Author Topic: Need help with understanding my marriage  (Read 1862 times)

Dana

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Need help with understanding my marriage
« on: May 02, 2007, 12:52:47 PM »
Hello to everyone, I'm a new poster. I'm married for almost a year coming up June 3rd. This is a second marriage for me and I have two children from a prior marriage. I am in shock, again, because my husband is very depressed and telling me, again, he wants to leave. I have such a deep hurt right now and I don't think I'm processing things well enough -- can you give me some feedback?

I met my husband on the internet, not online dating, but on a message board. We hit it off immediately and I flew across the country to meet him. We did fall in love and it was very quick and passionate, I know, not a very well thought out thing. He moved here three months after we met, another shocker, but we felt so strongly about the relationship - and as you may know, that feeling of love can be very blinding. We both have a history of mood disorders. I have bipolar 2, but it's well controlled (I actually work in the mental health field as an RN and am well aware) -- my husband, we'll call him 'flip' has also struggled with depression and it runs very deep in both of our families. OUr history- my dad was bipolar and I grew up with him leaving all the time, I had no stability but had some strong supports in my family - dad is now treated and a successful therapist. Mom also has depression and long relationship history. For flip, his dad left his four siblings and mom for another women, that relationship didn't work, but then got help for alcoholism. His mom was depressed and very withdrawn and emotionally abusive, not horribly so, but not functional. There was no nurturing for him as she had two jobs and basically he raised himself. He tried committing suicide, I know it sounds incredulous, but he hung himself at the age of 7. He had a wild childhood but eventually recovered enough to own his own business in fixing cars...and then sought therapy. He became very dedicated to meditation and rarely drank or indulged in anything. He basically lived a long his whole life until I caught up with him at age 42. He's had relationships, but also from what he's said they never lasted longer than a year, and a few times he's left in a cruel manner. He once cheated on someone he loved but then stated it pained him for years. He did cry about it when he told me. (this is important for later- read on-) He had found solace in himself and being by himself. He knows he has mood problems, but when he was by himself he could manage it much better. His pattern has always been to not get too close, and run when he feels overwhelmed - this usually entails him becoming super critical (like his mom was to him) of the other person. He has OCD characteristics and cannot tolerate things out of place or any kind of disorganization. On that same thread, he's been a wonderful stability to the family and his ideas have helped make a lot of improvements which were needed for survival even. But I know it's been difficult for him each time he sees food go to waste or something broken because of carelessness. He grew up poor and deals with a lot of feelings around being frugal. I am the opposite, but none of this seemed to matter, and my love for him has lead me to try and meet him to where he can feel comfortable. I have made changes from his suggestions in effort to blend our lives and make compromise. Usually he is very loving and kind, and dedicated to the children - one who is bipolar and can be a nightmare at times...but we are both well equiped normally and he usually copes very well and has been a strength for us. This is why it's so shocking! We have many same interests and have good philosophies on love, spirituality and emotional health - although we do have trouble with moods from time to time. We don't really fight, we talk, and our therapist told us in the beggining we have a great relationship. We go to therapy with my son, and we go as a couple, because I realized a few years ago when he moved here that it would be best for all of us. Actually, we had been going only for my son...but a few months ago we started going as a couple. Now, after he moved here he had a period of shock where he became depressed and totally withdrew from me, and since then he does this from time to time, but always comes out of it. He says he doesn't know if he loves me anymore, and my reaction is to become hysterical. That is my end of the deal. In my last marriage I never saw how this affected my ex, who lost his career as an airline mechanic once the airlines went bust and they shipped all the jobs overseas. Our family suffered, we were both depressed and we separated. I always blamed his depression, but the therapist has shown me that my reactivity, my pushiness in trying to 'fix' everything has been making things worse. This anxiety that I have is a hard habit to break! I think of as a child, moving every year, never knowing if dad would be home at night or not...or if he'd end up in the hospital. I'm sure I have some PTSD from that and have a hard time not reacting. Anyway, Flip lost his job, he was working from home after he told his boss he was moving here a few years back and his boss let him stay on. He had a good job as a transmission consultant, very successful. He lost this job last year, and he recovered okay from it. But he couldn't find the same kind of job. He does not, and is adamant about this, he won't work on cars. He wore a suit to his last job and identifies with that type of person and success. But, he has no degree...tons of talent, but no degree. He got a job selling cars, and I was very anxious in the beginning about this - he has trouble forgiving me for putting that pressure on him. He knows how important it is to be a wage earner and no one wants to lose that power. I am not that nagging, but I try and talk with him about the future. He is so sensitive about this, he's very private, and he also has a very hard time trusting anyone. He most likely has self esteem issues that run very deep. Well, he lost his job again, selling cars. He didn't sell a car for over a month and each week he became more and more depressed. He has never not been successful before and he is a very proud man. He took another job in sales a few weeks ago and a neighboring dealership, hoping they had more traffic...but last Sat. he came home upset he didn't sell a car. On Sunday I watched him slip into a deep depression. Nothing happened really, we had a good morning, were going to ride bikes along the river path. I did what I had been told to do. I left him alone and briefly gave him words of support. He got worse on Monday. In the morning I tried to ask him, I guess I was pushing him to talk and he started yelling and left abruptly. I left him alone that day and tried to stay positive. Tuesday I became very anxious and decided to call him, hoping the fog had lifted. I know that when he's depressed he sits and mulls over what a mistake it was coming here and I think he blames me as the reason for him being in this situation. He won't let me near him. I can say hello, and sometimes he cracks a little smile...but on the phone yesterday I pushed him to talk and of course, (I knew this would happen but had a very weak moment) he said he should just leave because he was meant to be alone. He also says he doesn't care about me, or the kids, or anything else. Well, I am struggling with how he could treat me this way, but also know it's the depression. Where to draw the line? I am so helpless right now...I love him beyond measure. I would forgive him every time he does this I guess...and I called the therapist who is still confident he can help us. We are going tomorrow. I also called his brother and made mention for him to give flip a buzz on the phone, he's very wonderful and supportive.

Now, I am wondering...why do I let this guy do this to me? Or is this me being selfish? Maybe he feels the pressure from me to perform and make money, be successful and he feels like a failure? He can be so wonderful and giving, but then turn cold and mean when depressed. I would say this happens every 4-5 months or so, but it has never lasted this long before. He takes St. John's wort but it will be a miracle to get him on a prescription med as he's opposed to it. He will go to therapy, and he did help Ian to school this am, meaning he's not totally disengaged. Whew, this was long...my thanks to anyone who has feedback.

Dana

Margo

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Re: Need help with understanding my marriage
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2007, 01:41:20 PM »
Hello to everyone, I'm a new poster. I'm married for almost a year coming up June 3rd. This is a second marriage for me and I have two children from a prior marriage. I am in shock, again, because my husband is very depressed and telling me, again, he wants to leave. I have such a deep hurt right now and I don't think I'm processing things well enough -- can you give me some feedback?

I met my husband on the internet, not online dating, but on a message board. We hit it off immediately and I flew across the country to meet him. We did fall in love and it was very quick and passionate, I know, not a very well thought out thing. He moved here three months after we met, another shocker, but we felt so strongly about the relationship - and as you may know, that feeling of love can be very blinding. We both have a history of mood disorders. I have bipolar 2, but it's well controlled (I actually work in the mental health field as an RN and am well aware) -- my husband, we'll call him 'flip' has also struggled with depression and it runs very deep in both of our families. OUr history- my dad was bipolar and I grew up with him leaving all the time, I had no stability but had some strong supports in my family - dad is now treated and a successful therapist. Mom also has depression and long relationship history. For flip, his dad left his four siblings and mom for another women, that relationship didn't work, but then got help for alcoholism. His mom was depressed and very withdrawn and emotionally abusive, not horribly so, but not functional. There was no nurturing for him as she had two jobs and basically he raised himself. He tried committing suicide, I know it sounds incredulous, but he hung himself at the age of 7. He had a wild childhood but eventually recovered enough to own his own business in fixing cars...and then sought therapy. He became very dedicated to meditation and rarely drank or indulged in anything. He basically lived a long his whole life until I caught up with him at age 42. He's had relationships, but also from what he's said they never lasted longer than a year, and a few times he's left in a cruel manner. He once cheated on someone he loved but then stated it pained him for years. He did cry about it when he told me. (this is important for later- read on-) He had found solace in himself and being by himself. He knows he has mood problems, but when he was by himself he could manage it much better. His pattern has always been to not get too close, and run when he feels overwhelmed - this usually entails him becoming super critical (like his mom was to him) of the other person. He has OCD characteristics and cannot tolerate things out of place or any kind of disorganization. On that same thread, he's been a wonderful stability to the family and his ideas have helped make a lot of improvements which were needed for survival even. But I know it's been difficult for him each time he sees food go to waste or something broken because of carelessness. He grew up poor and deals with a lot of feelings around being frugal. I am the opposite, but none of this seemed to matter, and my love for him has lead me to try and meet him to where he can feel comfortable. I have made changes from his suggestions in effort to blend our lives and make compromise. Usually he is very loving and kind, and dedicated to the children - one who is bipolar and can be a nightmare at times...but we are both well equiped normally and he usually copes very well and has been a strength for us. This is why it's so shocking! We have many same interests and have good philosophies on love, spirituality and emotional health - although we do have trouble with moods from time to time. We don't really fight, we talk, and our therapist told us in the beggining we have a great relationship. We go to therapy with my son, and we go as a couple, because I realized a few years ago when he moved here that it would be best for all of us. Actually, we had been going only for my son...but a few months ago we started going as a couple. Now, after he moved here he had a period of shock where he became depressed and totally withdrew from me, and since then he does this from time to time, but always comes out of it. He says he doesn't know if he loves me anymore, and my reaction is to become hysterical. That is my end of the deal. In my last marriage I never saw how this affected my ex, who lost his career as an airline mechanic once the airlines went bust and they shipped all the jobs overseas. Our family suffered, we were both depressed and we separated. I always blamed his depression, but the therapist has shown me that my reactivity, my pushiness in trying to 'fix' everything has been making things worse. This anxiety that I have is a hard habit to break! I think of as a child, moving every year, never knowing if dad would be home at night or not...or if he'd end up in the hospital. I'm sure I have some PTSD from that and have a hard time not reacting. Anyway, Flip lost his job, he was working from home after he told his boss he was moving here a few years back and his boss let him stay on. He had a good job as a transmission consultant, very successful. He lost this job last year, and he recovered okay from it. But he couldn't find the same kind of job. He does not, and is adamant about this, he won't work on cars. He wore a suit to his last job and identifies with that type of person and success. But, he has no degree...tons of talent, but no degree. He got a job selling cars, and I was very anxious in the beginning about this - he has trouble forgiving me for putting that pressure on him. He knows how important it is to be a wage earner and no one wants to lose that power. I am not that nagging, but I try and talk with him about the future. He is so sensitive about this, he's very private, and he also has a very hard time trusting anyone. He most likely has self esteem issues that run very deep. Well, he lost his job again, selling cars. He didn't sell a car for over a month and each week he became more and more depressed. He has never not been successful before and he is a very proud man. He took another job in sales a few weeks ago and a neighboring dealership, hoping they had more traffic...but last Sat. he came home upset he didn't sell a car. On Sunday I watched him slip into a deep depression. Nothing happened really, we had a good morning, were going to ride bikes along the river path. I did what I had been told to do. I left him alone and briefly gave him words of support. He got worse on Monday. In the morning I tried to ask him, I guess I was pushing him to talk and he started yelling and left abruptly. I left him alone that day and tried to stay positive. Tuesday I became very anxious and decided to call him, hoping the fog had lifted. I know that when he's depressed he sits and mulls over what a mistake it was coming here and I think he blames me as the reason for him being in this situation. He won't let me near him. I can say hello, and sometimes he cracks a little smile...but on the phone yesterday I pushed him to talk and of course, (I knew this would happen but had a very weak moment) he said he should just leave because he was meant to be alone. He also says he doesn't care about me, or the kids, or anything else. Well, I am struggling with how he could treat me this way, but also know it's the depression. Where to draw the line? I am so helpless right now...I love him beyond measure. I would forgive him every time he does this I guess...and I called the therapist who is still confident he can help us. We are going tomorrow. I also called his brother and made mention for him to give flip a buzz on the phone, he's very wonderful and supportive.

Now, I am wondering...why do I let this guy do this to me? Or is this me being selfish? Maybe he feels the pressure from me to perform and make money, be successful and he feels like a failure? He can be so wonderful and giving, but then turn cold and mean when depressed. I would say this happens every 4-5 months or so, but it has never lasted this long before. He takes St. John's wort but it will be a miracle to get him on a prescription med as he's opposed to it. He will go to therapy, and he did help Ian to school this am, meaning he's not totally disengaged. Whew, this was long...my thanks to anyone who has feedback.

Dana

Wow... that was a lot of information and I hope writing and going over it helped you get some clarity over the situation.  I know that when it's me dealing with such huge issues...... I can't think straight bc everything's so close.... our faces are pushed up against the glass and we can't see.

I'll share some observations...... from where I sit. That wonderful feeling of passion and irresistable attraction you experienced with Flip hints to me that you two have childhood issues that draw you together.  I forget what book I read this in but it comes to mind about having compatable injuries:  "your childhood injuries have a marriage... and you bleed."  Or something to that affect.
I've found that when I'm in a relationship with very high highs..... there are corresponding lows. 

Second...... you have to fight becoming overwhelmed and find a way to deal with your anxiety so you don't become hysterical.  No matter what comes to pass with Flip..... your children depend on you and you have to realize that you are enough.  Your family will be fine if Flip goes away.  Home is where the mommy is and no one can take that away from you.  Calm yourself.  Flip leaving doesn't mean you will die it means that you will make adjustments and learn to live without him, just like you did after your first divorce.  You don't know what will happen so don't freak yourself out about tomorrow.  Keep your mind right where your feet are, in the here and now. 

Sit down with a pen and paper and make two columns.  One should be titled Pro's.  The other Con's.  Now...... sit down and take stock of the truth in your relationship.  Write it all down.  I think you can do a good job of being honest, from what your post says about you and your ability to see what's what.  Now..... are the bones of your relationship strong or are they weak?  Is the relationship built of sturdy stuff or is it draining and critical and defeating for you on a basic level? 

What does your therapist say about your relationship with this man?  What was your son in therapy for?

I understand you're in pain and terrible anxiety. I'm so sorry this is happening to you and I'd like to help you find more serenity while you're dealing with this. 

Try this:  Write when you're most upset.... scream on that paper!  Write it out.  Re read it then write some more.  Distill it down and read it again.  Write some more.  Things should become more clear to you after you've put your truth on paper.  This has helped me through terrible times..... and it always makes me feel better. 
Good Luck, Margo
 

wellthen

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Re: Need help with understanding my marriage
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2007, 02:42:37 PM »
Thank you, Margo, for your thoughtful response.

I like your feedback and am working very hard at trying to feel comfortable with myself enough to believe that I will survive and things will be alright. In a way, I think that's his point anyhow, I can be dependent on him and our relationship (as it's a very fun thing to do) but as a man he needs time to detach and I try and give him that. I do think there is a possibility that when I give him the space he needs he will be more willing to talk and to increase the therapy sessions. Being a bachelor his whole life, it must be tough to make that transition to instant family.

My son has Bipolar I, a more serious form as it seems to affect the male gender in my family line with more intensity. He is a challenge as he has some serious emotional disabilities, which does put strain on the marriage. He does have a very loving supportive dad, however, and we have a lot of support in the community as well.

My therapist told me last night that he doesn't think flip will leave, that he couldn't be certain, but his instinct is that he loves me and we have a good marriage that can be helped. I had a good morning (I did take the day off work) and spent time talking with my mom and good friend. I will lean on them for now and I feel more confident and have a plan today. I will take the kids rollerskating like we always do, I'll give him the option to come, but smile and go on with things if he declines. Tomorrow we can see the therapist, and his brother will call tomorrow as well. I have hope, but am guarded enough to not let it set me back. I can and will do this! You pointed out some key things about our childhoods, yes, and also about the list. Very good advice and I am going to do this. I will let you know how it pans out. I will also scream 'on paper'.  :)

poetprose

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Re: Need help with understanding my marriage
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2007, 03:26:44 PM »
>>and I called the therapist who is still confident he can help us. We are going tomorrow. I also called his brother and made mention for him to give flip a buzz on the phone, he's very wonderful and supportive. <<<<



wow..... it seems to me that you and your partner are in good hands.... TRUST that!!

 Picture this visual:-)

You and your partner are crossing a river , holding hands and there is a cheerleader , an instructer on the other side helping you, sure there might be a few rocks on the bottom, here and there, and your sweety has just stepped on one, and he is reacting to it..
thats ok, expect this.....  but remember you are still both crossing the river......  so even if there is a few twigs or rocks or whatever
on the bottom of the river , which you may encounter in order to get to the other side....   at least you both are on the right path

also you can not rush this journey across the river... the current has it's own time and rhythm.... take a breath, and relax and continue on.......  :-))

does that make sense?

axa

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Re: Need help with understanding my marriage
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2007, 05:45:45 AM »
Dana,

Reading your post what pressed a button for me was "its so much about him".  Also, when you said your T said he won't leave... another big button presser for me.

I was terrified that XN would leave and put up with all sorts of abuse/mood swings/punishment etc just so he would stay.  He is gone now and I am feeling better than I have for a long time.  I do not know what is the best thing for you to do but one thing I have learned is that when the spotlight is on another all the time you are not looking after yourself.

Please take care of yourself, you are working and dealing with his mood disorders, taking care of your family.... bells are ringing for me.

Keep posting

axa

Hopalong

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Re: Need help with understanding my marriage
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2007, 08:42:10 AM »
Hi Dana,
I hear your fear and I understand...
that dependency makes you more anxious and clutching, which to a man who feels overwhelmed, is like gasoline on a fire.

You can't stage-manage this complicated life of yours, you can only live it authentically.

I believe if you work your hardest on confronting your emotional dependency, you will be free and healthy, married or not.
I am glad you have a good therapist, but I am always reluctant to accept their optimistic predictions.

I'd say focus NOT on him, as Axa says, but on your own sense of self. Your own feelings of dependency.
You must build your inner self, you must face the void and imagine the other side.

I recommend this book until people get sick of it, but: When Things Fall Apart, by Pema Chodron. It's core stuff about your (and my) core stuff. I hope it could help you.

Glad you're here, this is such a good place for support.

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Margo

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Re: Need help with understanding my marriage
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 07:46:25 AM »
Dana,

 I do not know what is the best thing for you to do but one thing I have learned is that when the spotlight is on another all the time you are not looking after yourself.

Please take care of yourself, you are working and dealing with his mood disorders, taking care of your family.... bells are ringing for me.

Keep posting

axa


Between her children and her husband.....  I do wonder how much time and effort are being spent on caring for herself.  Margo