Author Topic: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?  (Read 3918 times)

cats paw

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How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« on: April 11, 2007, 08:12:45 AM »

  I'm interested in knowing how those of you have reconciled your faith - whatever that faith might be- including the ideas of "honoring your mother and father",  "loving one another",  "the middle way" , etc.  with the actions you have chosen to take in your relationships.


gratitude28

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 08:17:38 AM »
Hi Cat and Welcome,
I don't think I have quite reconciled it... I still feel like I should respect them... but at the same time I avoid them. This is a very good question.
Let me chew on it for a while.
How are you doing?
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Stormchild

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2007, 08:42:55 AM »
Here's how I've reasoned it out:

The requirement to honor and cherish goes in both directions. A child who fails to properly honor a parent can be forgiven and taught, since they are immature and not fully formed. A parent who mistreats and abuses a child may also be immature and not fully formed, but they are also responsible for deliberately and seriously damaging a growing human being.

Parenthood has two components: physical and emotional. Physical parenthood involved conceiving, giving birth, changing diapers, feeding, bathing, providing clothing, medical care, shelter. Emotional parenthood involves loving, caring, teaching, nurturing, correcting, protecting, encouraging, admonishing, supporting, releasing.

I have learned to accept that someone can be a parent in the physical sense but not in the emotional sense, some parents can parent well in the emotional sense but not, attimes, in the physical sense [job loss, catastrophe - 'you have to stay with Grandma for awhile, mommy has to work in another state, there are no jobs here and I want you to finish school where you are']. Others parent well in neither sense, and some parent well in both senses.

They are all parents, but by no stretch of the imagination are they all equal.

Again, I consider the admonition to honor a parent is matched and balanced by the admonition to properly care for and raise one's children. If my parent sees no reason to care for me or treat me lovingly, they have told me where I stand. Accepting that, and reacting appropriately to it, DOES honor them, because it respects their choice.
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Overcomer

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 05:37:23 PM »
This is very hard for me because on one hand, my parents give and give and give....................but on the other hand they take....well, I should say my mom takes - my dad gives.  My mom gives clothes, money, stuff................but she takes away self esteem, she makes you feel like your decisions are stupid, she uses sarcasm, she manipulates, she sulks, she steals the spotlight, etc. etc.   So how do you honor someone who as stolen your self worth from you by undermining everything you do.......you never feel like a decision you make is a good one.  You never feel like a letter you write or a memo you type is right.  I remember my dad telling me when they were first married and he was out of the country for the military and he wrote her a really nice letter.  She corrected the spelling and grammar and sent it back to him.  I write a memo at work, and she corrects it and I have to retype  it.

How do you "honor" that?  I "honor" her by stay away from her.  I cannot be in the same room with her for long before I can't stand her.  And it says right in the Bible that to hate is like murder.  That is what I am dealing with now!!  I feel like a murderer.
Kelly

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moonlight52

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 06:37:30 PM »
Respect and honor and compassion can be given even if another cannot receive these things or possibly is not able to understand they are not giving these in return.
(or may know good darn well whats up)
I am concerned with what is in my heart each individual can only work on these within.

The requirement to honor and cherish goes in both directions.  If my parent sees no reason to care for me or treat me lovingly, they have told me where I stand.

Because about a year ago I was in a desperate search to be released from pain and suffering....
I went in search of myself in depth : my childhood was filled with great wonder at times and also filled with physical abuse.
Then the trauma of my twin and his all too early passing.

All the years of my life I have thought and given honor and respect to my father I was taught to care for my parents emotions first.And I did so...................
I do not think they realized it but I did have one conversation with my dear mom when she did speak about her and my father not being as good parents as she wished.....
I never spoke of the physical violence done to me to her......But I did with twin brother as early as eight when we were hiding some where saying to each other when we grow up we will never do this to our children.

My Doctor said the kind of physical repeated violence my twin and I endured was the major factor in triggering bipolar.....
I believe in Creator and that light is within all beings.I respect that light within my father I believe he does not and has not ever respected my light It does seem to be that way.
Does that mean I want to hold bad feelings in my heart no and I do not......
It is just very sad.

Know where you stand but do not take sides.

moonlight52

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 07:07:18 PM »
Freedom and bondage are two concepts and beyond is inner peace and good will toward others.

love to you
moonlight

Gaining Strength

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 07:11:54 PM »
CatsPaw - for years I simply turned away from the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother."  I could not make sense of it.  But in recent years I have struggled with it because I believe there is some meaning in it and that it is broad enough to include wretched parents.  If that is true then what in the world could it mean "to honor thy wretched father and wretched mother, that it may go well with you."  

The sense I have gotten out of it is much of what Moonlight writes.  The key seems to be avoiding a hardened heart because I suffer from a hardened heart.  But "honor" and "forgiveness" do not mean that I must stand in front of the murderous criminal ever again nor does it mean that I must honor my parents definition of "honor".  I think Moonlight has it.  I think honor means to have compassion, forgiveness and perhaps, if possible, mercy. - Just one person's struggle over the issue - Gaining Strength

Overcomer

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 08:04:56 PM »
Honor is a hard one.  I think about "honoring" my mom at her funeral.  Standing up and eulogizing her.  I am totally afraid I would get on a rant and they would have to run up to the podium and drag me out.  Have you ever seen that movie with Gwenyth Paltrow where she does just that...................she says something like "where were all you people the last two years while my father was deteriorating?  I'm glad he's dead!!!"

I don't know.  That relief thread has something to do with it.  Can you be sad someone died and yet relieved??  I don't want to say "happy" because that would make me as bad as she.  So how can you honor someone and be relieved they are dead?  Can you lie?  Tell everyone what the N would want you to say at the funeral?  Or could you say it so sarcastically that everyone could tell by the tone of your voice that you were not sincere?  So if you pretend to honor your parents, can people tell you are lying???  But do you have to honor them to live a long life???
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

mountainspring

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 08:08:42 PM »
I think the Honor your father and mother verse can be balanced with the verse that says whoever hurts a child should have a millstone put around his neck..   Can't remember it exactly but its goes something like that. 

moonlight52

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2007, 08:33:42 PM »
The only way I have found forgiveness is to forgive others.....
The problem is I have done the unforgivable by searching for a way out of my pain and through this process I have "spilled the beans" As it were.....
(although my sister and brother spoke about the abuse to their spouse's over 30 years ago and I had nothing to do with that)
But I have passed through that fire and released emotions that were attached to them.......
G-d sees all we are all forgiven so living on the path that includes these ideas has brought peace and G-d is judge not me....
I am so grateful to have found dearly sought after peace.....
No one is to blame ..
I hold myself responsible for my own emotions and as always in life if we make mistakes there is learning an opportunity to try again.....
Intention what is in your heart ..
well it is a struggle and then............................

So much love to you
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 09:04:12 PM by moonlight »

cats paw

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2007, 10:34:46 PM »
  Thanks to all of you for giving me so much to ponder!  I was getting ready to turn in for the night, and tried to skim all the new posts, and left this one for last to skim.

   Next time I'll know better, to peek before turning in!  But the good thing is that the board, and you all, will still be here!

   I did not clarify it in my original post, but I also wanted to open this up not just about parents or FOO, but also any actions anyone has chosen to take in any relationships, if anyone wants to offer any other thoughts.

   I'll be looking forward to really being able to ponder and not just skim!!

Cat

poetprose

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 02:28:01 PM »
For me it is and was a matter of learning to love the sick.....

alot had to be worked/ into me and/ out of me to be able to do this .........

it is easy to love someone who is easy to love.......... awh but loving someone who is hard to love is harder


SilverLining

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2007, 01:35:12 PM »

  I'm interested in knowing how those of you have reconciled your faith - whatever that faith might be- including the ideas of "honoring your mother and father",  "loving one another",  "the middle way" , etc.  with the actions you have chosen to take in your relationships.



 

It's a complicated issue, I think.  On the one hand we have the apparently straightforward commandment "honor thy father and mother".  But things get more complicated if we look at other scripture.  There is, for example, Luke 18:20 which states:  There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or wife, or children for the kingdom of gods sake who shall not receive manifold more in this present time and in the world to come".   There are many other statements by JC which also suggest the issue is not simple. 

I think there is a presumption in the basic commandment that the father and mother are actually on the right path.   Then it is reasonable to  "honor" them fully.  But if they are lost, the offspring have to make other choices.   

In practice I "honor" my parents by knowing they probably did the best they could, given their own upbringing and circumstances.  I don't mistreat them, and I try to be reasonably decent.  But at the same time I know I have to draw a line.   My father's belief system and behaviors are not something I can fully honor, because I suspect he has undiagnosed mental disorders.  It isn't up to me to judge, but I do have to make my own choices and protect myself from abuse.     

cats paw

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2007, 06:00:04 PM »
Hello to All,

   I just wanted to say thank you- Gratitude, Stormchild, Overcomer, Moonlight, Gaining Strength, Poetprose, and tjr for responding in such a considered way.

   I see value in all your responses, and I see my questioning mind, my self-doubting mind, start chattering away.  ( I think I  remember a reference to the "monkey mind" in something I read about meditation.  I'm surprised I'm not always craving bananas.)

   The statement Moonlight made- "Freedom and bondage are two concepts" (the illusion of duality?)"and beyond is inner peace and goodwill toward others" was something that both caught my attention and freed it.  I guess experientially it was akin to one of those "zen" moments I've read about.

    tjr- I like how you wrote "JC'.  To me, it speaks familiarity and friendship, and not sacrilege.

    Overcomer- I can relate to what you said about your parents providing well physically.  Mine did provide for us while we were growing up (a little too well for my brother- he was overindulged both physically and emotionally, and is in prison- again) but what I always wanted was to just have the sense that what I did was ok, or enough.  I still struggle with giving myself that, even though I do not have to do it ex nihilo as Gaining Strength mentioned in another post.
  If I remember correctly, Stormchild posted in another thread about about feeling sad and relieved when someone dies.  I plan to go back and post on it at another time.   I recently saw the movie with the funeral scene you described.  What I thought was just how TIRED she was of the caretaking that had come to and abrupt end, and how she was glad that the misery, both hers and his was over, and that was what she was glad about, not his actual death.  I'll have to watch it again, because it was late and I fell asleep during part of it, and I thought it was interesting how her thoughts of if it was her work or his work got so mixed up in her mind.
   
  Poetprose- yes, so much harder, especially when struggling to find the way to do it not just in word but in deed. ( and I suppose in deed could have two meanings!)

OK- these non-typing fingers have been pecking away long enough for now- gonna take a short break.

cats paw

reallyME

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Re: How have you reconciled certain beliefs?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2007, 06:10:26 PM »
cats paw,

I'd like to share too.  Since my situation with X, I have gone back to my beliefs about charismaticism and especially deriving my strength from confession of the Bible scriptures and prayer.

X was one who set out right away by preventing me from ministering in certain ways that I was strong in, so that, to this day, I still struggle, hearing her voice scolding me.

I believe that strength of belief and faith, comes first from the Creator of that strength, and then next, from within oneself.  God has given me a strong inner-core, so when all is said and done, I can stand pretty firmly for what I believe, in spite of past pains of rejection and abandonment.

~Laura