Author Topic: Walk a mile in my shoes  (Read 5978 times)

Anonymous

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« on: March 15, 2004, 07:02:50 PM »
Remember that song, "Walk a mile in my shoes, before you criticise and abuse, walk a mile in my shoes."

I've been thinking a lot about the heartless and insensitive people in and out of my life. And thinking about Flo's dad and how she is able to see the love he had for her, despite the disorder they now believe he had.

This is because I've just had my father-in law staying with me for the past month. He is such a dear sweet man. But he's been through his own hell and for a long time as a tyrrant with his children, one of whom is my husband. My f-i-l is leaving in a few days laden with books on Narcissisum. He and I have discussed in detail how he helped create my husband.

I won't go into too much detail, but when my husband was 14 my f-i-l was driving the car, backed out of their yard all packed up to go on holidays, f-i-l was fiddling with the radio and not looking at the road, driving down their road and ran into the back of a truck with a long pole hanging off the back. The pole went through the windscreen through his wife's brian. She died instantly. My husband, a boy at the time was in the back seat of the car with his younger brother, they were both unharmed physically. They all had to go through a coronial enquiry which was extremely traumatic. My f-i-l always felt that it was his fault. He cut off from everyone, especially her family.

My  f-i-l hit the bottle for 20 years, in a major way. He became an intolerant, abusive alcoholic. He let the panel beating business go that he and his wife had built, chased women endlessly, neglected his sons. My husband tended to and looked after his younger brother, emotionally and physically at school. This whole period turned my husband, who was a sensitive loving boy into a completely closed superficial individual with NPD. His brother hasn't gone that way though. He is a very gentle caring person who became as school teacher and has a great sense of humour
and is so tolerant and patient with kids.

My f-i-l isn't on the bottle anymore, and is the greatest grandfather to my children I could ever hope for. He's trying hard to build bridges with my husband now, and his support and understanding has been tremendous for me. If he hadn't shared the details of my husbands childhood I'd have never understood why my husband is like he is. This doesn't let my husband off the hook. But my understanding and compassion has grown with this knowledge.

So I think we can't always know why people are insensitive and abusive. We just try to make the best sense of it that we can, according to our limited knowledge. I think a lot of the time it's not even directed at us intentionally. It's their skewed coping mechanisms often. How they've learned to cope with what life dished out to them. My husband has copied his father's 'shutting people out' style whenever he's needed as an emotional support in our family, or whenever he needs emotional support.

I'm not as harsh on him now, as I know I have been. He just hasn't had it in him. So I think of this song sometimes when I have trouble dealing with his coldness. "Walk a mile in my shoes...."

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Anonymous

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2004, 07:48:44 PM »
HI Guest;
 That's quite an intense story you've shared.  I guess the best would be to be able to be compassionate and understand that the N's in our lives were abused as well and so deveoped this PD as a defense.

 Where I have trouble though is when a person like my mother, who obviously knows what its like to be abused and broken by the rage and non- love of an alcoholc mother,  has refused all her life to  refrain from dishing out mean, cruel and sometimes evil behavior towards her children.   If you know how it feels  WHY on earth would you do the same and more to your own children??? (my mother is not an alcoholic so even more so she is aware of her actions).

  Wish I could turn the other cheek  and chalk it up to her being abused as a child and let it just go its way but I have natural defenses that I (we) was born with that swing into action when someone is striking out.  So needless for her to act mean as her offspring are very nice people and don't deserve this treatment.

  You see, she has a choice and she has chosen to not get help (afraid of what might be uncovered) and then has chosen to continue to try to subjugate her kids.  There has been NO responsibilty taken on her part to say "I'm sorry" (unlike your father in law) and in fact called  me a mean, evil, and wicked liar when I confronted her ten years ago in the  Susan Foreward style presented in the book "Toxic Parents" .  She has been leery of me since and still blames me for having brought it up in the first place rather than acknowledging it so we could go on and build a relationship.   Typical to a nonrecovered NPD  I am to blame for everything because I wouldn't collude to pretend that the abuse hadn't happened.  When my younger sister brought up the topic years before I did she was told she was schizophrenic!  (My mother doesn't even know what schizophrenic is...nice try)   Grrrrrrr.     I'm glad your father in law is trying to change; its much easier to be compassionate with a former abuser when they are trying to make amends and are no longer throwing ammunition at you.  Surf.

Anonymous

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2004, 12:19:26 AM »
Yeah Surf, I know where you're coming from and I tend to agree with you, a lot sort of. Seems like a contradiction doesn't it. But the thing that worked for me with my husband and parent was, when I no longer needed to have THEM understand ME. This has taken a long time and been a very freeing lesson in alot of ways. I had to accept that they will probably never say sorry for lot of stuff.

I used to waste ans spend a lot of my limited supply of emotional energy trying so hard to get these people to understand me and my point of view. It was completely futile and a lost cause.

Initially when I realised that I was wasting my time I threw the baby out with the bath water. I misunderstood it for rejection of me as a perso. But funnily enough - these people still wanted me in their lives, even when I was no longer a supply source. Why? What supply was I meeting when I was totally withdrawn?

I eeventually came to accept them like I do one of my best friends who has marijuana induced schizophrenia. I accept her and her strangeness, but I have limited expectations of her. I have another friend with a type of BPD, I have limited expectations of her too.

Sounds like all my friends are weird doesn't it. They're not. I have some healthy friends and family too. I have just learned not too expect too much from certain people. It's easier and works for me. Thanks for your response.

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phoenix

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2004, 01:03:19 AM »
bye

Anonymous

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2004, 02:33:08 AM »
Unlike you Pheonix, I didn't have an over-developed sense of compassion. Mine was need. I may have mistaken it for something nobler. But I needed to feel loved and have a loving relationship with certain people in my life, parents, husband and friends. I had the illusion going on in my head that I was entitled and deserved to have unconditional love from these people.

But it/life didn't happen the way I wanted/needed. I had relationships that lacked so much in the way of real love. Physical/mental abuse, starvation (I mean food), fighting a lunatic with an axe at 12, I won't go on, but I mean serious environmental problems.

As a child I read a lot, and when I grew up I thought I'd find my prince charming and life would be wonderful when I was an adult, cause I'd be in control.

In my relationships I saw love like, say for example, the numbers 1% to 100%. So if someone only gave 20% I'd go out of my way and give/provide the other missing 80% to make 100% perfect scenario. Do you see what I mean?

I was usally always the one giving way more than the other person, which was to try to make the relationship fit my illusion. I don't do that anymore. If someone gives 20%, I give 20%. If they give 50% I give 50%. And so on.  

This has been such a release for me, and also because the illusions just had to go eventually, and be replaced with truth. Whatever catastrophies I had to have along the way to learn this lesson were well worth it. I feel I have a much firmer grasp of reality in my relationships, and I'm on solid ground. I've got some really sound healthy happy relationships, not necessarily with those I first desired them to be with.

The ones I have with husband and parent are very measured. I don't have great expectations of them anymore, or place great demands on myself re them, or give too much of myself to them either. This leaves me free to have other more meaningful relationships, and I don't burn with resentment anymore. I think we are all much happier, my expectations drove everyone including myself up the wall. They just couldn't give what I wanted/needed.

Thanks for responding Pheonix.

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surf14

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2004, 08:55:38 PM »
Sounds Guest like you've worked things out pretty well for yourself; that your interaction with others is measured and self protective.  Nice not to be codependent.  I can relate to Phoenix's sensitivity; I'm alot like that as well but am a bit more evenly balanced in recent years.  I guess that's what hardship like divorce and other things rearrange for you.  Surf
"In life pain is inevitable, suffering is optional".

seeker

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2004, 12:10:39 PM »
Hi all,

I can really relate to Phoenix's post about over-compassion.  At one of my workplaces (which was decidedly N in culture) I would go out of my way to be friendly and support the people who were politically "out".  I think I identified with the underdog (hmmm...).  These were nice, competent people.  But they didn't fit the image of young, hip, cool.  They were not "wonder boys" rising to VP at the age of 25.  Experience wasn't valued, cool was.  It hurt me politically to be seen with a couple of them. But it was awful to know they were being shunned.  I can't stand that kind of behavior.

So I still need to learn what is my problem and what isn't.  I also learned the hard way that that type of environment isn't for me, even though there was a certain amount of glamour and fun involved.  

Seeker

surf14

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2004, 12:25:01 PM »
Yes seeker; I feel like I'm cut from the same mold.  Can't bear to see someone ostraciized.  Surf
"In life pain is inevitable, suffering is optional".

surf14

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2004, 05:12:05 PM »
AMEN!  Surf
"In life pain is inevitable, suffering is optional".

Anonymous

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2004, 05:40:52 AM »
Quote from: seeker
Hi all,

I can really relate to Phoenix's post about over-compassion.  At one of my workplaces (which was decidedly N in culture) I would go out of my way to be friendly and support the people who were politically "out".  I think I identified with the underdog (hmmm...).  These were nice, competent people.  But they didn't fit the image of young, hip, cool.  They were not "wonder boys" rising to VP at the age of 25.  Experience wasn't valued, cool was.  It hurt me politically to be seen with a couple of them. But it was awful to know they were being shunned.  I can't stand that kind of behavior.

So I still need to learn what is my problem and what isn't.  I also learned the hard way that that type of environment isn't for me, even though there was a certain amount of glamour and fun involved.  

Seeker


Don't you just hate this form of social control in the workplace or anywhere else. I once made friends with the wierdest girl, or that's how she was perceived by the group I was in. She looked and dressed decidedly different, a bit like a man, she smoked in a totally non-smoking circle, and she had hair down below her bum. She was a bit in-your-face and combatitive during discussions. She was shunned from the start by everybody in this group, so I, as usual, siddled up to make her feel comfortable, (I find it hard to see people feeling uncomfortable, I always feel it's my job to fix it, or I used to anyway) and found I made friends with her.

I was one of those kids who always wanted to bring every flea-bitten mangey mut home. She became one of my nearest and dearest friends. I lost a few superficial ones at the time as a result  too. But it was well worth it.  She has such a deep caring soul and heart, and is one of the gentlest people I know.

She dressed like that, why? I found out later. She'd been terribly sexually abused as a child. Really bad stuff. Why the seemingly ridiculous long hair? That made sense later too. She'd had her head ritually shaved by her mother as a child, in the hopes that it would make her look more unattractive to her father who raped her as often as he was home. So much I learned about her and from her.

She has the patience of a saint with my children, and all children. She can't conceive, she's been damaged to badly by objects being inserted as a kid. She knits manically, and has knitted my whole family fair-aisle jumpers. I really love her, she's such a beautiful person.

She eventually married a guy who had also been sexually abused as a child, and they now run a shelter for homeless men. Before I met her, she'd been a heroin addict, a prostitute and a petty thief to support her habit. A priest saved her when she early OD'd and took her in to a program. She's now a fully paid up member of the community, giving a lot back because of that priest. I am so glad I got to know her and didn't let those stupid social controls rob me from making friends with her.

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rosencrantz

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2004, 06:39:41 AM »
People are afraid of what's 'different' and so express that fear in shunning someone else.  But the abused recognise the abused as 'the same'.  It's the Old Boys Network in reverse.  Just like single new dads find it difficult to integrate into new mums coffee groups.  "Different, not the same, don't understand, threat".
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

seeker

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2004, 11:57:15 AM »
So...okay...maybe this is an obvious childish question:

Why why why is it that the mean snotty people are the ones who are revered and sought after, and nice ones are devalued and tossed away?  It's a part of human nature that I do recognize but cannot accept.  I just keep on resisting this and also get frustrated that there seems to be no rewards in being nice   :( .  OK, I feel very unhappy about this.   :x

I am watching my very friendly free spirited child at school get shunned while other kids happily dump away.  Why does there have to be an omega wolf, a whipping boy?  As someone on another post said, you teach people how to treat you...so how is my child teaching these other kids?

Please help me with this...Seeker

Anonymous

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2004, 12:06:26 AM »
Quote from: seeker
So...okay...maybe this is an obvious childish question:

Why why why is it that the mean snotty people are the ones who are revered and sought after, and nice ones are devalued and tossed away?  It's a part of human nature that I do recognize but cannot accept.  I just keep on resisting this and also get frustrated that there seems to be no rewards in being nice   :( .  OK, I feel very unhappy about this.   :x

I am watching my very friendly free spirited child at school get shunned while other kids happily dump away.  Why does there have to be an omega wolf, a whipping boy?  As someone on another post said, you teach people how to treat you...so how is my child teaching these other kids?

Please help me with this...Seeker

Anonymous

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2004, 12:37:24 AM »
That was a blooper, sorry, I was wanting to reply. Hi Seeker, your post sparked a thought, a memory of something I read recently about why the abused become abusers.

It was so simple yet profound. Wish I could remember where I read it. It went like this.

Children who are living in a househild with aggression and violence are constantly observing their environment and learning from it. All children are, even children in healthy homes.

But children in violent environments, more so. So where there is a more violent or aggressive parent they see these people as stronger, superior in some way, and somewhere in the child's mind, it then becomes replaced with 'right.' The aggressive parent always wins, so the agressive parent must be RIGHT.

And in attempt to survive they bond with the aggressive parent being the strong and the right one. The kids see the abuse, but they also see the power it holds, and unfortunately they get confused and think the aggressive one's formula is successful and take on this as a survival technique or a life technique themselves.

Strong opinionated personalities attract followers for the same reason. It provides an element of safety and protection for the follower. "If I identify with a strong opinionated person, I am vicariously strong and opinionated too."

It's like the beautiful people syndrome. Everyone wants to be around associated with the beautiful people. If we are friends with the beautiful people, maybe we are beautiful too.

One author I read wrote about seeing his hysterical mother always winning through and by her hysteria. Father would back down once mother got hysterical. The child saw father as weak, and mother as strong. It then translated to mother is right, and father is wrong. This was such powerful weapon the author observed in his mother, that she weilded her hysteria with such skill. The author too became an hysterical in the face of conflict later as an adult.

So kids in the playground are seeing 'strength' in the bullies and snooty ones. And seeing 'weakness' in your child. To align with your child they are misbelieve they are aligning with weakness.

There are some simple strategies I was helped with to overcome this. I had to deal with this situation with one of my children. The school counsellor suggested I do some very basic things for my child in helping him estblish his own social network. And he really did need my help. Like a really cool party, and it wasn't even his birthday. We didn't invite the problem kids, but did invite some of their (the problem kids) friends. This had a positive effect, both on my child and the other kids. Then I arranged another litle get together shortly after and it was sealed. He had a few more friends to play with in the playgound.

A couple of times on cold days I took out time at lunchtime and went to the school playground at lunchtime with a big bag of hot chips/fries and sat on the seat with the playground teacher on duty an had a chat. You reckon I wasn't mobbed by all these little kids, and was my son no longer Mr Invisible or what. A few other simple things like that and it turned around his situation slowly for the better. My situation was probably different, my son was very shy initially in making friends. That's changed now, and I can see that I really had to get involved to help him assimilate. It just wan't working for him on his own. I think our little ones need us to get involved at this level sometimes. Thank goodness for our school counsellor though, I didn't have a clue. She is so wise.

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seeker

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Walk a mile in my shoes
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2004, 11:31:50 AM »
Hello Guest,

Thank you so much for the insightful reply.  

Quote
The aggressive parent always wins, so the agressive parent must be RIGHT


You know, I had just never considered this! Also, thanks for sharing the experience about your child and the things you have done to help.  I will keep that in mind.  Mine attends a smaller school, so the pool of available friends is much, much smaller and two existing friends had left, causing a bit of a void.

Also, apologies to the first Guest who originated this post.  I feel I have hijacked your thread.  Jacmac kindly started a new one called Life is a Playground, so I will take these issues over there.  Thanks all, Seeker.