To those who have thought of suicide

[seastorm]

There was a post on Jac's line that I found both interesting, valid and detestable. Given the context of the thread where people were posting to support someone in distress, it was jolting and like getting hit with a wet stinky fish. Someone started to label a person who feels suicidal as borderline and manipulative.

As a person who has felt suicidal in the past I recognized the clinical approach to someone in dire disress. Basically, I don't think labelling is helpful. It makes utter despair more manageable for clinicians but does not serve the person in distress. It is a way that the helping professional can categorize and distance themselves from such pain.  I can't think of any humane reason for it. It allows for a one up approach to working with a person ie. Im health and you're not.

When a person has been through childhood sexual abuse and the continuing abuse of denial in their family of origin, they are predictably traumatized. They have the equivalent to a GAPING wound. They walk around like that all the time, except for when they dissociate.  At times they are triggered into feeling suicidal and without support they will suicide.  Labelling them histrionic and borderline is horrible.

I would like to see someone who feels this way get the help they need. This is not always so easily found. That is the understatement of the century. I know many counselors but few who are equipped and trained to deal with severe sexual abuse and trauma. Most counselors are trained to work with the worried well. So entreating someone to go for professional help is not a cure all. It is downright dangerous in some instances. They may not get empathy and help in an emergency psyche ward. They will get medication.  The state of mental health care is abysmal. Good counselors cost a hundred dollars an hour and they may have to wait weeks for an appointment.

If someone has not experienced the piercing, overwhelming feelings of helplessness and terror that accompany feeling suicidal it is very hard for them to relate to the seriousness of the affliction. It is not something someone can talk themselfves out of or give themselves a kick in the butt over. It is a time to bring in the support system.
They deserve undivided attention. They deserve repect and caring. They don't deserve judgement. With love and support I got through my dark, dark time of feeling suicidal and it was here that I found that support. I almost didn't write that because I felt ashamed that I was in so much pain that I wanted to kill myself.
The tender souls that cared for me and responded with so much understanding and love carried me through it.  It worked.

Maybe I am an hysterical, borderline, codependent, over dependent, passive-aggressive, hypochondriacal nooney. Probably I am. But it doesn't help one bit to be  labelled that. That is like yelling at someone "YOU ARE MENTALLY ILL" and thinking it will help.

Those are my thoughts. I don't want some over-educated and emotionally stunted crackpot labelling me if I feel suicidal. What do the do at someone's deathbed who is crying and fearful? Tell them to pull themselves together and make them feel inadequate?

Sea storm

[debkor]

Sea,

Calm, Calm, deep breaths,  (((((sea))))).  Look again at what gaping wrote.  Obviously they have some very deep seeded issues.  They were a very good example of what Toxic really is.  Remember you can not get help unless you want it.
I wonder why let posted on this board to begin with?  There must be a reason.  Maybe they really need our help and it is their way of getting attention by pissing us off.  But I refuse to be. I welcome gaping.  Maybe we can talk about their problem and why they seem to be so angry.  I see alot of anger directed at us in their post. 

Love
Deb

[reallyME]

I have to admit that I also struggle with being a fellow-labeler.  When I first began to see that former people in my life actually had NAMES for their cruel behaviors, it excited me.  I began picking out the BPD'S the NPD'S the AVOIDANTS, etc.  It angered people and made them feel awful.

The problem is, I'm FASCINATED by the human mind and Psychology!  It takes everything in me to not say "oh they are a narcissist" or "they are so BPD"...again, just being honest.  It gave me a sense of having the control back over my own life, when I finally confronted a person and said "the reason you hurt me was because you are a narcissist.  I forgive you, but now at least I understand that YOU are also one who was a victim."  To me, labeling became a cozy friend, to help me find sense through the horrors I endured, though not as bad as some, bad enough.

My spiritual Mom has been awesome in helping me learn to walk in other people's shoes, as far as not wanting to be labeled.  I still have an urge to slap a tag on people I meet or read the text of.  It's very tempting for me and a definite struggle.

One thing, after the label, then what?  Then I get angry because 9 times out of 10, the N's of the world are not going to see their issues nor do anything to change them.  So, telling them they are Narcissists...what good did it do?  In fact, it probably was just another bit of AMMO for them to use on me later, saying "look at you! you are the judgemental one, Laura!  you have NO PROOF that I'm what you say.  I got tested and went to counseling and they found NOTHING!"  In other words, even giving it a label, if the person does have those issues, they will flip the blame back onto you, so what's the point, other than maybe realizing what the behaviors represent for yourself, personally, so you don't get caught in their webs.

It's a tough situation, but I'm just being honest with you all again.  I have labeled people and still sometimes struggle with it.  I'm just now starting to grasp why a person who is labeled, doesn't just run out and get help, believing that the label is true, just because the behaviors fit the description of it.

~~Laura

[gratitude28]

Sea,
You make wonderful points and we all need to give Jac the support she needs. I think people may have read into her post that she was trying to punish others through her statements. I hope she understands that hurting herself is giving in and not inflicting hurt on those she wants to feel pain..
Jac has been through more than any person should ever endure. It is horrifying that a parent can destroy a charge for any reason... no less for his or her own twisted desires. I think Jac wants and needs others to feel the pain she has been through.
Love, Beth

[seastorm]

Thanks for the replies.

I think you have a good point Deb.  Pleas for attention are covers for pleas for help. Maybe it is just an angry reaction that is the beginning of opening up The Chinese see recovery as a Dragon. The first steps begin with shaking the tail of the Dragon, and this results in anger and lashing out.

I wish I could be more centered and not react to anger. It is a complete waste of time. From all this hissing and reaction, I have learned that it is better to wait it out. It seems to signify that there are deeper issues afoot, and reacting defesively is immature and destructive. So I am learning something.

I label too but try to refrain when someone's guts are on the road. I agree that it makes things more manageable to categorize someone. But at what cost?

Sea storm