Gullible

[axa]

Been reading about codependancy and how gullible co depdependants are.  Hit me like a truck.  I would believe almost anything XN would tell even though my gut was screaming LIES LIES LIES.  I so wanted everything to be ok.  Feel sick to my stomach at some of the crap I listened to and swallowed hook, line and sinker.

axa

[Leah]

Axa,

Gullible and Naive was my middle name!

Add that to Miss Sensitive

Truly, that's what everyone verbally abused me with ........ the everyone being verbal exchange with N people in my life!!

Call us 'Gullible' no more - our name is now 'Knowledgeable'

and Free!!

Leah xx

PS... have you got the link to the article that quotes codependents as gullibe?  as I would be really interested to read that.  Thanks.

[axa]

`Leah,

Its a book called Co dependants, misunderstood, mistreated byt Anne Wilson Schaef, just got it yesterday.  Very very interesting she talks also about not trusting our own persceptions..........GUILTY on that one too.

I was very aware of stuffing down my feelings, my knowing, in the hope t hat things would be ok.  I did not listen to myself.  I mistrusted myself, my truth.  I was afraid of being alone and I rationalised by saying I was being intolerant and demanding.  BULLSHIT.  I kept shutting out reality and hooked into a sick fantasy.  I do feel free, not all the time but getting more and more used to it.

Axa

[Leah]

Oh Axa,

The times I have beaten myself for not having listened to my perceptions and intuition

but then when I think about it all, there was no-one to talk things through with, no-one to ask questions

so I just tried as best I could.

Thanks goodness for the Internet, what a wonderful source of live saving knowledge for all !!

Thank you - going to go check out that book Axa

Bookshelves groaning again 

Leah xx

[axa]

Leah,

You say there was no one to talk things through with.  I did have people but felt unable to say because deep down I knew it was crazy and I knew I was in there.  I think this is very tied up with the shame.  I realised if I told my friends about XN they would say to me what the hell are you doing with someone like that.  So I kept my mouth shut.  I knew, I cannot blame anyone, I stayed and I knew it was mad.  I rationalised (bit Nish) I stuffed it down and pretended that everything was ok.  I took on the blame for being intolerant and not being kind enough to recognise that we all have issues.......... well there are issues and there are issues and I choose to look the other way.

I read The people of the lie, read excerpts to XN he agreed that he was as described in the book and I stayed with hiim for months after that.  There is something here also about me being right........ I took some satisfaction in being right.  I knew he was an N and I did not walk until months later.  Oh Shame.


axa

[Leah]

Axa,

Take comfort that you walked when it was the right time for you.

We can't go back and shorten the process, many times I have wished that I had have done.

My marriage meant everything to me, and my son.  For that reason I remained.

Now is the right time and we have a bright future, enlightened by the knowledge we have now attained
which will ensure good health and stature.

Leah x

[Leah]

Axa,

Thanks for the book info re: Co dependants, misunderstood, mistreated byt Anne Wilson Schaef - ordered a copy.   

Synopsis:

Co-dependence was originally used as a term for the disease that affects people involved in a close relationship with an alcoholic or a chemically dependent person. This book argues that in fact co-dependence is just one form of the addictive process, an underlying, generic, primary disease whose assumptions, beliefs, and lack of spiritual awareness are openly supported by the society in which we live. This book discusses the impact of the author's theories on the fields of mental health, chemical dependency, family therapy, and the women's movement. She also traces the history and development of the concept of co-dependence and discusses its often confusing, overlapping definitions. The author has also written "Women's Reality", "Escape From Intimacy", "When Society Becomes an Addict", "The Addictive Organization" and "Meditations for Women Who Do Too Much".

Axa, so glad that you mentioned this book as I have been somewhat confused with the term Co-Dependence, as I thought that the term was in relation to addictions etc.   And addictions, bears no relevance with any of the N's in my life, so confused to say the least.


Interestingly, also, whilst looking amazon, found that Anne Schaef wrote another book regarding the Co dependency in the Workplace ....
 
The Addictive Organization: Why We Overwork, Cover Up, Pick Up the Pieces, Please the Boss, and Perpetuate Sick Organizations (Paperback)
by Anne Wilson Schaef

This book shows how managers, workers and organization members exhibit symptoms of addiction - denying and avoiding problems, assuming that there is no other way of behaving, manipulating events to maintain the status quo. They examine how organizations can become centres of denial, confusion, overwork, covering up and picking up the pieces to please the boss.   Read the reviews, indeed a most interesting eye opener (though do not intend to order a copy - enough to read at present!)

Thanks again,

Leah x

[JayBailey]

Gullible.  Naive.  Yes, Axa - exactly that.

And you know the worst thing?  Gullible, and vulnerable, and naive, was what the N called me for believing anything anyone else told me, because they were not her so no matter how true it was, it was false. 

The people I could have trusted, I was made suspicious of.  The people I did trust were the ones who lied and hurt and manipulated me.  And when they hurt me, I was made to believe it was my fault for being so 'naive'.

I forget who (it may have been Julia Cameron, and I think she was talking about the denial of young artists) who coined the phrase 'growing up in the hall of mirrors', but that's very much how it was: nothing the way it looks.  Time for the sledgehammer, methinks...

(The hammer being real solid truth.  I don't know a great deal about codependency, but I am recently becoming more and more aware of where in my family there are tendencies to pussyfoot round the truth...complete denial around certain things...a tendency to use alcohol, probably not addictively but still not in a particularly healthy way, to smooth the rough edges emotionally speaking...people still denying their own needs, even as adults, because those needs were 'not allowed' when they were kids.  I'm not sure how this is related but I probably need to look into it further.  Thanks for the book info...)

[Leah]

Hi Axa and Jay,

We could write a book  "Gullible's Travels" 


On a serious note:  gullible, and vulnerable, and naive, was what the N called me for believing anything anyone else told me
 
That's what my N said to me.

Leah

[seastorm]

That is so excellent.... Gullible's Travels.

Before all the codependents get together to beat themselves up over being codependents, I think we need to be careful not to blame the victims. I am convinced that we live in an offender protective soiciety. I know this from working with abused women and children ( very few men crossed my path).  If they have to pack that labe on their backs as well as try to recover from blatant abuse that is often reinforced by our whacko society, then something seems out of balance.

ANYONE can be sucked in by a pyschopath, sociopath, or narcissit. Once it has happened hopefully one can be educated and supported out of the quicksand of victimhood.  Personally, I feel like a first class idiot and wimp for standing the crazy abuse for so long and desperately hoping goodwill and being nice would cntrol the situation.  Feeling enititiled to set boundaries would be good.

I just don't think it helps to grab onto the label and brand oneself with it. It is one aspect of a person only. This does not touch lots of other aspects. It is the difference between saying I am an angry person, or I am a person who gets angry sometimes. I don't want the codependent label to define. me. Language is powerful.

Sea storm

[Leah]

Hear Hear Sea Storm,

I work with Domestic Violence "Targets"   (we are targeted by them)

Survivors with a Voice can make a difference, is my belief.

ANYONE can be sucked in by a pyschopath, sociopath, or narcissist

YES, even a well known top Lawyer got sucked in - she has written a book.

Leah

[Hopalong]

What is the title of that book by the lawyer, Leah??

thanks,
Hops

[Leah]

Hi Hops,

Back in a sec with the info.

Leah

[Leah]

Hi Hops,

I know that she is a UK Lawyer, but I can't remember her name, and I can't find my 'sticky note' with the book info on 

Not much help am I ??

Leah

[seastorm]

That DOES sound like a good book.

I notice there are suggestions for quite a few books and articles lately. I am ordering some.

I like that language ie Domestic Violence Targets. I read an article a while back that talked about how offenders target victims. There is a quality of eye contact that women who were abused as children have. They dissoicate and the degree to which they dissociate is a clue to how easily they can be targetted for abuse.I forget the exact figures but women who were abused as children are about twice as likely to be targets for sociopaths in adulthood. When I read that I thought that was cruel of Mother Nature.

Sea storm