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marital therapy in the twilight zoNe

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Just enlightened:
Let it go through you otherwise YOUR guilt and YOUR need to be seen as a NICE person is HIS weapon.


Now Rosencratz - That comment was brilliant !

I wonder if you could expand your thoughts on this topic. I think you've hit on a central theme in the relationship between narcissist and insignificant other.

Yes!

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---

It's a bit like Guest's 'Big Jake' persona trying to shut me up by saying that my problem is that I always want the last word.  What do I do?  Give in to prove him wrong?  Patacake back by saying "No, YOU always want the last word"?; defend myself? (both times apparently proving him right).  The answer is to acceed.  Yeah, right I always want the last word and here it is. Boom!

Let it go through you otherwise YOUR guilt and YOUR need to be seen as a NICE person is HIS weapon.

Good luck to you.   :)
R
--- End quote ---


Yes, accede is an excellent strategy. In courses I did  "Positive Engagement" they taught this as a way of succesfully terminating useless arguments, which in, life we can find ourselves in with non-N's as well. They called it blocking.

It isn't useful as a far as conflict resolution goes though, so it's not a cure all. But hey, we don't need to resolve conflict with everybody.

Guest

sslichterj:
Before I type in a long reply, want to be sure I will be able to post..Next post will be for real...Sally

sslichterj:
Pandora: I am really new here. Found this site less than two weeks ago. In that two weeks I have walked away for the last time from a man who has been the N in my life for over 20 years.

I am the daughter of an N, but didn't know it. The last 20 years of my life have revolved around the N in my life, but I had no idea he was an N either. I have been in therapy for over 20 years. Have been to treatment center for alcohol and drug addiction (trying to cope with being hooked into an N). Have 18 years of being clean and sobor.  Have spent all but two years of the last 18 in some twelve step program or another. Have been in AA, NA, SLAA, AlAnon, OA and Coda.  Have done all of that trying to figure out what was wrong with me and why I couldn't live with or without this man that was literally consuming my soul.

Today, as I finally understand what has been going on, I want to say to you....run, run as fast as you can away from this man who is your husband.  Spend every moment you can spare studying and learning about what an N really is.  Do not delude yourself. In my own opinion, if a therapist has not said that to you, knowing that you are trying to deal with an N; then that therapist is harming you.  

Let me say as clearly as I can. There is nothing wrong with you. Nothing. You cannot change yourself in any way that will help your N to have empathy or become kind to you or stop trying to blame everything on you. My "perfect", always "right" N used my recovery issues and my wish to get well as a way to make everything my fault.  It had to be my fault, because he was perfect (with no addictions and no need for therapy).  He was/is just perfect.  

However within the last few weeks, I learned that he does have one "human" frailty which he apparantely has used to cover up any weakness he might  appear to have...he is a cross dressser in private.  (Let me clearly state, I have ablsolutely no problems with a cross dresser, none, zip). But can you imagine someone living with the shame of being a cross dresser (a deputy sheriff, no less) who makes it his mission in life to point out how sick 'you' are while he goes into his private room to put on women's clothes, complete with bra, wig and make-up?

Ah, a Narcissist unveiled!!  Please I beg of you.  Run do not walk.  I have given my entire life to this man that I adored.  No one, not one person helped to understand that this was a sick man, a very sick man, who would need to work the entire rest of his life to get well, and that even doing that, he might still be the same.

The good doctor who has given us this site, in my opinion, knows what this damage is all about and is doing everything in his power to warn us.  I do not belive, in my opinion, that he has given us this site so that we will learn to live with or stay with a narcissist, or try to get along with one.  I think, in my opinion, he is doing this because he knows how seriously damaging it can be for anyone to get hooked into an N.

I'm not sure what is going on in the world of therapy that therapists, in some cases, seem to be clueless about Narcissists. But if they are not clueless, which your therapist clearly is not, then I believe, in my opinion only, that he is guilty of malpractice for not taking a strong stand in making you understand the importance of leaving.

If a therapist was not actively encouraging a woman from leaving a marriage where she was being physically abused, would there be any excuse for that?  Then why should there be any leeway for a therapist to be wishy/washy about staying in a marriage with an N?

So, since he or she apparantely is more concerned with getting therapy money from you than truly saving your life, I will say it for him/her. Get out. Get out now. You have learned enough.  Don't hold what you know about him up to the light and try and "figure it out". You won't be able to. Just reading your post tells me already you are too kind, too honest, too understanding for him and that he is using all of those endearing traits in you for his own sick purposes.  

I wish you health, courage and all of the strength you will need to do what you need to do. And if you do leave...don't ever look back...Hugs. Sally

Anonymous:
Hi Pandora, I've gone back through your posts to try to see if you are having individual therapy. I found only one reference to 'therapists', which I didn't know if it was a plural, a typo or what.

You only ever seem to refer to marriage counselling. I wouldn't sell your marriage therapist too short yet, he sounds pretty open, available and sincere. He's confirmed your ex is an N. That's a start. Afyer all, his brief is really just the marriage, to help you both come to an understanding about what it is that you have. Then you and/or your husband can decide if it's worth working on or not. If after an exposure period you both (you or your husband) decide it's worth working on then off you go, marriage counselling is the go.

Marriage counselling is yuk work a lot of the time, so I've read.  It can produce lot's of hostility and accusations and lying from one or both spouses which can drive the marriage into new depths chaos. So some married couples are actually advised against joint sessions or marriage counselling completely. Especially when one party degrades and violates the others dignity and self-respect. Sometimes couples are recommended and better off with individual counselling.

If your husband lies and distorts history in counselling this is an indicator that he is disingenuous. If it's simply different perceptions of events, you'll know. If it's the former, then my guess is that the marriage counselling sessions are going to tie and twist your stomach up in knots and screw with your head, not his.

I'd discuss this with the counsellor, get his opinion. If he agrees with you too, that he believes your husband does do this then the therapist really needs to address this with him, his sincerity. I personally think you need your own guy. Your own therapist. Nothing to do with marriage counselling. Pandora's own private person, who's interested in Pandora's well being only.

So, I was wondering if you have your own therapist? Someone objective who is just there to help YOU work through YOUR issues. This forum is an excellent place to come to, but nothing can substitute a good, and on the ball, therapist for getting into the issues with you, at your level.

I look at a couple of responses here that are excellent from their points of view, but your case is different again.

It's a bit like the first serious job I ever had in an A La Carte Restaurant. Some dame who'd worked there for 5 years had to show me the ropes. She was also silver service trained. She showed me an told me everything to do with such deft precision, 10 minutes before opening time, and I was horrified. I thought, "It's gonna take years before I can do what she does." She could carry about 5 meals out to the tables at one time all balancing up her arms, 2 plates in one hand. And not miss a beat. It took me quite a while, but I did eventually get as good as her.

So I read some posts like that here. You're sometimes being told things by others what to do, and are being given advise left right and centre. Even from me. That's fine and good, but I just want to say, It's okay to take your time. If you ever sense a bit of exasperation in someones' tone sometimes, and I know I have, don't worry about it. And if you don't know what I'm on about, good. This is only a cyber forum after all, we're all anonymous at the end of the day. And none of us have to live with any of the fall-out of any decisions you make as a result of any advice given here. You do. So I'd weigh it up carefully.

It's all up to you, and you shouldn't feel under any pressure here, keep talking. It is in taking slow steady steps, with wisdom from learning and sharing, that not only will you work your way through this situation, but you'll ensure you won't find yourself in a similar place in the future.

If you rush off just on impulse from fear, then you haven't really learnt anything. And in that case run the risk of repeating history. If you rush off because of sound judgement and knowledge, you'll feel strong and won't cave through indecision. It can and may take time, but it's time worth taking. And my personal opinion, for what it's worth, is you need your own therapist. Thanks for sharing your story so far Pandora, and wish you well.

Guest.

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