"N's don't get it, with apologies"

[debkor]

Izzy,

Thinking about what you are saying with the apologies.  My ex would say something or be dreaming up something that he thought may take place in reality.  I don't know why but if they are thinking something for some reason they think it will happen.
Not to this extreme but something like this.  Today I will win the Lotto then I will buy this and that. ( Me,) would be nice but lets figure out how you are going to pay this or that without winning. (Him) No, no I am going to win.  Me OK shaduup now and get real.  (Me) we will pay this I'll write the check (Him) you will owe me an apology when I do win the lotto.
Now he doesn't win and nothing is said but if he were to win I have no doubt in my mind that before he became hysterical with happiness he would look at the numbers Scream I won then say YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY.

I would not even think of that but they DO! Not only would I have to apologize for thinking he would not win the lotto, I would have to apologize for writing the check, doubting him and the State that they were going to pick his numbers.  Then I would have to apologize for the tone in my voice the facial expression I had.
Then I would have to go through him telling everyone that I doubted the win and how I owed him an apology as he was writing checks for new cars, vacations, houses, etc that apology would always be part of his conversation to sales people and probably on the 5 O'clock news.


It would start:  And here is the 150 mil dollar winner.  How do you feel.  What to have to say about this great win.

Well first I'd like to say Boy! Did Deb owe me a big apology!! then blah blah,
It would go on and on.


I don't know Izzy why they are so intense on this. Maybe they feel so bad about themselves that they need us to be wrong about everything to make them feel right.
Maybe if they were to accept the apology they would turn to dust and blow away because they are so use to being angry they would not know how to relate. 
I think we take the blows for other issues they are dealing with also.  Harm others caused we take the heat for. 
When we apologize (holy hell) breaks loose and they want more from us to make up what they did not get from other people who causes harm in their lives. 
We are the #1 target at this point. They need us to be wrong for their wrong doing because they still cannot face themselves with their own downfalls.
Reminds me of what you say when your a kid.  I'm the rubber your the glue everything bounces off me and sticks to you.

Deb

[Ami]

[We are the #1 target at this point. They need us to be wrong for their wrong doing because they still cannot face themselves with their own downfalls.
Reminds me of what you say when your a kid.  I'm the rubber your the glue everything bounces off me and sticks to you.


Dear Deb,
   This one sentence says it all. So many books have been written in thousands of words,but it is this one sentence that is the core,IMO                                       Love Ami

[Stormchild]

I have a NPD file where I save articles of interest--I'm sure we all do!! OR a fridge full!! This is rather sarcastic--but true --and funny--from the "bitch rant" site I think!!! You guys don't hear from me much as I don't type --But I'm here every day and feel close to many of you--Hi.

How NOT to Apologize when you have Seriously Fucked Up.
by Annesthesia

1.) Apologize in email. Hey, why should you actually have to FACE the person you harmed and DEAL with the real consequences of your actions - like the fact that they might still be hurt and upset? It's so much easier to do it from a distance - that way you can go around telling everyone how you made all this EFFORT to rectify things. If questioned on this, you can fall back on your old excuses about how the other person is just too scary to face in person. (People you have betrayed aren't usually very compliant). Ignore the fact that this avoidance is completely contradicting any statements you might make about "taking responsibility" for your behavior (see below).

2.) Make sure the "confession", er, apology comes MONTHS or years after the incident. It's just too much work to actually own up immediately afterwards. Let's face it, you're not after any real resolution, and you are not offering any kind of restitution - you are looking to assuage your guilty conscience and buy absolution, and, if you play your cards right, you can get attention for your act of "bravery" in coming forward. If it's absolution you are looking for, why not join the Catholic church instead?
"Powerful and sneaky people use apologies as end runs around repentance. They betray a trust; and, when they have been found out, they say they are sorry for "mistakes in judgment". They smile through their oily apologies when their crime calls for quakes of repentance. They get by only because we have lost our sense of the difference between repentance for wrong and apologies for bungling.... We should not let each other get away with it. A deep and unfair hurt is more than a mere faux pas. We cannot put up with everything from everyone; some things are intolerable. When someone hurts us deeply and unfairly [deliberately], an apology will not do the job; it only trivializes a wrong that should not be trifled with."
-- Lewis B. Smedes, "Forgive and Forget"

3.) Use generic sweeping statements, so that you don't have to own up to, or deal with any specifics. This is a great way to avoid any REAL acknowledgement for the stunts you have pulled, while giving the appearance of sincerity. As Dr. Phil (C. McGraw) says:
"Acknowledgement is a no-kidding, unvarnished, bottom-line, truthful confrontation with yourself about what you are doing or not doing, or what you are putting up with in your life that is destructive. It's not some pious, phoney-baloney, half-hearted rendition of what you think they want to hear. Nor is it a watered-down, politically correct 'confession' that you think will buy you closure at the expense of truth. I mean brutal reality: slapping yourself in the face and admitting what you are doing to screw up your life. This also means admitting that you are getting payoffs for what you're doing, however sick or subtle those payoffs are."
And God knows, real acknowledgement and acceptance of responsibility is not what you were after or you wouldn't have apologized in email in the first place.

4.) Try to evoke sympathy for yourself as part of the apology. Use worn-out lines like "It may not mean much to you now...". Thank the person for their past "support" of you in your (largely self-inflicted) trials and tribulations as a not-so-subtle reminder of how "rough" things have been for you. You can also use this as a way to look magnanimous and introspective while avoiding taking any real action. Whine about how you are finally working on your "issues" (never mind that you have been saying the same thing for years), as if that is supposed to mean something real. Avoid any discussion about what you are doing *specifically* to work on those issues. After all, (despite your previous litany of lies) the person you are apologizing to should trust that you really mean what you say this time, right? Talk about how you are finally accepting responsibility for the consequences of your behavior, and then avoid making any effort to talk to the other person face to face. Talk about how you miss the fun you had with the other person (carefully avoiding any mention of the fun you had at that person's expense at the same time). See if there is still a chain left to be yanked. Remember, this is all about assuaging your conscience and repairing your damaged image - not about doing real work or genuine caring for the other person, but nobody else needs to know that. With a little careful manipulation, you can use this apology to get sympathy and attention from other people as well.

5.) Don't give any reasons about why you have suddenly decided to extend this tremendous effort (writing an email) after so much time has passed. It is equally important that you avoid replying to any questions they might ask about specifics. Remember, this isn't really about making amends, it's about making yourself feel better.
 
6.) Expect instant redemption and forgiveness. Remember, no matter what you have done, a few words are supposed to magically wipe away all the pain of the past with no further work required by you. Now that you have made a token gesture, the other person should just "forgive and forget" so that you find it easier to sleep at night.

7.) Get upset when your trite "olive branch" isn't received with warmth and acceptance. Go whining to whomever will listen, about how you made all this *EFFORT*, and how *HARD* it was for you to take that step (what with all your issues, and all), and how it was REJECTED because that awful person actually expected you to DO SOMETHING REAL. After all, you have ISSUES and such, and that means you should be exempted from behaving in a manner congruent to your words, and everyone should coddle you and praise even the smallest effort on your part.

8.) Take no further action. Use pat phrases like, "I'm doing my best to take responsibility for the consequences of my behavior", but don't actually DO anything beyond sending the email. It plays well, and you can always use that "doing my best" as your cop-out when you don't actually follow-through - it wasn't a REAL commitment to change, it was a "best-effort", and your emailed apology was a fine demonstration of how good THAT is. I can't stress enough how important it is that you don't reply to any questions the other person might have about your email, especially ones that ask "why now?", "what specifically do you acknowledge was inappropriate?" and "what specifically you are doing to take responsibility?". After all, you don't owe them any explanation. Like I said, this isn't about doing anything for *them*, it's all about YOU. Indicate in your original apology that you still have some of the other person's belongings, but don't actually make any effort to RETURN them, or contact the other person in any way. After all, once you've made your apology, you can wash your hands of the whole messy affair and wipe your conscience clean without having to dirty yourself with uncomfortable things like integrity, sincerity, action or actually facing the person you harmed.

Birdy, this is dynamite. The woman who wrote this sees through all the bullcrap, all the phoniness, and knows exactly what's going on when this nonsense is happening.

You said you don't type, so I hope you won't mind if I put this up on the What Helps? Thread with full credit to you for finding and sharing it. It's a very very useful reference, I think we could use it in the "library"

Wow. This is simply amazing. She doesn't miss one bit of it, it's all there, every twist and turn. Thank you for bringing this here.

[Amy]

An interesting thread.  I'd like to contribute.

Ns don't get it because, in their minds, they are never wrong.  Anything they do is justified because they are the center of the universe.  I learned a long time ago that its not about me, in fact it has almost nothing to do with me.  If you get in their way, or have something they want, or can do something they want done, then you are the focus of their attention, whether it be through flattery or outright attack.  If you don't fall into any of the above categories, you simply don't exist.
In other words, we only exist in relation to what they want.

Think of it as some cheesy monster movie.  The wolfman doesn't have anything against the guy he mauls.  And the guy who is mauled didn't do anything to deserve it.  He was in the monster's path so he got mauled.

I have chosen to have no contact with the Ns in my life.  I need the space to recover and to nurture the little kid in me who never got love.  Maybe I'll get to a place where I can interract with them and still feel good, though I doubt it.

As for apologies...

No communication from an N is genuine, its all a manupulation.  Demanding an apology (and then insisting on another, better one) is just another way of staying in control.

[birdy750]

Here is the site------http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/manip.shtml--------The article "So you think you're so Special" is one of my favorites!!! I read there especially when I need a dose of that--"I am Woman, hear me Roar"---kindof feeling--or a good laugh!!!

[debkor]

Ami,

I don't know but from what I can make out from being around two Ns in my life.  My husband and a friend.  I think and this is  just me that they are very aware they are doing wrong THEY KNOW IT but do it anyway.  They get some kind of Power High off it.  They plan it.  If everthing is going well they can't stand it they  need to f**k it up.  They do not know *normal*( so when it really is) it is not to them.   They are compelled to do this.  If they are not causing harm or thinking others are causing harm to them then they are not living (as the only way they ever knew how).  They need to pull it off, or keep it secret, get you before you get them, its a doggie dog world, you don't get things you take them, either you step on people or they will step on you. This at least for me is how the two people I was close to thought and acted on.
And they even had people with certain roles, kids will be used this way, friends this way, job that way, They always had a plan with everyone. My, my talk about wearing all kinds of hats but theirs was always some kind of motive to self serve them even if they had to mentally beat it out of you.  They are very talented at turning people against each other to where no one knows who started the war in the first place but somehow they are always in the background, the injured party, my ass. But they do find people to nurture them sometimes the people we love the most,children,parents, sisters, brothers and there is nothing we can do about it but step out.

Because I did not think or agree with their way of thinking they tried to punish me for having my own thoughts, mind and life.  They did everything to sabotage me.  They went to extremes to hurt me watch me in pain. They bought other (innocent people into it to try to punish me through them when they couldn't get to me by themselves).  They seen they were losing control of working my emotions and went berserk trying to gain back control. Like that song, They smile in your face all the time they want to take your place, the back stabbers,  yes they are.

When I finally figured this out and what they were trying to do I was very calm and let them knock themselves out.

Even if you want to punch them right in their faces and I have felt like that many of times, I showed no emotion.  I did not react as hard as it freaking was not too and then they finally moved on to other supply.

But I do feel they know it's wrong that is who they are that is how they live. To them being alive is causing harm, pain is life to them maybe that is the only way they can feel, sad as it may be.  Like when they see the results of such trauma and pain others are going through it's a little pinch to them, shew look I'm still alive and being noticed. When they can't cause pain or hurt anymore then they are not feeling alive and that is when they move on for someone else to remind them they are alive through the new pain they cause to the new people.   I dunno maybe I'm wrong but this is how I think it may be. But who really knows what goes on in their heads.  Why they do the things they do.  Just don't know.

Love
Deb

[Hopalong]

CB...

Yuggh. Sounds like NH and his parents were in a never-ending drama.

Hops

[debkor]

CB,

One thing I do not miss among other things, Drama.

Love
Deb

[Ami]

Think of it as some cheesy monster movie.  The wolfman doesn't have anything against the guy he mauls.  And the guy who is mauled didn't do anything to deserve it.  He was in the monster's path so he got mauled.]
 


Dear Amy
    Mind Blowing .! How true. I sold my gut,my core, my dreams,integrity, hopes and esteem for some wolfman.                                                                                     Love and Hugs       Ami

[WRITE]

Ns don't get it because, in their minds, they are never wrong. 

never wrong and always wrong...on the surface pretending to be superior covers underneath insecurity and self-loathing.

I have found it all easier to live with since I saw that in the end he suffers more than I do, for at least I can recover....

“A man can never hope to be more than he is if he is not first honest about what he isn’t.”
~poet and writer Don Williams Jr.

[reallyME]

I loved all of your posting, but have limited time to only reply to what jumped out at me:


Dandylife: I've heard a million times "I'm sorry BUT you...." or "I'm sorry if I...." etc. etc.


>>>>YEP...the X's in my life always had a "but you" or "but if you wouldn't"  or "but because you" after their NOT I'm sorry, but I APOLOGIZE.  I was always made to feel like I caused X to act a certain way.  Either I didn't behave 'normal" enough, wanting to adorn myself outwardly to represent them well, or else I spoke "out of turn" to someone they didn't like, or I didn't appreciate someone they decided they DID like...it was always basically, if I didn't let them decide how I acted, spoke, sang, danced, existed, then "i'm sorry I got angry, but you wouldn't "jump through my hoops" 

(interesting note from the Bible here...there is a verse about "we played our pipes but you wouldn't dance")  I always wondered about the context of that, and is it talking about controllers?  Most likely it is.


Dandylife: The other thing that's very on the mark in Write's post is the part about the N clinging to "being right" or "being seen as right" or "more right". I had that experience just yesterday with an N. (more than once in one day actually.)

>>>>oh yes...x's have to be seen as RIGHT and they want to know, even if you once confronted them, criticized them, had a falling out, that you now have "come to your senses" and "understand" "why I did what I did"  grrrrrrrrrr.  even if what they did was unwarranted, punishing, cruel and just plain evil...it's your job to know that they certainly did it in "your best interest" and of course "anyone" would have done the same.  After all, they are the one who has "always been there for you."  They were the one who "picked you up when you were nothing more than garbage from your last relationship"  and of course "after all they've done for you" now, do you REALLY THINK they said/did that to HURT YOU?  come come now."

Sorry, but it's one of those things that you either have to laugh at or cry, because it's such a pathetic situation.  X's really can't handle the idea that you might not think as highly of them as you used to.  It's a pain to them that is worse than death.

~Rm