Reframing Challenge

[Hopalong]

Okay...(deep breath).
I'd like some help with reframing something I've been avoiding.
It hurts.
I'd like to deal with it today as best I can because I really need a peaceful weekend.
I haven't been sleeping well and have an enormous amount to do.

I have been feeling completely unloved by my daughter.
You may recall that her last visit home was again a painful onslaught of criticism and statements of rejection, me pouring out money, no or little or just-after afterthought thanks from her. Since, a two-line email.

What's a little different and even more painful is that I am not particularly looking forward to time with her. I don't yearn to hear her voice. I am just so sad. It has been so intense. She has reminded me of her father's mean streak. I know after a while, I was unable to stay with him.
 
I guess I am just wondering what the future holds for me as a mother. I think back, and sure there are mistakes, but there was such love and playfulness and ... where did it go? Where did she go? Izzy's posts about her distant 43 y/o D have been very painful to read.

My D is 26 but I feel now that time will fly. She doesn't include me in any part of her life whatsoever. Doesn't return emails unless there's something in it for her.

I think I need help because there is part of me that has trouble accepting that this is the new reality now, and no matter how many happy memories I have, she evidently doesn't have them, or doesn't value them enough to try to maintain a relationship with me.

It sounds odd, but the feeling is, "You've gotIten what you wanted and now you could care less." Sometimes I think childish thoughts like, well, if anything does happen to me, why would I bother to let her know? She so clearly doesn't care.

Oh well. Not very articulate and I do not feel insightful.
Just thought it might help to process it some today, so that I might let it go tomorrow and try to grasp a little piece of health and peace this weekend.

Thanks for listening, all.

love,
Hops

[reallyME]

Hops,

I feel really humbled by your post.  Normally, you've been the one to help me and others, with your witty insights and strength.  This time, it is you who seeks some guidance, and I feel so strange trying to give input to the great Voicelessness guru of the board.

One thing that has helped me with accepting when my children don't want me to be part of their lives, is to realize that, once my job raising them is done, they are now accountable to God on their own.  Most grown up children tend to not want MOM involved in their lives at times.  The dysfunctional children are even more likely to push us away.  It's important to realize that those adult-children are SEPARATE from us.  They have their own minds, wills, emotions, plans, dreams, intentions, attitudes, actions.  If they went and robbed a bank, for instance, it would be THEY who spent time in jail, NOT US. 

The biggest travesty I've seen in situations where the parent pines for the adult-child, is that the parent is still not allowing or accepting the child's individuation, even years later.

Sometimes I might be able to still "hold" my adult child, but I always must remember that I can never ever "keep" her.

Hope that makes some sense.

~Laura

[Hopalong]

Thank you, Laura. It does make sense.
It helps. It's all true.
I have got to smack some sense into my head.

Thanks for the wisdom and also for an
unexpected laugh...("great Voicelessn..."  !! Snort, chortle.) 

(((((RM))))

Hops

[WRITE]

once my job raising them is done, they are now accountable to God on their own.  Most grown up children tend to not want MOM involved in their lives at times.

Laura's right Hops. She has to make her own mistakes now. And if one of them is being selfish...well that's a pretty big growth curve and a very reliable behaviour feedback loop. Maybe at some point you'll get the opportunity to gently point out a negative consequence or two. And I know you are setting her a positive example.

But that doesn't help you not grieve for the relationship you want and don't have. Yet.
Hope for it and wait for it though- and until then rejoice in all the other people who see the beautiful you and care for and understand you.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

If we are facing in the right direction, all we have to do is keep on walking.

( Buddhist proverb on patience)

[debkor]

Awww, Hops,

I don't know if this will help you any.  But I was your daughter and I was my daughter.  I think back to my 20s and my memories are of my friends having fun doing (doing what I wanted feeling real grown up)   until I needed money or was sick then I thought of mom.  I never really felt entitlement to any other thing except my mom.  I knew I could always rely on my mom. She was always there and never turned me away. Open arms at all times.  It came natural to me.  Always felt very loved.  I could be miserable, nasty, loving,moody, critical, know it all with my mom. All those things I did was very shellfish I was in my 20's and a grown woman still acting like a kid with my mother. I loved my mother to my core.  Sometimes I don't think she always felt that with the way I treated her and like I said it came natural to me so I thought it would come natural to her to just (know that).  I don't really think I was aware that I was hurting her feelings.  When she would get annoyed with me I would think God! there she goes treating me like a kid again. Nag, Nag, Nag.
 I would do the same thing your daughter is doing to you.
I would have or think I was having an adult conversation with my mom and it would go something like this.
Mom I know what to do. Stop talking to me like I'm a kid.  Now I'm going and thanks for the money and food and don't forget to call the Dr. for me OK?  God, I was such a jerk.  Making one statement and doing the other. I'm must of drove her crazy as my daughter does with me.  So Hops seriously. I think it may just be her 20s and in conflict with herself grown/kid.  I think she will turn it around. I think she is very much struggling to be grown up completely. 
I finally did grow up totally Hops probably around 28-29.  But did I ever really? As far as responsibilities yes, as far as, wanting my mom comfort No. When I was losing my baby I remember screaming,, I WANT MY MOM!!! and she was there. When I went home I wanted my mom and only my mom with me. I was 28 and had a terrible sad horrible thing happen, I snuggled right up into my mom on the couch and watched a movie with her as she rubbed my head.
Oh yes Hops I think she has the same memories that you have and yes she values them.  Right now she's just being 26. My memories flooded me when I had my first child.  Now they are never ending. 
My mom came to my home verses nursing home.  She was only here about 4 months before she died. I remember looking at her laying on the couch so frail and thinking she looked like a little broken bird.  I had become  her mom then taking care of her ,that was difficult for me.  I wanted my mom. 
I miss her very much.
You remind me very much of how loving my mom was and your daughter reminds me of how I was.
So I think it will turn around Hoppy,
Don't give up hope . She sounds very immature just like I was even though she does not know that yet. I thought as a kid you are entitled to a good mom.  That is what moms are good, loving. I didn't realize that it was a gift to have one till I was older
You Hops are a gift, I truly believe she will realize that.


Love Deb

[Gaining Strength]

I agree with Teartracks: (hello tt - so good to see you again!!)
My guess is that she is reconciling some core stuff and that at some point she will see you in the proper light and reconnect.

Although she is of an age to be a friend to her mother, something in her is not ready.  I suggest, lightly, (not knowing much about your relationship with her nor about her) that she still is a teenager in her relationship to you where she needs, wants (and unfortunately perhaps expects) you to do things for her but she doesn't want to acknowledge that she stills needs you or wants you.  I suspect (again without much information) that she is still in a psychological rebellious stage (I hate you don't leave me).

My objective suggestion (because I don't have the emotional involvement) is to continue to do things for her that please you without expecting even the most basic civility in return.  I think she needs you AND wants you but some part of her unresolved conflict (that may well have to do with her father) is being taken out on you.

As a matter of fact, so time ago when you posted about her treatment of you in spite of her relationship with her father made me think that she is give you ill-treatment because she couldn't do it to her father.  Some kind of a deal where she is treating you the way her father makes her feel.  

If you can find a way to not take it personally (not that I could do that) then you can continue to do for her and communicate with her without expecting anything from her.  For what ever reason she is not able to give.  But don't give up.  Hang in there - if you can give without expecting even basic kindness back she will come back to you with great sorrrow for her unkindness.

I am so sorry that you are in so much pain over this.  I will keep your relationship with her in my thoughts. - your friend - Gaining Strength

PS - debkor and I were posting at the same time.  I think Debkor has hit the nail on the head. 

[oc]

HOPS  I agree.  You have always been very supportive of me and I value your input.  I know I would have grown up and matured and been my moms friend had she not swooped in and taken control of my life.  Yes I allowed it but resented her for it.  Maybe your daughter is establishing some pretty firm boundaries and will ease up if you let her go.  If you love something set it free, if it comes back to you it is yours, if it does not it never was.

[Hopalong]

thank you!!!!!!!!
And in the way of the universe, my D just called me.
She thanked me for little stuff I'd sent her and then asked my advice on a work issue.
It was nice to feel needed, because I'm pretty competent in that area...and she really is being taken advantage of. (You know, the folks who think there's nothing off about being upper middle class while their employees have 2 or 3 jobs and no health insurance...) Grrrr.

Every single one of you has wisdom and I tell you something...I KNEW I could lift this problem out of my chest and plonk it on the board and ask for help and when I could look again there would be love and effort to understand and wisdom here.

Does friendship get better than this? I don't think so.

Well, one thing, maybe. Y'all could materialize in my room in your best pajamas-with-feet-in-them and watch Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with me. I would supply the popcorn.

Ahem. Sniff. Grin. Smile. Big happier sigh.

My invaluable homework, from
RM--individuation, hold not keep
Write--reliable behavior feedback loop
TT--core stuff, one pixel at a time
Deb--struggling to be grown up            [me too!]
GS--do things to please her that please me             [her dad died when she was 19]
OC--establishing firm boundaries...let her go

Thank you, group morphy amazing big generous lump of cosmic stuff that you are....
I feel SANER, and not SICK, and not like a failure. And I felt so grateful too for the love and tenderness you expressed toward her. It's like you were all helping me be a better mother.

love,
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

And in the way of the universe, my D just called me.
Oh my heavens, Hops!!! Only because you were open to it.  What a marvelous miracle!!!

Does friendship get better than this? I don't think so.
Me either.  Just want more and more of it.

Y'all could materialize in my room in your best pajamas-with-feet-in-them and watch Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with me. I would supply the popcorn.
Oh yeah.  Now you're talking.

[her dad died when she was 19]
all the more reason she might take out her resentment on you - he's not there to dish it out to.  Not fair but I bet it is part of it.

I feel SANER, and not SICK, and not like a failure.
you are not a failure - you have just checked the oven before the cake is baked.  You still have dough - be patient and you will get cake. Half baked cake looks like failure but only if you take it out too soon.

[Hopalong]

((((((((((CB))))))))))))

spot on²

thank you, wise one
happy wknd

 
Hops

[Lupita]

I have been told that they do come back. Usually when they become parents themselves. I don't want my son to make me a grand ma, not ready yet. But everybody tells me that they come back.

Also when they need help.

Can you cook her favorite food when she comes?

Was thinkng of you and rememeber reading this post.

Love,

Lupita

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lupita...

Sure I can cook for her.
She called me at work today and we had a much nicer chat.

Thanks for your faith in change.

Hops

[gratitude28]

(((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))

I know I am older than your daughter, but can I be your surrogate during the times when she is being a bone-head????

I am so pleased to see she called and you had a nice chat!!!!!

Lots of love (and patience and peace),
Love, Beth

[axa]

Hops,

So sorry you went through this difficult time but glad you posted and your friends were here to hear and support you.

My gut feeling is continue to be YOU.  You are so solid and real and that is what she needs in her life while bouncing around trying to figure out what she is about.  I think of you as a rock.  She will move away and come back but you stay being you because that is your gift to her.

My son came back with love...... never thought that would happen but it has.  He is 23 and speaks to me in such a respectful and open way that I cannot believe it is the same kid that I struggled with for so long.  I never stopped letting him know I loved him.  I was clear about what I would not tolerate from him, there were behaviours I did not approve of but I never stopped telling him I loved him.  IT WORKED.  I could not believe others when they said he would come back.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

axa

CB123


Was wondering where you were.............missed ya


axa

[Hopalong]

Thanks, dear Axa.
I got accidentally banned from the board for a day when Dr. G accidentally blocked me along with spammers!

I'm doing fine, crazy busy, and feeling better about my daughter.

Work is nuts, I'm not coping with personal paperwork, but I'm chugging on all cylinders otherwise.

Glad to hear from you too!
love,
Hops