'She must be feeling terrible'

[WRITE]

She must be feeling terrible

Incrisis wrote this just after I drove out of my way to go past church and make sure the choir director's car was in work as it's been missing for a few days and I suddenly started feeling guilty and 'what if my leaving out has precipitated another crisis in him...'

It made me think back to childhood and how often I was expected not only to show or act like I loved soemone who clearly didn't love me, but also take care and give to them even though there was nothing in return.

That seems to be an ingrained pattern now.

I drove past and saw his car and said out loud to myself 'okay, now you know you didn't drive him to take his life in desperation are you satisfied' and speakign out loud and it sounding so absurd made me laugh out loud and vow to come straight on here and start a thread.

Don't worry about what she's feeling Incrisis, it's not our resposibility to caretake others not even if they or we feel for some reason we should!

[crisis]

Write, I think they are like little child control freaks.  They don't feel the need to consider how their actions affect others.  They make ridiculous and outrageous demands.  They have a DISTORTED view of reality.  But we have been sensitized to their needs despite this.  I do feel they are vulnerable people. But they are dangerous and drag us into their distorted world.  Why do we have an exaggerated sense of responsibility?  Because I guess our n's had none and we had to develop it to compensate.  they are so good at unbalancing our center of gravity.  But I don't want to demonize anybody because I can't help empathizing when someone comes to me in trouble.

Shouldn't a person consider what others are feeling?  Of course they should. 

But I guess the line is drawn at being separate and not being overly influenced or dragged into it. 

[WRITE]

I think they are like little child control freaks.  They don't feel the need to consider how their actions affect others.  They make ridiculous and outrageous demands.  They have a DISTORTED view of reality.

it's thought they are stuck emotionally in a young child ego stage.

But even if the person isn't N I am becomign more and more aware of how often I allow others to distort my world and unbalance my self-care.

I have taught myself that I am selfish and worthless somewhere down the line and made it part of my faith in Jesus' self-sacrifice too.

I guess the line is drawn at being separate and not being overly influenced or dragged into it. 

absolutely. And valuing us more than anything, so that a healthy relationship isn't about caretaking someone else at the expense of self.

[BonesMS]

On top of this, we also struggle with the taboo of speaking out against an N-parent, especially to those physically around us.

Bones

[Hopalong]

Bones, thank you for mentioning this.

I have a hard time with this. Really a very hard time.

So many many people, even close friends who know all about Nism and my mother, approach me, and part of me jumps up inside thinking oh I'm so glad here's someone who cares to greet me...and they say, how IS your mother?

I give a simple answer. But some days, when I'm wishing for some support, I grit my teeth. Other days, if I feel I can take the risk... I might say, she'sfineandIdon'twanttotalkabouthher.

So far I don't have the chutzpah to say, Do you mind asking me, how are you?

Seems churlish.
 

Hops

[WRITE]

So far I don't have the chutzpah to say, Do you mind asking me, how are you?

Seems churlish.

it's people seeing the world as they want it to be, not like it is!

My sister and other people think I am mad for not going back to ex....I've come to the conclusion it's a whole 'system' of people who cannot hear things around that, not just one NPD person.

We hear you Hops and I think you should get some kind of Board Award not only for taking care of the most difficult person in your life now she's vulnerable too, but for sharing your experience and personal growth with us and helping everyone here.

Who's going to write the presentation speech?!

 

[axa]

Reading these posts what jumped out at me was how we take responsibility for others.  I want to live in a world where I can believe what others say, trust them and be myself but the reality is that there are many people in the world with no integrity or care about others.  I am left with the question why do I feel responsible for their feelings.  Its as if somehow I learned along the way that my "job" in life was to make things ok for others, especially those who actively abused me.  I have just read these words out loud and hear how crazy they are.  Breaking this cycle seems to me to be an integral part of my healing.

I want to live a life where I am respectful to others but NOT responsible for their feelings.

I do believe the "system" colludes with Ns and also with VON.  Somehow staying and putting up with it seems to hold some "honour" in my experience.  I am reminded again of Alice Miller's writings.

Hops,

The more I go on in life the more I see that lots and lots of people are only concerned with themselves.  How often does that happen to all of us in our day when someone asks how you are but really don't want to hear the answer.  I know sometimes I do it but am trying to be more aware of that or else NOT ask the question. 

I know when I was caring for my daughter, rarely did anyone ask how was I.  In truth I was exhausted, scared, angry, lonely...... I could go on and on but people could not see me.  Many still don't.  I have the "honour" of being "strong".......so that lets people off the hook.  "Look at Axa, she is sooooooooo strong, she has come through so much".  Well, let me tell you guys, I am strong but I am also vulnerable and often afraid.   Sorry for the rant but it hit a note somewhere.

Caring for my daughter before her death was a privilege, she was appreciative, loving, fun, and full of compassion for me.  This made things so much easier.  I do not know if I could care for someone who had hurt me in my life.  Hats off to you Hops.

axa

[WRITE]

let me tell you guys, I am strong but I am also vulnerable and often afraid.   Sorry for the rant but it hit a note somewhere.

rant away dear Axa.
You are entitled to your anger and pain as well as all the other emotions.

We pressurise people not to reveal the difficult emotions in caring and bereavement because we don't want to face them ourselves, but it's not fair, it's asking the impossible of people to give give give and never be acknowledged or given to in their time of giving all.

Its as if somehow I learned along the way that my "job" in life was to make things ok for others, especially those who actively abused me.  I have just read these words out loud and hear how crazy they are.  Breaking this cycle seems to me to be an integral part of my healing.

there are some things it is a noble and privileged thing to give unconditionally, for there are people who need our love and help to live in this life and move from it.

Somehow staying and putting up with it seems to hold some "honour" in my experience

But not to enable an abuser, or sacrifice myself indefinitely. Yet that is how many of us were raised. We didn't stand a chance did we...until we were older and knowledgeable enough to take back ourselves.

You have been through so much and I am glad you are finding a good place of healing. And especially that you are sharing it here with me and others. I've learned so much from you this week. Thank you. (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[seastorm]

Hello to all,

I am thankful for reading these posts and knowing that there are kind and caring people who struggle with truthfulness and integrity.
Letting go and letting god is a good thing for me right now. My ex asks if I can forgive him. I am just starting to forgive myself for letting myself down and not protecting myself. All these threads are connected in their commong ground of wanting to love and be loved and doing this through service. This is no easy path.

I have started to go to AL Anon and find their philosophy and the 12 steps for co dependents really helpful. I realize how I got myself into such a downward spiral of helping and feeling, seething with resentment. Hooking up with an N just amplifies the lesson.

I admire Hops for taking care of her mom. I can't stand to be with my mom at all even though I feel love for her. I am too afraid of her cruelty. I just want the cruelty to stop with me and not perpetuate it.
I repect Axa for her anger. It is a gudepost and signals healing. It takes courage to face it.

Lots of love and standing by quietly,
Sea storm

[teartracks]

Good thread!

So many many people, even close friends who know all about Nism and my mother, approach me, and part of me jumps up inside thinking oh I'm so glad here's someone who cares to greet me...and they say, how IS your mother?

Hops,

I  wonder what would happen if you said,  Thank you for asking.  That's so thoughtful of you.  Oh here, I have one of Mom's cards.  If you'd like to call her, I know she'd love to hear from you.

Does that sound churlish?  If not, I think I'll get a few cards printed.  and adopt my own idea!

tt

[Hopalong]

Write, Axa, Sea...thank you.
I ain't no saint, but it does feel good to have the good in me acknowledged.

Poor old Ma.

TT:
That is wickedly pleasant to think about, but I'd have to have perfumed cards
in such fancy script noone could read them, and I'd have to wear elbow-length
white gloves to pass them out.

I have fantasized about having my own social cards printed though:
For a good time call ___

Well, that's just a renewed spinster who's getting fat talking.

Boy AM I getting fat. I need to bludgeon myself back into exercise.

Hops

[CB123]

Hi Sea!

So glad to hear from you again.  I just like knowing that you are around.  Makes me feel good.

Love

CB

[axa]

Sea,

Great to have you back.  I was concerned about you.  Well done for Al Anon.  I think you are right to focus on forgiving yourself that has been a hard part for me.  I was delighted to see your post this morning.

Hops,

Social cards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  POSH OR WHAT

from one spinster to another I think you are a real cutie

xxxxxx axa

[Stormchild]

Hops, I think I have a solution to the problem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
X to Hops: Well, hello, dear. And how IS your lovely mother?

Hops to X: She's getting a tad bored, actually, since she mainly has me for company. We're both getting a bit cabin-feverish, truth to tell. So I'm SOOOOO glad you've asked, because I was planning to ask YOU.... would you be able to provide a bit of respite care, by any chance? Stop in and make dinner, or stay over a night or two, say this weekend? Give me a chance to take the evening off and go see a movie, or take the whole weekend off and go visit [whoever]? I really need a bit of "me" time... we've been cooped up together for simply MONTHS... and Mother would SO love a bit of variety in her routine... and she does so wonder where all her FRIENDS are...

X to Hops: [excellent imitation of a goldfish] But - but - but - but....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I suspect that if you get the delivery pat, you could pretty well dry this particular ricochet transaction up inside of two or three weeks, and who knows?

You just might get some volunteer [i.e., free!] 'respite care' for your mother,

And some of those folks just might get some inside information on what it feels like to be in your shoes.

[Hopalong]

Woo HOO Storm!

Thank you for that completely delectable dialogue...

Ohh, I know several folks who may have a Mom evening coming up.

 

Thanks.

love
Hops