Author Topic: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?  (Read 5428 times)

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2007, 10:07:27 PM »
WTG Storm,

I applaud you.

I evny your ability to assert yourself i.e. grab all the proper words to make yourself heard and understood, all the steps you took.

That was a great accomplishment and a good example of using your voice.

Love
Izzy


Stormchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • It's about becoming real.
    • Gale Warnings
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2007, 10:17:31 PM »
Oh, Iz, I used my voice so hard that it was husky for a full day afterward... I have never in my life done that. But you know what? I felt myself make the decision to do it. It really was a split second decision: and I was never anywhere near losing control of myself. I just... decided it was high time I...  yelled.

I've been quiet here lately, as folks may have noticed, partly because I've been busy as all getout with real work [not fallout from this episode, there has been none so far, the guy apologized and I am forgiving him - it's a work in progress, though] and partly because I've been processing this, and still don't entirely know what happened.

I stood up for myself - but I've done that before, and because I've been polite and kept my affect in check, it's been brushed aside.

Not sure exactly what the moral is, except that it apparently took a willingness to express my anger, and to confront, in order to resolve - or at least, get acknowledgement of - the issue.

This is the exact opposite of what we are taught and told.

That's where the paradox lies.

Edit in: (((((Iz))))) - thanks so much for being here just now. Here I am, revealing something about work and feeling all alone with it here... again... I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you posted.

((((((((((Iz))))))))))
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 10:20:25 PM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

isittoolate

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2007, 10:31:16 PM »
You are welcome Storm


I hope you have a little smile of happiness on your face for having been successful at expressing yourself--loud voice or not--and having it work in your favour.  :D  :D :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

Again I applaud you

love
Iz

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2007, 12:09:30 AM »

   The only way out is through!

Storm,  I bet that guy felt like he'd chewed a box of feenamint! :D :D :D :D

teartracks
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 12:12:25 AM by teartracks »

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2007, 12:33:32 AM »



Everyone,

Thanks for all the good posts. 

((((((((moon))))))))
((((((((bean)))))))))
((((((((CB123))))))))
((((((((leah)))))))))
((((((((mud)))))))))
((((((((dandylife))))))))
((((((((beth))))))))
((((((((WRITE))))))))
((((((((Storm))))))))
((((((((Iz))))))))


I feel guilty for hanging a thread and then not commenting back on all the things you say that speak to my heart and soul.   I have to do computer time in spells because of the old backache.  Cyber hugs and thank you's just never seem adequate , but I do thank you from the bottom of my heart.

teartracks

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2007, 01:22:25 AM »


Hi bean,

That is indeed a good site. 

Good to see you posting.   :)  I miss you when you don't.

tt

Stormchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • It's about becoming real.
    • Gale Warnings
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2007, 10:28:58 AM »
Thanks, all ... again. I'm hijacking the thread, but I did want to add a couple things that I only saw clearly this morning;

The first was that it did me no good whatsoever to treat this fellow as though there was no such thing as right and wrong, when he first abused me. All that did was teach him that he could abuse me with impunity. Which is no longer true, obviously. And to me, anyway, what he did was absolutely, unquestionably, totally wrong.

The second thing is that I've been forced to stand my ground on a couple of occasions in, of all places, this forum. Although I didn't like having to do it at all, going through the experience seems to have taught me something about standing up for myself, and the lesson appears to have been solidly incorporated somewhere inside.

Kind of strange, because the occasions here that taught me whatever they taught me weren't times when I 'lost it' and yelled. They were times when I stood my ground and stayed calm and stuck to the facts, or disengaged when I could see some kind of emotional turmoil under the surface issues and could tell that there was no possibility of constructive interaction, because the thing that was really broken was nothing I could fix. So I'm not entirely sure how the lessons learned here led to my being able to 'dress someone down' effectively and credibly in realspace, but I know there is a solid connection.

Weird. I was just sitting here just now, and a line from a song I love came to mind. I'm going to go get all of it and put it here. I think the 'lesson' is summed up by it very clearly!

The Gambler

On a warm summers evenin' on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a-starin' out the window at the darkness
'til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made a life out of readin' people's faces,
And knowin' what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
So if you don't mind my sayin, I can see you're out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice."

So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta play it right.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.


Now ev'ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away and knowin' what to keep.
cause ev'ry hands' a winner and ev'ry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is dyin' in your sleep."

So when he'd finished speakin, he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness, the gambler he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

~~~~~

That just about sums it up, I think... and I also think I'm going to go work out an accompaniment for this on my gee-tar, and add it to the repertoire. 'Bout time.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2007, 09:24:50 PM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

CB123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • It's never to late to be what you might have been
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2007, 12:33:19 PM »
Stormy,

That's one of my favorites, too!

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

James

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2007, 12:57:26 PM »
Hi, good things can always come from conflict as without it people bottle it up and then a persons life becomes a misery a little like my own did. I am now confrontational when before I woudlnt say boo to a goose, I stand up for myself when I deem it necessary and fight my corner when I think I am right. The problem comes when you fight your corner and win and then realise afterwards that you were wrong or perhaps just like the feeling of beating someone down. Now luckily I dont ever have a feeling of liking beating someone down, which is obviously what an N does and enjoys, anger leads to hate, hate leads to fear, fear leads to suffering, wow I never knew that a little green fella could be so inciteful but then he was a master of the force wasnt he (actually I think I got Yodas words mixed up but Im sure you get the gist  :lol: ) I digress however, I do stand up for myself and then feel that I am in the wrong in which case I instantly feel guilty and make my apologies so therefore everyones feelings are out in the open which is I feel healthy and lets nothing simmer on under the surface. A cofrontational yet apologetic approach leads to happiness and a sense of equality for all.

I have to say though that I look at confrontation as being conflict, as confrontation is a result of a conflict of interests so therefore a confrontation occurs. So good things can come from both conflict and confrontation if both parties are willing and able to look at both sides of the story and are also willing and able to apologise and to accept an apology. If a person is unable or unwilling to to do these things then divisions, anger and discontent could insue resulting in the answer that in this instance nothing good would come from confrontation/conflict although thats for both parties, in this instance one of the people would come out of the conflict feeling powerful and the other would come out feeling weak. So you could say for a nasty person something good would happen for them but for a nice person something bad would happen to them or vice versa as nice people can do over nasty people too. If both parties are nice then one person would be made worse although that dependds on what th earguement was about and who was write and wrong and now Im all mixed and Ive got to bid on something on ebay so Ill stop here... DOH!!

And I hereby rest my case sitting proudly on the fence!   :D
Peace be with you my fellow Jedis and im off to do be some bidding!!
James

dandylife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2007, 04:21:54 PM »
I always love a real life solid example to demonstrate.

Here's my latest conflict:

NH decided last June-ish to get a tax benefit and also put some money aside for college for daughter by "giving" her about 10K in income from the business as a W-2 (in actuality, it was 4 gold coins plus $4000 into a Roth IRA). Daughter was only vaguely informed of this action ("cool - you got some gold coins and money in your Roth IRA"!) Nothing was discussed at the time about how taxes would come up in the future.

Well, I did daughter's taxes yesterday (she's 17) and figured out that because of this W2, she ended up owing $977 in Federal taxes plus $511 in state. NH says well, hahahaha she'll have to find a way to pay it, knowing full well she has about $500 to her name of her own money.

I said it would not be fair to make her pay it, for several reasons, but mostly because he got a tax break AND he didn't involve her in the decision making process and he didn't inform her in a timely manner that the taxes would need to be paid.

He at first refused to pay it, saying something like, "I'm always the one to get screwed."

Wha?

So I said okay then I guess I will pay the taxes. And that pisses me off.

We went through a little bit of confrontation, with me explaining precisely why this would not be fair.

He agreed to pay.

But then something interesting happened.

We avoided each other all night and most of today.

I went to him earlier today and said, hey I think I know what's missing from our earlier discussion - why we both feel so distant from each other.

It's what we learned in therapy - everyone needs validation.

I didn't give it to him ("I can see how you might feel that way.")

He didn't give it to me ("I see your point and even though I disagree, I'm willing to do this for our family.")

It is REALLY important, to SAY these things.

If you feel them, yet don't say them you will feel shortchanged and so will they.

So, please remember when you have a conflict, part of the resolution to make it a win/win and not a win/lose, you must give the other person validation.

Even if you disagree totally, you can say, "IF I was in your position, perhaps I'd feel the same."

Dandylife

"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2007, 04:50:44 PM »



Hi dandylife,

Ouch for your daughter.  A good example of how the unsuspecting can be pulled into a scheme completely not of their making.

tt

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2007, 11:48:11 PM »
Storm, your post #16. 

I stood up for myself - but I've done that before, and because I've been polite and kept my affect in check, it's been brushed aside.

Not sure exactly what the moral is, except that it apparently took a willingness to express my anger, and to confront, in order to resolve - or at least, get acknowledgement of - the issue.

A funny thing has happened.

People no longer seem quite as inclined to try to take advantage of me.

People who previously seemed to regard me as some kind of cross between a patsy and a doormat seem to have stopped doing that.

People have relaxed around me. I've been invited to lunch, and people have asked to join me when they see me in the lunchroom. Not to gossip about this, either. Simply to eat with me.

The first was that it did me no good whatsoever to treat this fellow as though there was no such thing as right and wrong, when he first abused me. All that did was teach him that he could abuse me with impunity. Which is no longer true, obviously. And to me, anyway, what he did was absolutely, unquestionably, totally wrong.

The second thing is that I've been forced to stand my ground on a couple of occasions in, of all places, this forum. Although I didn't like having to do it at all, going through the experience seems to have taught me something about standing up for myself, and the lesson appears to have been solidly incorporated somewhere inside.


I think your subconscious  has led you to the epicenter of your personal integrity sometime in the recent past.  It just happened to manifest in the confrontation with the 'gentleman'.  It's been there all along.  You just hadn't given it expression.  I think that is why your coworkers are treating you differently and I think it is why the effect was different.  They all sense and respect the integrity with which you handled the conflict.  I purpled in some of your comments that make me think this.

teartracks

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2007, 06:05:39 PM »




Hi Storm,

On rereading my preceding post, I wondered if I said what I wanted to say in a confusing way.  Sometimes, what I write doesn't say what I want it to say.  That's because I'm not a good enough writer.   :x :o

First, I wasn't inferring that you had no integrity before the fray with the 'gentleman'.  Indeed, I admire you for the integrity you've shown consistently here on the board. 

I'll use something from my own experience to try and communicate what went through my mind as I read your account of the confrontation with him.

As you know the  N is my life is my mother.  It all hit me like a ton of bricks seven years ago when I came out of denial.  I dragged my guts around in the gravel most of those seven years.  I was very, very angry at her. 

Until fairly recently I was not able to express what I felt inside except in an angry, in your face way. It seemed never to get me anywhere and even made me feel worse because I didn't feel in control of my emotions.  But eventually a day rolled around where apparently I had studied enough, experienced enough, detached enough so that I could confront, respond, say what I needed to say because it was my truth, my right to stand up for myself and take care of myself.  I knew that it was not only my right, but it was the right thing to do. I wasn't conscious of the change that was occurring in my heart and soul.  It just happened,  one day she overstepped my boundary, spur of the moment.  I said what I needed to say to her and that was that.  I didn't feel 'bad' about standing up for me.  I knew I'd found a new part of me that had been there all along, but I'd not given it voice.  Starting then I began saying what needed to be said, what was right and I didn't feel 'bad' for it.  The difference was that I was standing up for what I believed was right.  From then on, I have felt a greater respect for myself.  When I began to speak on behalf of myself, it felt to me like I had found the center of my own personal integrity.   Before, when I reacted in anger, I didn't have the same respect for myself that I do now    Lord, I hope I'm making sense!

Unlike the positive gestures you received from your coworkers, my Mom holds to her old attitude regardless of how I express myself or how right what I express is. That will never change.  But I am way more in touch with me now than before and it feels awfully good.  Being able to express what is right for me comes from a different place and it settles well with my soul. 

Did I do any better this time? 

tt


Stormchild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • It's about becoming real.
    • Gale Warnings
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2007, 06:20:20 PM »
Hi tracks

Thanks for the extra explanation! I was trying to figure it out, and this helps. I thought maybe you meant 'integrity' in the sense of 'wholeness' as in, healing, which is certainly true; not to worry, I didn't think you were saying I was a no-good fibber mcgee until the day I told this fellow off...

And yes, I see what you mean. I was angry, definitely, but more important, I was CERTAIN that I had a right to be angry, and more important still, it truly didn't matter to me, any longer, whether or not I also had PERMISSION to be angry, from anyone else.

I had my own permission, which was all I needed.

Thanks Tracks!

The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Confrontation vs Conflict. Does Anything Good Really Come From Either?
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2007, 06:26:52 PM »



Exactly!

 :) 8) :) 8)

tt