  Be patient - it takes time. 

I was raised by an N father and saddly developed some N behaviors.  My mother was not able to help me recognize them or overcome them.  But I agree with what was posted above - as you learn boundary setting you can help set limits for your daughter, with love. This alone will protect you and will help her.  You don't have to teach her boundaries - you set them.  She will learn by experience.  There will come a time when she will see that her behavior is counterproductive.  If you have loved her (not her actions) and learned to draw boundaries she will very likely come to you for help - but not before waging a war.  She will likely be angry that she has these traits and likely will try to take that anger out on you.  That is where your own boundary setting will be essential for survival of you both.

Try out this web site.  These guys wrote a book titled Boundaries that is quite good.  It launched a huge business for them and they have a huge number of books that I didn't know about.  There might be something helpful for you here: http://www.cloudtownsend.com/

You'll find great support here at Voicelessness.  Come often  - Gaining Strength

Certain Hope

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2006, 02:39:46 PM »
Hi again, Nicky,

  I hope you're well... and wish you weren't so far, across the pond and all. That website Jona provided is very good, I think... took a look at it and found some wonderful articles. Also the Cloud and Townsend link from Gaining Strength is a great resource.

Just thinking of you and hoping you'll post again.

Hope


nickyinstant

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2006, 09:29:56 PM »
Wow! 

I have a lot to learn, and a lot, come time, to say to each of you! 

Good advice is an understatement, what a journey! :( :) :D :lol:

Fair to say, I am overwhelmed right now but really getting somewhere.

I am  grateful. xxxxx

just been to gymn & theres a new machine - only used it 4 a hour as i started to feel sick....its good tho...it does everything...kit kats, mars bars, snickers and crisps

penelope

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Re: husband and daughter
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2006, 10:29:09 PM »
There is also a pretty good article here written by Dr. G about the importance of giving your child "voice" along with attention and love  :wink:



http://www.voicelessness.com/parenting.html