Author Topic: sad failure feelings  (Read 8068 times)

gratitude28

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2007, 07:12:46 PM »
Hops, Sela's post was so wonderful (and validating even to those of us not exactly in your predicament).
I know my kids are a lot younger, but I have to agree with Sela on one thing...while mine behave perfectly in school and around others... they do all their "testing" at home. I am glad that they save that for us... I think, like Sela said, that means they trust us to try out the behaviors and see hat the reaction will be.
(((((((hops))))))))))
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

pennyplant

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2007, 07:33:20 PM »
Spent a lot of time in my car today doing various things and I was thinking about you, Hops.  This is so good that you started this thread.  There are many layers to what you are going through now with your daughter.  One of the layers I was thinking about is what she brings to your relationship by virtue of the unique human being she is.  And how it really isn't possible to keep blaming yourself for things from the past.  Our children come to us complete.  Sure, events and environment have an impact.  But children have all the ingredients of a personality in them to start with.  They are not a blank piece of paper.

Last fall we went to see our son in NYC.  I don't know if I mentioned here something I learned during that visit.  It was something that gave me a sense of relief.  We spent about three days together.  During that time I saw him do about six things that were pure Grampa Bill.  My father who died a couple years ago.  Who diagnosed himself as Asperger's Syndrome.  When I saw my son doing things that my father did in life, mannerisms, speech patterns, reactions, it occurred to me that it might explain a lot about my son and about our very difficult relationship through most of his childhood.

Even when he was a baby, I noticed he did certain things that surprised me and were different from the other children his age.  Troublesome things.  And I thought it was because I was a bad mother.  And actually I was a bad mother.  I was a good teenage mother.  But a very immature mother.

Anyway, he had/has a different way of looking at life, seeing things, behaving.  And to see him 26 years later being just like my father--something clicked for me about it possibly being hard-wired.  He spent very little actual time with my father over the years, yet they did have a connection. 

What was good about seeing my father coming out of my son was that it occurred to me he is getting comfortable about who his is with all his quirks.  He isn't keeping it under wraps like my father learned to do.  My father didn't start being his real self until he was actively dying.  I understand why he kept himself under wraps all his life.  It is not safe or smart to be "weird".  But what he missed by keeping his real self inside.  What we all missed.

Okay, now I'm getting to the point.

You have mentioned that you fear your daughter has inherited her father's N-traits.  I suppose that is possible.  But maybe that doesn't matter so much what specific characteristics she has or has not inherited.  Because she is who she is.  Who she is is not your fault.  Fault doesn't even enter into it.  She has value in this world no matter what.  You have value in this world no matter what.  So does your mother and your ex-husband.  This is a given.  Navigating these relationships is the thing that needs solving.

When I saw this fall that my son is who he is, and always has been, I realized that I screwed up big time by thinking I had to assess and correct and assign blame.  Didn't we talk about assigning blame on another thread?  That is where I screwed up.  Oh the unhappiness that attitude caused.  Yes, I learned it in childhood from my parents, peers, neighborhood, school.  Yes, yes, yes.  But time to cut it out.  Time to stop being tied to the past.

Assigning blame, taking on too much responsibility, this is harmful.  This adds an extra burden to the relationship.  Honesty is always good.  But martyrdom is not good.  And it is not necessary.

When I finally saw the light with my son this past fall, it was tempting to beat myself up about the wasted years of obsessing about my blame.  But the insight I gained also showed me it would be wrong to worry and obsess about that.  He doesn't dwell on blame.  He is ready to go forward.  Me too.

My suggestion is to look at who your daughter is with a new perspective and value what you see.  She is herself.  You are yourself. The relationship needs work.  But who she is and who you are need no work at all.  Only the work of acceptance.

It also occurs to me that this is easy for me to say.  I'm seeing Aspergers in my son, not N.  But I know your heart is big enough to value all the human beings in your life, N or not.  And perhaps it will turn out that your daughter is just immature and hurting.  I'd bet on that as a matter of fact.  But with your generous spirit, I think you are open to whoever she turns out to be.  It is just so very important to stop taking on blame and worry.

This is a great thread, Hops.  I hope it continues to help you feel better.

Love, Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

gratitude28

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2007, 07:45:41 PM »
Wow, Penny,
What a wonderful post.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Hopalong

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2007, 09:00:48 PM »
No kiddin', Beth.
Thank you, PP.

That was typed grace.

I agree and I'm encouraged!

Yes. I think my D and I can do it.
I just need better boundaries and that will help us both.

thanks for the amazing insights (yep, those genes are in there, I'm sure--and probably more than we have any idea about) ...

Sometimes I wish we could all interview all our ancestors. (Some at a safe distance.)  :)

thank you again PP for such profound thought and grace and such clear expression,
you sent light.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

pennyplant

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2007, 09:12:40 PM »
Aw, you guys.  You know, sometimes I think I'm out to lunch.  I can't say stuff like that to just anybody!!!  One of the many things I love about this place......

And now a round of hugs, my treat:

(((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

seastorm

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2007, 12:08:52 AM »
((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))




                               You are loved.

Sela

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2007, 10:37:18 AM »
Wow!  Penny!  That brought peace to my soul.

Thankyou from me too.  What a wonderful post!

 :D Sela


axa

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2007, 10:40:21 AM »
Hops,

I feel honoured to be able to respond to your posts.......at whatever level.  I find you so solid and generous with your thoughts and wisdom and just want to acknowledge that.

On kids.

I have a son, 22.  He is a lovely young man.  He went through a hard time when his sisster died.  Smoked a lot of pot, stayed up all night watching tv and slept all day.  I was patient and as kind as I could be but I saw that it was going nowhere.  I was also aware that he did not get the time and attention he deserved in his life from me.  For that I am truly regretful.  I feel he was at the receiving end of some harsh parenting from me and he was only a little boy.  I have talked to him  about this.  I have apologised and tried to show him I love and respect him.  His response is usually, get over it Mum, I have!

About boundaries.  One day when he was in his bad phase, I told him he needed to get a job since he  had dropped out of college.  he agreed.    I said he had to let me know if he needed money a day before he asked for it so that I could organise it and discuss it etc.  He and I both broke this boundary many mnay times.  And one day I thought I have to change something here we are going around in circiles.

I took him to the city early one morning so that he could look for a job.  As he was getting out of the car  he asked for money. I told him I had none.  He pointed out that he had no breakfast, I said, I know but I did call you in time for breakfast but you choose not to get up.  He got out of the car, slammed the door with rage and set off.  I had arranged to pick him up at four in the afternoon.  I knew he had no money. I knew he was hungry.  I went to work and felt terrible all day.  I was in bits. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done.

I picked him up at four and bought him food.  He was angry with me for days but it changed things.  He never forgot to give me notice and discussed with me any need for money he had.  He learned about respect because I had painfully enforced a boundary.  From then on he took me seriously, something huge changed for us.  He realised that I loved him, was happy to help him but I deserved some respect from him and I deserved to be heard.

Three years on, we are ok.  He has asked me for help with things and I have been happy to help.  He is very independant but is open to listening to me as he knows I have his best interest at heart.  This does not mean that he takes advice from me..... remember I am his Mom.

  I too have learned that it is his life.  He has choosen not to go to college I must respect this.  I feel he is underachieving in his work but that is my feeling, he enjoys what he does.  I have learned a lot from him and feel blessed that he has taught me much about love, myself and the universe

axa

debizzle

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2007, 11:47:00 AM »
Axa,

I have a 20-year-old son.  He has been expressing is feelings about college and how he is thinking of quitting.  
I just about had a heart attack.  He is in his 2nd year right now.  He really never liked it.
He does really well in school so it’s not his grades.   I asked him what the problem was.  Is it the college he goes to?
He spoke about joining the service.   He had always spoken about it all through his high school years. He spoke about the coast guard.  I on the other hand kept redirecting him back to college.
I sat one day and really listened to him.  I told him that he needs to do what he wants to do.  If he feels that college is not his thing then maybe he has to follow his heart.  I want him to be happy and college is not for everyone.  He said mom, Im only 20.  I can finish college. I will finish college cause it is something I want to do but maybe not just now.

I don’t want to smother him and make him feel guilty if he decides to leave. .  It is not my life it is his.   I want him to be happy with what he does.  I don’t want him to ever feel later on that he missed out on his hopes, his dreams or his adventures just so he could make me happy and out of guilt.  I told him I would never be disappointed with whatever decision he was to make. I just want the best for him.  He has a really good head on his shoulders and does things with a lot of thought put into it.

Hee! My baby has become a man yet my little boy still comes back sometimes. He called me last night.  Mommy, I cut my leg snowboarding.  Are you ok, I don’t know?  It’s bleeding. How big is the cut? It’s pretty big. Do you think you need stitches?  I don’t know, do you?  Would you like me to look at it?  I guess.  He didn’t get stitches, he got staples and whined and made ew noises all through it.   The doctors couldn’t stop laughing.  


The college thing has not been spoken of lately. When he makes his decision he will come to me to tell me what it is.  I will wait and respect his struggle over what he wants to do and where he wants to be then I will support him with  whatever it is.


Love Deb


debkor

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2007, 11:49:41 AM »
Sorry

debizzle is me debkor.  I use debizzle as an email and sometimes I mix up my name here.
Sorry,

You know I'm 50 now so I forget alot. heh,
Forgive me.
Deb

axa

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2007, 12:32:04 PM »
dEb,

I think this is real loving.  Listening, hearing, advising but not controlling.  They are little boys in mens shoes sometimes.  My son called lately he and his gf broike up.  He just wanted me to know he was really sad.  I loved that he did this.  Told him I know it hurts like hell and it feels horrible.  He wanted me to hear his pain and loss.  They were together a short time but it still hurt.  I am so proud that he called me. 

I think there is something about respect and trusting that the work and love we have put into our children will support them in their lives.  I know my son is a loving, respectful, kind young man and for that I am sooooooooooo proud of him.  I have seen him help people XN's son for instant when he did not have to .  He is a softie, not too much of one I hope but he does seem to have a good sense of himself.  People always say to me that they love to meet with him because he always seems so pleased to see them.  He is a big hugger, age does not matter to him, old ladies, men, gfs, kids......... I love how tactile he is.

Boy do I feel proud

axa

Hopalong

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2007, 01:18:09 PM »
Wow, you should be proud Axa.

How lovely lovely lovely that your boy is who he is.

He sounds just wonderful.
I love warmhearted people with open arms.

Bless ya both.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

debkor

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Re: sad failure feelings
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2007, 01:31:55 PM »
Hops,

You are a very smart person.  You are witty, funny, kind, to the point, teacher, I could go on an on.
Your post make me smile, laugh, think, feel, remember, your just an all around great person.  There is so much to you.  It is never ending you always have something to give.

Love Deb