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New here, random thoughts

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Gingerpeach:
Absolutely, Ns love religion!  And politics too. they are very similar, aren't they?  My soon to be exNH was both!  Besides having a business, he was on our town council.  Then he annouced that he wanted to go to school for a Masters of Divinity. And he did.

Of course he was also having an affair and spending hours on porn sites.  And chatting in pornographic chat rooms and exchanging nude pictures over the internet.  You should have seen some of the emails to his girlfriend.....God has brought our hearts together, (not to mention other body parts.)

But the hypocrisy of this does not occur to Ns.  God loves them exactly as they are.  God makes no judgments.  Which is how they justify doing whatever they do.  I think that it even relieves them of worrying about it.  If God forgives them everything, every time, then what is there to worry about....they can do whatever they like.  And they do !!  Hey....no sweat, I'll be forgiven !!

And don't forget the "image" part of it.  Ns just love being thought of as "fine and upstanding."  They just love being admired.  What better way? Have you ever seen how many women simper over the minister?  And tell him how inspiring and wonderful he is? And invite him for coffee?  Ns just eat that up !!!  It's regular supply and in enormous quantities too.

When our church found out about his affair (not through me, although I was tempted) and told him that he was no longer a candidate for the ministry, and cut off their sponsorship of his schooling,  he simply changed denominations !!  Just like that. Within two weeks!  Hey,  why waste my time, if their God won't have me, someone else's God will. Their God is soooooo unforgiving.  So, I found me a better one, one that doesn't ask too many questions !!

So forgive my sarcasm,  I just got really tired of being berated for not going to Bible classes like a good little girl. And being told that I couldn't possible know what a spiritual experience was.  And for not wanting to listen to hymns all day. And....and....and.......aaaauuuuggggghhh!

O, he's still having affairs, one with one of the other ministerial candidates.  And another with a married woman.  But, I am vey happily out of there !!

Anonymous:
Hello again,

Gingerpeach, wow!  did you hit the N nail on the head!  Totally agree with the appeal politics and religion hold for Ns.  Don't forget acting!  Anything with an audience.  Ns can yap away on any topic and are entirely turned off by dialogue.  The benefits are plentiful: supply without responsibility, no listening required, being set above everyone else, etc. etc.  M. Scott Peck pointed out the appeal of religion for Ns too in People of the Lie.  I felt so validated.

Red Rose, know what you mean about the cheese grater feeling.  I sometimes get the feeling that oneof the Ns in my life feels that religion is a competition.  (cringe).  Since you are extracting yourself from a particular group, you may want to look into 7 Paths to God (it's on Dr. Grossman's reading list with a link to amazon if you want more details).  I really appreciated the author's introduction.  She refers to family members who cluck and shake their heads sadly at her for not following "their" way.  

I notice that your mom isn't "diagnosed".  She doesn't need to be.  You have already identified the nature of the exchanges between you whether it is labeled or not, and you know something is amiss. One of the best books I've read about the dynamic you describe in your original post is Controlling People by Patricia Evans.  Maybe some of the characters in Poisonwood Bible could have been saved if they had this book!  :D

--- Quote ---he really isn't seeing them. He is seeing through them,
--- End quote ---

This book focuses on the dynamics (vs. the diagnosis) like wha you describe above about the dad character.  It suggests how to break the "spell" these people try to cast over you and keep your grip on reality.  Well, I'm glad you like to read cuz there I go again with the books  :wink:

Thanks for starting this great thread.  Seeker

RedRose:
Gingerpeach,

I will forgive your sarcasm, as one who enjoys a little bit of it, herself.   :D

Seriously, I can "feel" your irritation through your post, and you are entitled to it.  When you said that they do not see their hypocrisy because God will forgive them, I understand exactly what you are saying.  And, that can be applied to people in general -- people who are not N, but in a religion where all you have to do is "believe in Jesus."  It's truly like a grater, isn't it?  I just don't want to hear about God and the Bible and Pastor so-and-so, anymore, but especially from my mother.

RedRose:
Seeker,

Thanks for the book suggestion.  I must compile a list.  There are several books I need to order.  Also, when visiting another forum, I have seen the title of this book suggested:  When You and Your Mother Can't be Friends.

I haven't yet read any reviews of the book, so I don't know how deeply it delves into the psychological aspect of parent/child relationship between mother and daughter in regards to disorders.

Gingerpeach:
Yes Red Rose, it is definitely not limited to Ns.  Fortunately, my mother hasn't imposed religion on me since 1967 when she defected from it herself !!  It was the N husband that did, so that is why I was coming from that perspective.

Generally, I run from religious fanatics.  And if I had known that the NH was going to turn into one, I would have.  And actually, if he hadn't insisted that I buy into it too, I wouldn't have minded as much as I did.  But that's a whole 'nother N thing.....control.  

Red Rose, you have my deepest sympathy that you are subjected to that from your mother or from anyone.  Know in your heart that sprituality hasn't a damn thing to do with religion.

Here's a quote about it from Tom Robbins:

"You know, religion is organized spirituality. But there's an inherent contradiction there, because the moment you try to organize spirituality, you destroy its essence. So religion is spirituality in which the spiritual has been killed."

Good one, huh?  Hang in there Red Rose !!!

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